Today, I come clean.

[UlrichWolf]

I've had it. Can't take it no more.

 

I'm sure you have all noticed some friction, or animosity, or just plain distaste between Burton, and myself. I've been sitting on this for a while, and today, I'm airing the dirty laundry.

 

As some of you may recall, Burton, his wife, and myself were responsible for putting together one of the larger National Meets, Starquest Nationals 2007, held in Grand Rapids, MI.

 

After the meet, there was some initial animosity over the fact that when I negotiated the lodging, I negotiated in for myself a free hotel room. Looking back on it, I certainly do not regret doing it, as I take a lot of time and effort putting these things together, and after all, I don't see a dime of profit from the registrations, as this is really not about making money. But considering that my house had just been burglarized, and I was pretty much wiped out, it was the only way I could make the meet happen for me. Even still, I needed a passenger to split fuel costs with.

 

Burton and his wife especially have held this grudge for three years now, even though I attempted to make amends for the situation by calling in a personal marker, and getting Burton the exact car he asked from a friend of mine at a very friendly price.

 

Never mind the fact that they lived about 6 miles away, and could have simply driven home instead of staying in the hotel.

 

I had figured they got over this, as I don't hold grudges anyway, even with Kate posting some unfavorable things about me. When they moved to Texas, they called me on the phone for help a couple of times, and I gladly helped them out as I could. Everything went fine until StarQuest Nationals 2009.

 

Of course, in the interim, Kate and Mark had been made admins at 26Liter, apparently learning how to be stuck up under the expert tutelage of Gary. After SQN 2009, they saw it fit to publicly slander me at Gary's site, with Gary's assistance, of course. There were a few folks to inquire about it, of course, they all got the same answer. I was good at parking cars, I was being butthurt, blah-blah-blah. Over the last year, this has translated into Burton second-guessing me at every opportunity, and just generally being a dickhead.

 

I'm tired of it. It's not that I really care, I'm just tired of the Burtons being pricks, and not settling their scores like honest people. Got a problem? Come talk to me, we will fix it.

 

As for any more National Meets, thanks to Burtons, I am very seriously considering never doing another one again. And it is a true shame, because A LOT of you came up to me, shook my hand, and told me what a great time you had, which is all I ever cared about in the first place. I'm not made of money to donate to this board, but I know how to have a good time, and I have tried very hard to translate that into a great time to be had for all, and if anyone now knows what a pain setting up a National Meet can be, it's Scotty Gibb.

 

This is certain to be a rather inflammatory post, because I anticipate Burtons to come along, and say what a crook, and lazy fool I am, and that's fine. Just remember you heard it here first, and also, I have no motivation to lie to anyone about any of this. If I did, I sure wouldn't be writing this now. However, this crap's gone on long enough, and I've got too much time and effort into this to let some jackass walk all over me.

 

Of course, if it gets to be too much trouble, my problem can be solved for around $45. I'll put the car on AutoTrader, and buy something else. Because, honestly, the car isn't that great. It's old, it's cramped, it's not that fast. What made the car great was the owner's association, and somewhere along the line, I think some people forgot that.

 

Tim

[jahjah]

I definitely noticed somethin going on...

 

Well i'd hate to see ya leave man, just move down here to Ga or something, don't leave the family!

[chiplee]

http://www.animosity-guild.net/images/animosity_welcome.jpg

Well get it off your chest then. Silent animosity is poison. What could be solved in one quick argument can drag on for years if people don't just get on with it.

Edited July 5, 2010 by chiplee

[IntercooledFlatty]

$45. I'll put the car on AutoTrader, and buy something else. Because, honestly, the car isn't that great. It's old, it's cramped, it's not that fast. What made the car great was the owner's association, and somewhere along the line, I think some people forgot that.

 

 

 

ill take it for $45 when do you want me to come get it.....

[SOTTY]

Thanks for the props man and it aint been easy, finding the right affordable venue being the toughest challenge of them all .

Its been like a second full time job on top of the very full time job i already have.

Lucky for me ive been blessed with the help of a few great people in the background who graciously stepped up to the plate to help a brutha out and for that i'm oh so grateful.

Setting these meets up is WORK !!! , i found that out the hard way , anyway i got work to do on this , it never ends and you two kiss and make up , life is to damn short.

Edited July 5, 2010 by scottygibb

[Indiana]

People are people doesn't matter what car they drive and if you own other cars or go to other meets this is the same everywhere but the older the cars are the more friendly people are and I've been going to car shows for over 35 years and been a judge for over 25 of those. Antique car owners are picky but they are very open and these cars some have their secrets and yes younger people can seem like they aren't nice or are stuck up but after you know them sometimes you just get the wrong impression. Most are just too shy to talk and this is why people stay in little circles and you've seen that. Yes its the car that got them all in the same place, it is cramped and they aren't perfect cars no matter what you do to them.

 

I was one of those first people on 26liter and I posted all the truck conversion pictures on there until he tried to get me in the middle of some crap with Chad and Kelly that I wanted no part of so I made my own site. I do not know Gary or anything about him.

 

I know Scotty from when he used to live up in Brownsburg, IN and hopefully his life slowed down.

 

People make GPs all the time and get free cap so who cares if you got a free room then imo good for you. No that's not easy someone has to do it but SQ owners some are cheapasses so 45.00 spread 40 ways I guess is a big deal. Next time just buy them all a Coke and tell them to get over it.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Indiana

[RichyQuest87]

I feel ya Tim. One of the deciding factors to part my car, in spite of how attached I was, was the people here. Can't say I can really explain it, but over the past years, I've noticed a change in the attitude around here.

[AutoBodyGod]

ill take it for $45 when do you want me to come get it.....

 

 

It costs $45 dollars to post a car on AutoTrader for 1 month, I think thats what he's trying to say.

[Komeuppance]

I saw the dislike after the 2009 meet... but I didn't get it at all. I didn't bother to inquire because it was very childish.

 

I know I'd never "get out of the scene" just because a few people's ignorance. I bought the car because it's what I wanted, not because it "granted me access" into a "club". Cars don't make the man.

 

-Robert

[IntercooledFlatty]

It costs $45 dollars to post a car on AutoTrader for 1 month, I think thats what he's trying to say.

 

thank you for pointing that out to me

[UlrichWolf]

I definitely noticed somethin going on...

 

Well i'd hate to see ya leave man, just move down here to Ga or something, don't leave the family!

 

Well, honestly, I'm not out to leave, I want to solve this conundrum, or at least air it out, because like I said, I have a lot of time invested here.

 

 

http://www.animosity-guild.net/images/animosity_welcome.jpg

Well get it off your chest then. Silent animosity is poison. What could be solved in one quick argument can drag on for years if people don't just get on with it.

 

We'll soon see.

 

 

Thanks for the props man and it aint been easy, finding the right affordable venue being the toughest challenge of them all .

Its been like a second full time job on top of the very full time job i already have.

Lucky for me ive been blessed with the help of a few great people in the background who graciously stepped up to the plate to help a brutha out and for that i'm oh so grateful.

Setting these meets up is WORK !!! , i found that out the hard way , anyway i got work to do on this , it never ends and you two kiss and make up , life is to damn short.

 

Yes, and you deserve your due props. There's been several before you that said they would do it, and just flat out never even got started. Now, you've done it, and with a few stumbling blocks along the way, no less. I grant you, you did a few things NOT the way I would have, but I have to keep telling myself that it's not my bag this time, and still it's fine, because you finished what you started. I have nothing but respect for that.

 

 

People are people doesn't matter what car they drive and if you own other cars or go to other meets this is the same everywhere but the older the cars are the more friendly people are and I've been going to car shows for over 35 years and been a judge for over 25 of those. Antique car owners are picky but they are very open and these cars some have their secrets and yes younger people can seem like they aren't nice or are stuck up but after you know them sometimes you just get the wrong impression. Most are just too shy to talk and this is why people stay in little circles and you've seen that. Yes its the car that got them all in the same place, it is cramped and they aren't perfect cars no matter what you do to them.

 

I was one of those first people on 26liter and I posted all the truck conversion pictures on there until he tried to get me in the middle of some crap with Chad and Kelly that I wanted no part of so I made my own site. I do not know Gary or anything about him.

 

I know Scotty from when he used to live up in Brownsburg, IN and hopefully his life slowed down.

 

People make GPs all the time and get free cap so who cares if you got a free room then imo good for you. No that's not easy someone has to do it but SQ owners some are cheapasses so 45.00 spread 40 ways I guess is a big deal. Next time just buy them all a Coke and tell them to get over it.

 

It's nice to see that you and I CAN actually see eye to eye on something.

 

 

I saw the dislike after the 2009 meet... but I didn't get it at all. I didn't bother to inquire because it was very childish.

 

I know I'd never "get out of the scene" just because a few people's ignorance. I bought the car because it's what I wanted, not because it "granted me access" into a "club". Cars don't make the man.

 

-Robert

 

And Robert, that's my point. I can get anything I want. I could go tomorrow, and buy a Corvette if I wanted one bad enough. It's the people, the social aspect that makes this car incredible. It's the camaraderie of owning a offbeat car, and people sticking together to help each other out. I can't get that with a Corvette. There's nothing rare, or special about a Corvette. It is no more special to me than a loaded Caprice Classic.

 

I don't see it as being granted access into a club, I see it as being part of a family. It's a bit different than just that. I don't know, I may not be explaining it right, but there's people on this board that I have known longer than some of the people I associate with now.

 

I treat a lot of members here just as if they were family. Just like with Coke's accident, as soon as I saw it, I got a price on a plane ticket, and was willing to float him that if he needed it. There's members of my own family I would not do that for.

 

Point is, I try hard to be there for people when I can, and I'm tired of the animosity. It's especially upsetting that I tried very hard to do that with Burtons and they still piss in my ear. It's things like that that can take a good member, and make him a very non-caring member. And that's not who I am.

 

Tim

[Tipsysmile]

I bought the car because it's what I wanted, not because it "granted me access" into a "club".

 

Amen!

 

The "Club" is just an added bonus.

 

I don't even know what to say about the the grudge tho, to me its seems kinda childish, (but there is always 2 sides of a story) but I wasnt there so Im not going to comment any further.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Tipsysmile

[Komeuppance]

And Robert, that's my point. I can get anything I want. I could go tomorrow, and buy a Corvette if I wanted one bad enough. It's the people, the social aspect that makes this car incredible. It's the camaraderie of owning a offbeat car, and people sticking together to help each other out. I can't get that with a Corvette. There's nothing rare, or special about a Corvette. It is no more special to me than a loaded Caprice Classic.

 

I don't see it as being granted access into a club, I see it as being part of a family. It's a bit different than just that. I don't know, I may not be explaining it right, but there's people on this board that I have known longer than some of the people I associate with now.

 

I treat a lot of members here just as if they were family. Just like with Coke's accident, as soon as I saw it, I got a price on a plane ticket, and was willing to float him that if he needed it. There's members of my own family I would not do that for.

 

Point is, I try hard to be there for people when I can, and I'm tired of the animosity. It's especially upsetting that I tried very hard to do that with Burtons and they still piss in my ear. It's things like that that can take a good member, and make him a very non-caring member. And that's not who I am.

 

Tim

 

I get what you mean, it just that some stay away from certain cars because they don't want to be associated with others that own the same car. Subarus and Evo's for example. Anyway...

 

You said you'd sell the car "if it's too much trouble", and it seemed the reason was others antagonizing you.

 

I've learned that some people are just the way they are: negative, backstabbing, conniving or are in just a generally bad disposition towards others they feel wronged by. They are on a quest for revenge, no pun intended. You can try to help them, but there's only so much you can do. Don't sacrifice yourself for them if they can't man up. They'll drag you down, all the way down.

 

Don't keep the Starion if it doesn't meet your needs anymore, you'll still be a part of this family. SQ or not.

 

-Robert

[UlrichWolf]

I get what you mean, it just that some stay away from certain cars because they don't want to be associated with others that own the same car. Subarus and Evo's for example. Anyway...

 

You said you'd sell the car "if it's too much trouble", and it seemed the reason was others antagonizing you.

 

I've learned that some people are just the way they are: negative, backstabbing, conniving or are in just a generally bad disposition towards others they feel wronged by. They are on a quest for revenge, no pun intended. You can try to help them, but there's only so much you can do. Don't sacrifice yourself for them if they can't man up. They'll drag you down, all the way down.

 

Don't keep the Starion if it doesn't meet your needs anymore, you'll still be a part of this family. SQ or not.

 

-Robert

 

That's good advice, Robert.

 

But I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. There's still the matter of all the time and effort I have involved here.

 

When I said I might sell the car, that means if I can't air out the dirty laundry and at least help alleviate the issue I might consider it. But let's be real. I consider myself too deep in this to simply walk away. I've got expertise, and I know a lot about the car. It doesn't matter if I keep the car till the earth explodes, or I go buy a Camry tomorrow. I'll probably never stop getting PM's and so forth about this problem or that problem.

 

And that's fine with me. It's the game, and that how it gets played. My reason for writing this is because I want this issue out in the open, I want people to know my end of the story, and they can all understand the underlying issues that brought this about. Maybe, if I'm lucky, it'll effect change.

 

Tim

[boostdquest89]

thank you for pointing that out to me

HAHA!

[Burton]

Well, first things first, Tim, this all you and me. As far as I know, my wife moved past this stuff years ago, and even after everything doesn't hold a grudge against you at all. In fact, if it wasn't for her keeping a leash on me, I would have blown up at you long before 09.

 

I hold a grudge and I'll admit it. I get that way when people I consider good friends either backstab me, disrespect me, or treat me in any other way that "friends" shouldn't treat each other.

 

Sure, you helped me find a good car, something I thanked you for personally many times, as well as publicly on the boards. You've helped me in other ways, as well as myself helping you. That's what friends do. You also did stuff that friends don't do, and that's the problem for me. The hotel thing was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Keep in mind, I was also not in the best financial state having lost my job and trying to get ready to lose lots of what I had and have to start over in another state. And our house was much farther away than 6 miles. It was a 20 minute drive each way in light traffic. Anyway, the bad stuff that happened because of the meet was more than just the hotel room. Some of it doesn't even have to do with the meet planning at all.

 

I can go thru and waste half my day typing all that stuff out if you want, but it's still not gonna change anything or do anything other than makinkg you and possibly even me look bad. No matter what either of us say, the end result will be the same- We still won't like each other. I'll still think you have delusions of granduer, crave admiration of others, and be an exagerator of the highest degree. You'll probably think I'm some self centered pothead who likes to start crap.

 

 

Don't waste your time selling your car. I haven't been coming around here as much the few weeks and that time is getting less and less. And since you seem to get so butthurt so easily, I will make a solid effort not to try and poke at you. Not for you, but so the rest of the community doesn't have to listen to it.

 

If you really want me to air all this stuff out publicly here, I'm cool with that, but I really have better things to do. We can take it to PMs and save everyone else from the drama, but even that will probably get us nowhere.

 

I'm not trying to say you don't do good things for the community- I don't think anybody could say that about either of us. Sometimes I just think you think you're better than you actually are. I'm not talking about you as a SQ owner, but more how I see you overall as a person after my past dealings with you.

 

 

Keep your car, I'll chill since you can't take it.

 

 

Oh, and for the record, I also wanted nothing to do with planning another big meet after planning 07 with you. I got over it and have planned more since then because I wasn't gonna let one bad personal experience ruin it for everyone. I'm sure you'll do the same.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Burton

[UlrichWolf]

I do and I'll admit it. I get that way when people I consider good friends either backstab me, disrespect me, or treat me in any other way that "friends" shouldn't treat each other.

 

For God's sake's man, why? Like I said in the original missive, I figured you had thought I did you wrong over the hotel room thing, and I tried my very best to do right by you. I suppose that's just not enough, is it? What about when your wife called me at work, asking me for help because she needed a nearby AutoZone in a strange city, ( I think the alternator blew in the GA...seems what I recall) and I put off everything to make sure she was OK? Still not enough?

 

The hotel thing was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Anyway, the bad stuff that happened because of the meet was more than just the hotel room.

 

OK, now things are starting to come out. Did you ONCE ever attempt to discuss ANY of it with me beforehand? NO! I will sit here, and swear on a stack of whatever you wish that I had no understanding of any problem beforehand. Anyone who knows me KNOWS that I am always happy to sit down and discuss problems before they come to this point. Besides, everything seemed well and good until Nationals 2009, that's when all this kicked into overdrive. So, if the hotel thing broke the camel's back, why did you continue to accept my offers of help? Simply playing me for a sucker?

 

I'll still think you have delusions of granduer, crave admiration of others, and be an exagerator of the highest degree.

 

I think that's kind of harsh, don't you? As far as craving admiration of others, well, who doesn't? I would think it odd to crave feelings of dislike. Besides, you have to remember, my mouth got bashed in when I was eleven. I didn't have the most popular award in school, so being accepted somewhere is kind of an honor for me.

 

And since you seem to get so butthurt so easily, I will make a solid effort not to try and poke at you.

 

This isn't about me being butthurt, this is about you holding a grudge. I love that term, too. Butthurt. What an impressive way to pass the buck. Man up and do what's right, rather than holding a grudge that is likely only contributing to your stress level.

 

Sometimes I just think you think you're better than you actually are. I'm not talking about you as a SQ owner, but more how I see you overall as a person after my past dealings with you.

 

Honestly, I'm sorry you think that. Because it really is pretty far from the truth. I don't figure myself "better" than anyone here. Interesting tidbit for you. First semester of my high school education, I went to Klein Forest High on the northwest side of Houston. Lots of snobs there. There was enough chin up around there to prove to me that being a common guy was the way to go. I don't consider myself "better", or "above" anyone. After all, I'm one of the few around here that actually knows how to humble themselves and learn from others, which I do, some of it from you.

 

Keep your car, I'll chill since you can't take it.

 

Can't take it? Excuse me? How long has this been going on? One helluva long time, and I'm just now getting irritated to the point that I speak up and say something. Further proof that you are off-base about me.

 

Oh, and for the record, I also wanted nothing to do with planning another big meet after planning 07 with you. I got over it and have planned more since then because I wasn't gonna let one bad personal experience ruin it for everyone. I'm sure you'll do the same.

 

Maybe I will, maybe I won't. But hey, you got through your second meet without a lot of trouble, none of it, I might add, from me. Know why? I let bygones be bygones. You gave me a butt-kicking two times in a row. What? First one wasn't good enough?

 

I'll tell you what. We can do this anyway you wish. I'm not adverse to sorting this out and moving on, but it sounds to me like you are. That's really a shame. I liked you, and up till about a year ago, I thought you liked me. But, you know what? You're holding the cards.

 

You need to make the decision that you can live with. Although I think I already know what it will be, it kind of hurts me to think that you weren't man enough to bring a problem to me, and work it out like a man.

 

Your call.

 

Tim

[Shelby]

ok enought is enought you two can take it out side,, or where ever, but this is very childish,, and Tim no this should not have been brought up at all, it's a privite thing between your guys and does not need to be air'd in front of every one,, all that does is cause hate and discontent , cause this one or that one did not side with me or side'd with him,,

all of which we have already had plenty of http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif

[NotStock88]

http://hondaeasttoledo.info/Erics_crap/Aprilia/bunny_pancake.jpg

 

Hope this helps

Edited July 5, 2010 by NotStock88

[BrazilBoy]

Its a shame that such grudges need to exist we are too few and far between to have such issues.. I myself have gotten into a few arguements with members here but now realize that these aren't civics and we aren't civic owners..It takes a special breed to maintain and keep these cars..That sort should stick together.. I understand Tim being upset and Marks reaction but in reality such hostility holds no merit in the long term,its wasted energy that could be better used elsewhere....I would hate to see either one walk away from these cars or the club..I consider Tim and Mark friends to myself and many members here...I hope you two can work this out in some way..

 

Sincerely Roberto

[UlrichWolf]

ok enought is enought you two can take it out side,, or where ever, but this is very childish,, and Tim no this should not have been brought up at all, it's a privite thing between your guys and does not need to be air'd in front of every one,, all that does is cause hate and discontent , cause this one or that one did not side with me or side'd with him,,

all of which we have already had plenty of http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif

 

I'm sorry you feel that way, but you chose to click on the thread, and you chose to invite yourself in.

 

As far as being childish, I agree, it's completely childish to hold grudges.

 

I refrained from doing ANYTHING about this for a really long time, and I'm at the end with it. EVERYONE here has seen the backlash of this, so I thought everyone here deserved to know what the deal is.

 

Quite frankly, I don't give a frog's fat tail who sides with who. I appreciate your viewpoint, but I have MY way of doing things, because I want results.

 

Thanks for contributing,

Tim

[Burton]

The thing is, my problems with Tim have little to do with these cars or the community. There was some friction over the meet planning and such, but this wouldn't be the first time that friendships were damaged when people got together to plan meets. Basically, I think Tim disrespected me, and he apparently feels I have disrespected him, which I will say I have. None of this is really anybody's business but me and Tim's

 

 

Anyway, does that mean that I can't dislike someone in the community just for the sake of it? We're all a family here, and like many other families, sometimes there are family members who don't get along. They avoid each other at family functions, but sometimes drama bubbles up. Maybe I need to do a better job of just keeping my mouthy shut so as not to piss off grandma. Maybe some of the issues with me and Tim aren't fair either, but is it fair for me to try and force myself to be friends with someone just for the sake of the community?

 

I've got plenty of friends who treat me with the kindness, respect, and honesty that I show them. I really have no time to try and "fix" relationships with people who don't treat me that way. Harsh? Maybe, but I've found most people who are your "friends" that treat you bad a few times will come back and treat you bad a few times more if you let them.

 

 

 

I'm done with this whole thing. Tim, if you want to know anything more on my end you can PM me, which is what you should have done before puting this up anyway.

[JAinsworth]

It is time to take it off-site.

Jimmy