I These Plugs Fouled?

[Killtodie]

I'm really broke right now, that $30 hits the pocket. I saw it for $37 on rockauto, seemed expensive. That rebuilt kit looks like it has a wrong type of TB gasket on it.

 

update on cleaning.

flat sanded with 340, touched up with 0000 steel wool, soaked in a hot bucket with simple green concentrate for 30 minutes

 

 

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/337/24230397.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3301/34203352.jpg

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1390/13536435.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3872/27393314.jpg

 

I hope hot glue aint conductive, dont have my volt meter on me

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7707/70187715.jpg

Edited February 7, 2010 by Killtodie

[Komeuppance]

After you put it back together, the car will be safe to test and drive. I used grey RTV to seal the TB 7 years ago, when I first got the car, as soon as I hit boost it leaked... fuel all over.

 

Anyway, doing stuff right the first time will help eliminate problems during troubleshooting. I still think there is another cause for your car not running, like leaking injectors.

 

-Robert

[Killtodie]

Please explain this leaking injectors. What does that mean, how do I find out if they are and how could this happen to brand new Trilogy Injectors that have less than 1k miles on them

 

mock assembly

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1674/97468210.jpg

 

also, this this right? should it be adjusted either way?

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6681/50585972.jpg

[Technology]

The only way to check for sure is to swap injectors with someone who has a car that runs perfectly on the stockers.

 

Another way for it to flood and not start like you said is if the valve stem seals are broken and leaking oil down the valves and flooring it that way. This happened to Klube when he put in a big cam with roller rockers and all of a sudden had more lift than the stock guides and seals could handle, so they got crushed (all of them).

 

Pop the valve cover off and peer through the valve springs to see if they look crushed. You can tell by the spring around the top of the seal. If it's sitting above the seal and just right on the valve stem, it's done for.

 

My guess though would be bad injectors. I don't know how it would happen on new injectors like that, but I guess stranger things have happened.

 

Good luck.

 

And you should have posted this in VM.

[Killtodie]

I posted it in BS so I could get a quick answer on the spark plugs, mods feel free to move this to the VM section.

 

I had nothing done to the rockers, the head has jet delete, that's about it. I inspected the rockers a while ago and they were stiff with no play.

Guess I can remove the cover and inspect them again.

 

I will call Trilogy Turbo, I assume they are under some sort of warranty, guess I'll buy the TB rebuilt kit as well. So far this is turning into a $100 repair, oil, kit, plugs, filter.

 

 

 

Sometimes next week I will reinstall the TB with new seals, new plugs, check the oil for possible gas in it, inspect the springs as you say, dry out the intake and give her a start. Or whenever I can spare some cash towards this.

 

Thanks for everyone input on this, very helpful

[UlrichWolf]

Considering your shabbily sealed injection mixer, probable coolant and air leak, you have to think, that this MIGHT fix it.

 

Also, not trying to be a real prick, but this car doesn't do well with cheap fixes. Trust me, grasshopper.....I've blown up my fair share of motors learning this the hard way. If you can't pay to fix it..........wait till you can. DO NOT ever do something to "get by". That is only going to guarantee you a larger repair bill.

 

I think you're seeing this now.

 

Tim

[patra_is_here]

at any point did you look into the throttle body and see coolant before you pulled it off?? while the RTV isn't the best, i still don't see how that would be substantial enough to make the car not run. I've driven cars on three cylinders with blown headgaskets.

 

anyhow, i've lost track of the order in which everything happened to your car.

 

i remember it like this

 

1: car was running

2: you did something

3: car wouldnt start or run after that.

 

 

what was the thing you did? you said you changed something right?

[UlrichWolf]

I've driven cars on three cylinders with blown headgaskets.

 

There is quite a substantial difference between a coolant leak into one cylinder, as opposed to being force-fed into all four.

 

Tim

[quikconq]

surly you have had, a ic pipe come loose or pop off???wont run for crap....

its the same thing just at the throttle body,,an air leak

 

now im not sayin that is definitely the problem,,,but i say that could very well be the problem

[Killtodie]

As a refresh, the car was running perfectly fine 2 months ago. The ONLY thing I did was pull the distributor to replace its oring and replace a leaking fuel regulator.

 

The car sat for 2 months before I had someone help me install the dizzy the correct way and attempt to start it.

 

It is possible that the cold weather worsened that RTV seal because it was fine before.

 

Tim, I'm not trying to do a cheap fix, I just wish not to spend so much money on it. If something needs to be replace, I will replace it. had RTV on it only because I coulnt get a gasket in time to when I had the TB replaced. I just want to make sure that I really do need it before I buy it.

 

 

 

Also, at this point I think that the coolant got into the intake when I pulled the TB. We'll see when I try to fire her up again

Edited February 8, 2010 by Killtodie

[patra_is_here]

oh crap. i didn't see any mention to the distributor before. sorry. i guess the real question is how to you know for sure it's timed right??

 

also, a small air leak at the TB from RTV is NOT going to make the car stop running. the amount of air from a slight leak is small in comparison to total air flowed through the TB. just saying.

 

hell, even with my OVCP completely off the car it would still START and run if you kept the throttle opened just right.

[ucw458]

I'm more concerned with that extra O-ring you put on the distributor holding it away from the head. Did that slight misalignment chew up the gear on the distributor? If nothing else it being held away from the head would make it harder to get the correct timing since the gears are helical and pulling out the distributor rotates it.

[Killtodie]

oh crap. i didn't see any mention to the distributor before. sorry. i guess the real question is how to you know for sure it's timed right??

 

Because I marked the position of how the dizzy sat and used a timing light on it by running the starter, its marked. oh, and as I said multiple times before, the engine runs without the injectors plugged in.;

 

ucw458, dont worry about that extra o-ring. It's not being used

Edited February 8, 2010 by Killtodie

[patra_is_here]

ok. well if it runs without the injectors plugged in, then coolant isn't the problem.

 

and i guess spark timing is close enough to get it to run (although setting timing at low RPM with the starter isn't really the best).

 

so if it's flooding out, there's two possibilities.

 

either the injectors are faulty and opening too much and flooding it

 

or

 

the injectors are being told to open too much (MAF or TPS). these cars use both MAF and TPS to calculate engine load. if one of them is reading too high it'll make the injector pulse width too long and flood it out. even though someone says TPS is just to meter throttle changes, you can't calculate load with just ONE sensor

[Indiana]

It did run without them plugged in but it shouldn't after this. To know if they leak just put that back together and connect both fuel lines it doesn't even have to be on the motor just the fuel lines on the upper portion of the throttlebody and you push the injectors in and hold them there then run a jumper wire to the test port on the passenger fender side back to the positive battery cable to activate the fuel pump and if they are leaking internally fuel WILL come out the bottom of them if they are some how stuck from seating. So was fuel laying in the intake manifold when you got the throttlebody off and did it smell like fuel? That throttleplate won't be that far open after the idle motor comes on or the hard stop is adjusted wrong because its just being held open to far right now. You have one part to remove off the upper part of the throttlebody and under that cover is the pulse damper and while its not necessary it even be there it is to make the pump flow pressure changes smooth out but with after market regulator and higher boost pressure its not doing anything anyway you'd ever notice.

 

If you don't have the service manual, here's a link with all the pages from the service manual in pictures so you can see how it goes together just click on the thumbnails and they will enlarge for a full page view and if you get a + symbol over the picture click it again and it enlarges even more:

 

http://www.b2600turb...ction_mixer.htm

Edited February 8, 2010 by Indiana

[patra_is_here]

r u running an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator or stock>?

 

 

also, the photo style and gloves sorta remind me of "professor quest".

[Komeuppance]

It did run without them plugged in but it shouldn't after this. To know if they leak just put that back together and connect both fuel lines it doesn't even have to be on the motor just the fuel lines on the upper portion of the throttlebody and you push the injectors in and hold them there then run a jumper wire to the test port on the passenger fender side back to the positive battery cable to activate the fuel pump and if they are leaking internally fuel WILL come out the bottom of them if they are some how stuck from seating.

 

BE CAREFUL when you do this, get a fuel safe bucket to hold the injectors over to catch any fuel leaks.

 

-Robert

[Killtodie]

There are three places I can get the kit from now, all three are over $36 after shipping, difference is about $3 between each.

 

So, which one is the best? advance auto parts, dad's or rockauto?

 

 

Also, I hear I can hook up a 9v to the injector, connect a tube full of water and watch it spray, that something I can do safely?

Edited February 8, 2010 by Killtodie

[patra_is_here]

do not hook 9v to the injector and spray water through it. don't. do not.

 

you don't yet know you even have any issues with the injector being stuck.

[quikconq]

that isnt water in that clear hose ,,its carb cleaner,,,,and be careful carb cleaner will

eat up a cheap clear hose,,and the pressure will pop off the hose at the injector,,and it burns like fool when the cleanner is sprayed all over your face and eyes

,,and then you feel like an douche bag standin there cant see crap,with burn sensation evrywhere

 

yes it sounds like i know from experience,,it suks,,just heed my warning...

 

also advance auto shouldnt charge you shipping,,unless your ordering online

just go to your nearest store,,on your way to favorite burger joint macdonalds

[patra_is_here]

WHY ARE YOU GUYS TELLING HIM TO DO THIS TO HIS INJECTORS!!!???

 

 

dmyers, when you put your throttle body back together, unplug the injectors and try to start the car. if any gas comes out of the injectors at all when they are unplugged, then your injectors are not closed. otherwise, i wouldn't worry about it yet.

[quikconq]

i think you miss read,,,i told him quite the opposite,and with harmfull side effects

and until the throttle body gets rebuilt,this thread will be goin in circles

[patra_is_here]

i wasn't imply u told him to test em , but someone did! where else would he get a crazy idea!???

 

yeah, put the TB together and then see what happens.

[Killtodie]

I came up with the testing myself. I saw it on the PSQ forums on the testing, I didnt read the details. I figure I test them before we decided that they are leaking.

 

I would definitely like to test them before I try to start it again with new plugs.

 

 

btw, there a link to the procedure for getting codes, also, can I get codes with the TB out?

Edited February 9, 2010 by Killtodie

[Komeuppance]

Haha, his car "ran with BOTH injectors unplugged". Sounds like a fuel leak.

 

Put the TB back together, look down the TB inlet and watch the injectors during cranking, they should be a super fine mist with NO DRIPS at all. You can also have both injectors unplugged, and apply 12v+ to the fuel pump test port and see if any fuel comes out... like Indiana said.

 

-Robert