picking the right turbo

[NotStock88]

I haven't had a chance to use this turbo yet but I have been thinking that my holset hy35 turbo will not spool fast enough for it to be really street-able but I wanted to get others' opinions. (from readiing on dsmtuners.com the holset I have is very close to a 60-1 but I dont know how well those turbos do on our engines)

 

Here is the graph for the holset I have;

HolsetGraph

 

Here are my supporting mods;

walbro fuel pump

Magna MPI

750CC Injectors

Non-Jet Head (port n polish, oversized ss valves, 3 angle valve job, Schneider Valve springs)

Tim C. Screeming Banshee cam

BSE

SFP Header

Tial 38mm external wastegate

3" exhaust

2.5" intercooler piping

evo 8 intercooler

MSD6al BTM

HKS EBC

 

 

What I am really going for is something that has fast spool that will pull hard all the way through the power-band and I think the holset will be laggy to spool. The header I have has a t3 flange so I have to find something that has a t3 turbine housing. These are currently the two other turbos I think I will be most suitable;

 

TD06-17C Syclone turbo (my last turbo that I loved, even on TBI)

17c Graph

 

GT2860RS - dual ball bearing (will get a flange to convert the t25 housing to a t3)

GT2860RS Graph

Edited January 18, 2010 by NotStock88

[lionbull]

I haven't had a chance to use this turbo yet but I have been thinking that my holset hy35 turbo will not spool fast enough for it to be really street-able but I wanted to get others' opinions. (from readiing on dsmtuners.com the holset I have is very close to a 60-1 but I dont know how well those turbos do on our engines)

 

Here is the graph for the holset I have;

HolsetGraph

 

Here are my supporting mods;

walbro fuel pump

Magna MPI

750CC Injectors

Non-Jet Head (port n polish, oversized ss valves, 3 angle valve job, Schneider Valve springs)

Tim C. Screeming Banshee cam

BSE

SFP Header

Tial 38mm external wastegate

3" exhaust

2.5" intercooler piping

evo 8 intercooler

MSD6al BTM

HKS EBC

 

 

What I am really going for is something that has fast spool that will pull hard all the way through the power-band and I think the holset will be laggy to spool. The header I have has a t3 flange so I have to find something that has a t3 turbine housing. These are currently the two other turbos I think I will be most suitable;

 

TD06-17C Syclone turbo (my last turbo that I loved, even on TBI)

17c Graph

 

GT2860RS - dual ball bearing (will get a flange to convert the t25 housing to a t3)

GT2860RS Graph

 

i would get an actual 60-1. the dsmers and honda guys do well with these holsets on the track for all out performance. They can take advantage of the large ar ratio of the holset because these motors get wrung out and continue to make significant(key word) power at very high rpm(7500-9500). No g54b on these boards will do this, i don't care whose. my opinion on the turbo would be a 50 trim,60-1 or the gt2860rs or what ever turbo bluecook(350whp on tbi) is using. You need response on the street and effiency right? some of you will be surprised how quick your cars are on the street compared to "faster cars" that see the the track. opinions will vary but its your money so do your research(its free)

[NotStock88]

I tend to agree. I was reading that this holset turbo I acquired is capable of putting someone in to the 11's - which I dont ever expect nor do I intend to do with my car. I am also thinking that with the exhaust housing being a t3 divided housing 9cm2 it might have decent mid to high end power but I am not giong to be revving to the moon so it will not be the most pleasant on the street.

 

I am in the process of negotiating with someone on getting the GT2860 - anybody have one of these on their quest?

[87starion_in_ma]

for my build (which is very simalar to yours) i got a 60-1 with a .63 a/r. cars not runing yet but i can let you know how it works out.

[dstar88]

 

If you want to sell that turbo...let me know the price.. i can prolly get it from you.

 

 

 

Daniel

[jszucs]

I tend to agree. I was reading that this holset turbo I acquired is capable of putting someone in to the 11's - which I dont ever expect nor do I intend to do with my car. I am also thinking that with the exhaust housing being a t3 divided housing 9cm2 it might have decent mid to high end power but I am not giong to be revving to the moon so it will not be the most pleasant on the street.

 

I am in the process of negotiating with someone on getting the GT2860 - anybody have one of these on their quest?

 

OK by the above I think there is something being missed here. You may not have to rev the motor to it's max to reve the turbo to it's max. They are related but you can change how they are related.

 

Next by your discription your looking for a trubo that dosn't exsist in real life just on paper. By this I mean you will never have the fastest spooling but run all the way to the top turbo your going to have to take a trade off somewhere.

 

Next you said it's a devided housing, and I have never seen a manifold for our car be it made one's or peoples oneoffs that is set up for a devided manifold. So that right there is a strike. Also that turbo housing is of an older design, and for fastes spool you want to stay way from the old T series design. You will also want a non devided (since im almost sure that's what your manifold is) and pony up and go for the duel BB for the faster spool. Also since were now getting a custom turbo, have it built with the right AR and hotwheel size to get you to or close to the max air your exaust side can flow. This motor dosn't really rev uptop so you might as well lean to the spool side.

 

Also you made compares to other cars using that turbo, keep in mind most of those are going to be DOHC which yellds a higher volumentric eficncy allowing that motor to be more eficient in pushing more air out, IE spooling the turbo faster.

[NotStock88]

OK by the above I think there is something being missed here. You may not have to rev the motor to it's max to reve the turbo to it's max. They are related but you can change how they are related.

 

I was referring to the holset turbo, specifically, not others. The efficiency of this turbo is in the higher RPM's, nothing I can do to change that.

 

Next by your discription your looking for a trubo that dosn't exsist in real life just on paper. By this I mean you will never have the fastest spooling but run all the way to the top turbo your going to have to take a trade off somewhere.

 

I am not asking for a turbo that is not in existence, i am just trying to be as descriptive as I can and want a recommendation on what might "best suit" my needs.

 

Pony up and go for the duel BB for the faster spool. Also since were now getting a custom turbo, have it built with the right AR and hotwheel size to get you to or close to the max air your exaust side can flow. This motor dosn't really rev uptop so you might as well lean to the spool side.

 

Hence the reason I am said I am looking into the GT28RS

 

Also you made compares to other cars using that turbo, keep in mind most of those are going to be DOHC which yellds a higher volumentric eficncy allowing that motor to be more eficient in pushing more air out, IE spooling the turbo faster.

 

I think you read too far into that. I was not I comparing our car to a DOHC car (obvious difference in head flow cfm's) I just stated that the turbo's capability is way more than what I want or need.

 

Thanks for your input though, I will certainly take it into consideration.

 

Anybody every use a divided turbine housing on a non-divided header? I thought it would be ok but I guess not..?

[lionbull]

I was referring to the holset turbo, specifically, not others. The efficiency of this turbo is in the higher RPM's, nothing I can do to change that.

 

 

 

I am not asking for a turbo that is not in existence, i am just trying to be as descriptive as I can and want a recommendation on what might "best suit" my needs.

 

 

 

Hence the reason I am said I am looking into the GT28RS

 

 

 

I think you read too far into that. I was not I comparing our car to a DOHC car (obvious difference in head flow cfm's) I just stated that the turbo's capability is way more than what I want or need.

 

Thanks for your input though, I will certainly take it into consideration.

 

Anybody every use a divided turbine housing on a non-divided header? I thought it would be ok but I guess not..?

 

i am using a full t4 with non divided no problems there. if you go with a t3 no need to divide it. depends on your header though. divided may help with spool on a t4 but i prefer the non divided. I also prefer big shaft journal bearing turbos. you don't need a BB turbo. its your money so get what you want. you can't rebuild those yourself BTW. I think there is company the does but I don't even wanna know for how much

[jszucs]

Ok devided and non. It will work but I think your focus should be on fastest spool possible (or that's the way it sounds I guess the best judge of this is do you want to run stoplight to stoplight fastes spool then, or do you want to get it up and going but then go like mad IE run for a few stoplights or highway monster also ask do I ever run a continuous high speed or want it for that) so a devided on a non devided header(and also maybe not pulse matched since only one exaust runner is feeding at a time you might feed two from one side then two from the other) will not yeald fastes spool.

 

With your mods I think the turbo is very useable but I don't see you maxing it out spool or topend. It's not really the flow of the head (it is an important factor) it's more the volumetric efficency of a DOHC motor is grate then ohc. You need to measure what the whole motor flows. So you might take a car with a DOHC head but puny displacement and it will not be a good compare at all.

 

I was just throwing the turbo on paper idea to reinforce the fact of the trade off of the two things you want. Spool / not choaking out uptop

 

"I was referring to the holset turbo, specifically, not others. The efficiency of this turbo is in the higher RPM's, nothing I can do to change that."

 

^

That is actuly what I am telling you. You can change the turbo, actuly I believe most that use that turbo very seriously in the DSM world do change the turbo quite a bit. Almost all turbos are change able some way more then others. Now it might involve another housing, might involve machiening the housing out(ie like what hepens when people upgrade a 12A) might involve just the wheels hot and cold or maybe just one. But you can custom a turbo to your motors flow ability.

 

I'm no turbo expert but I was where you are a short while back. What it boiled down to for me was. I first looked at a super 16G(knew you could realy up the boost on them) Then I started eyeing the 19C as I never planed on going more then 20PSI and that is about the top for a 19C but they spool fast. Then my asparations grew again and I also got a nice header so that put me in the t3 catagory (IMHO a big upgrade right there just in the size of the port and flow) So then I started looking at 60-1 BB turbos (big turbos but with a smaller A/R and being BB mad for fast spool). Then a 62-1 turbonetics poped up for a price I coudn't look away from so I got it.

 

 

What I would do is ether sell the turbo and put the money into a put together one for your needs, or keep the turbo and run it, you can always take it off and sell it or upgrade / modify it later.

[Technology]

What are the specs on that 62-1?

[jszucs]

What are the specs on that 62-1?

 

Turbonetics T-3 turbo with 62-1 compressor rated at 65 #/hr Turbine is a stage 3, polished compressor housing with 2-1/2" discharge, 4" inlet 5bolt exhaust externally gated turbo. wanted a Vband as I think it helps flow but beggers can't be choosey

 

I love it. It screams blowdryer of doom as Fanta would say

Edited January 20, 2010 by jszucs

[Tim_C.]

You have some good mods to get the bigger turbo spooled faster. The stainless valves flow a lot more volume, plus they are oversized. The header should help a lot too, and that cam. The big exhaust, lots of intake volume, I think you could slap the turbo you have on there and it might just spool fast enough for you.

As for me, the T3/T4 I have on one of mine, spools plenty fast and will have more top end than you will need. TEP definitely figured one thing out: The T3/T4 turbo is hard to beat for overall performance and driveability.

[jszucs]

^and also options. The T3/T4's have lots of combos even more so then a t3/t3 or t4/t4

[NotStock88]

^and also options. The T3/T4's have lots of combos even more so then a t3/t3 or t4/t4

 

After the replies I have gotten I have decided that I am going to take jszucs advice and keep the holset to just try it out. Tim C. made a good point in saying that it might spool fast enough, that I will be happy with what I have. If not I can always change out for a GT series turbo at a later date.

 

I will keep you guys posted on how things go, due to the season I will not be able to test anything out until the spring.

[jszucs]

makes sence to me. It will also let you know OK this turbo performed like this. If you never ran anything else you might think it's the fastes spooling turbo in the world, but once you run a faster spooling turbo might seem like the slowest spooling turbo in the world.

 

Really the only issue I see is the devided housing and not having a header for a devided housing (turbulance exaust gases botteling up, or maybe the way the ports come together causing two flows one right after the other to each side rather then alternating) and IDK maybe you are but I suspect your not racing this thing for a living??? so it might be a liveable issue.

 

I can tell you the GT and GTK series will be better as they are an improvment aerodynamicly over the old T series housings.

 

You could also run it till your tired of it and or it blows up and then you can have it rebuilt to the specs you want. More then likely this would be a way cheeper option then buying a new one to.

 

I've got a T series housing and im fine with it. The price diff from what I have to a GT or GTK VS the performace gain is minimal. I knew I wanted big but honestly as long as it's enough to scare panties off the ladies and puts a smile on my face it's good enough for me.

Edited January 21, 2010 by jszucs

[NotStock88]

makes sence to me. It will also let you know OK this turbo performed like this. If you never ran anything else you might think it's the fastes spooling turbo in the world, but once you run a faster spooling turbo might seem like the slowest spooling turbo in the world.

 

Really the only issue I see is the devided housing and not having a header for a devided housing (turbulance exaust gases botteling up, or maybe the way the ports come together causing two flows one right after the other to each side rather then alternating) and IDK maybe you are but I suspect your not racing this thing for a living??? so it might be a liveable issue.

 

I can tell you the GT and GTK series will be better as they are an improvment aerodynamicly over the old T series housings.

 

You could also run it till your tired of it and or it blows up and then you can have it rebuilt to the specs you want. More then likely this would be a way cheeper option then buying a new one to.

 

I've got a T series housing and im fine with it. The price diff from what I have to a GT or GTK VS the performace gain is minimal. I knew I wanted big but honestly as long as it's enough to scare panties off the ladies and puts a smile on my face it's good enough for me.

 

I came across this turbo; "new Turbonetics T3 60-1 HiFi(2.75"Inlet/2"Outlet) standard bearing dry unit with a F1-62 Turbine wheel and a 4-Bolt .63 A/R Turbine Housing. It has never been installed" - he is asking 600.00. What do you guys think of this? I am not really familiar with these Turbonetics turbos...

[jszucs]

I came across this turbo; "new Turbonetics T3 60-1 HiFi(2.75"Inlet/2"Outlet) standard bearing dry unit with a F1-62 Turbine wheel and a 4-Bolt .63 A/R Turbine Housing. It has never been installed" - he is asking 600.00. What do you guys think of this? I am not really familiar with these Turbonetics turbos...

 

I think the turbo is a better fit, though I don't know the A/R of the one you have. It will be more then enough for almost anyone with a 2.6. I think Turbonetics makes a great turbo. $600 would be a great price if it was truely new. I want to say new something like that is $1000-1500 depending on options. The hifi's are hybred turbos and they pack more punch then the standard 60-1's Want to say it's a 15% increase they clame.

Edited January 21, 2010 by jszucs

[blue_crush]

Here's what I did Home Skillet

 

http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=89954

 

I started with the WH1C and it was nice, very nice, but more suited for the higher reving engines such as the 2.0

Then I went with the HY35 and cut out the divider and I am very impressed. You don't need a 60-anything what you have will perform better than you think. I would say I hit full spool around 2,800 ish.... Hang on though, when these turbos come to life, they mean business.

[jszucs]

I was actuly thinking of telling him to cut or better yet port the devider out. (just didn't know if there are any risks or if there are any internal passages near and didn't want him screwing up a perfectly good turbo on my best guess) And yes I think he can spin it up just fine, but from his discription it sounds more like he's looking for a turbo that performs more like the one's in say a new sabb where you hit the gas and it's like instant boost. but still balance that with enough size to not choak off. So in that respect I think your right the 60's are even to large other then purpose building one to spool fast.

 

And yes 60 series HY's are all monsters when going.

[Tim_C.]

So, is the divider for a divided header with 2 pipes feeding one side and 2 feeding the other? I've heard guys say the split tang just helps direct the flow for quicker spool and doesn't need a split manifold feed? Is there any literature somewhere on that?

[jszucs]

So, is the divider for a divided header with 2 pipes feeding one side and 2 feeding the other? I've heard guys say the split tang just helps direct the flow for quicker spool and doesn't need a split manifold feed? Is there any literature somewhere on that?

 

Ive always been told you need to make the header for it. So that one pulse goes on one side then the next on the other. ( I think that's the way) The idea is you speed up spool by having the sides devided IE like 2 small hotsides, but you don't choak off uptop because you Tec have one large hotside it's just devided to better direct and make it like 2 smaller hotsides. But I know it's all about getting the exaust pulses right.

[NotStock88]

So, is the divider for a divided header with 2 pipes feeding one side and 2 feeding the other? I've heard guys say the split tang just helps direct the flow for quicker spool and doesn't need a split manifold feed? Is there any literature somewhere on that?

 

This is the most benificial literature I could find; http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1857853 - The main topic is the butterfly valve to block off 1 of the twin scroll ports but there is tons of other info people added.

[NotStock88]

Allright - THE HOLSET IS OUT AND UP FOR SALE - I just picked up a pte5857 (dual ball bearing w/billet wheels - freshly rebuilt). Now time to talk about AR ratings on the turbine side of things. I have 2 options for the set up I requested (requested t3 footprint w/v-band exhaust outlet) and the options are .48 or .63 - what do you guys think will be best for street-ability? I am leaning towards the .48 for quicker spool up. I am not going to be maxing the turbo out or flowing enough to really take advantage of the .63 IMO.

 

Let me know what you guys think.

[DanTurboLancer1974]

Allright - THE HOLSET IS OUT AND UP FOR SALE - I just picked up a pte5857 (dual ball bearing w/billet wheels - freshly rebuilt). Now time to talk about AR ratings on the turbine side of things. I have 2 options for the set up I requested (requested t3 footprint w/v-band exhaust outlet) and the options are .48 or .63 - what do you guys think will be best for street-ability? I am leaning towards the .48 for quicker spool up. I am not going to be maxing the turbo out or flowing enough to really take advantage of the .63 IMO.

 

Let me know what you guys think.

 

 

 

The 2.6 should support the .63 no worries.

Depending on your Manifold set up, it may be alitle laggy.

But with the Ball bearing, will spool Nicely.

 

But questions,

The cam you have, whar RPM range does it actually work between?

How high do you want to rev to?

How much HP would you be happy with?

What do you want to do with the car?

 

 

Of your list of mods...

Im not familiar with a SPF header, but how good a quality is it?

Is it tuned length?

The factory Magna Inlet Manifold isnt great, you will strugle to make Great HP with it.

But way better than the TPI for sure.

 

Sounds like quiet a weapon, all the best with it!!

 

Cheers mate

[JustPaus_88TSi]

A 0.48 is too small for a T3 based hotside, you will be choked off up in the rpms.

 

 

Talk to technology about his friend with the T3 on TBI. If I recall correctly, he ran a hotside over 1.00 A/R.

 

 

 

Even if it was a full T4, i'd still go with the 0.63 A/R minimum. Search for old posts by Mike(Boosted_One) and how fast his 60-1 T4(59mm) came alive on MPI. I want to say he ran a 0.68 or 0.70-ish hotside also.

 

 

Given that 58mm comp. wheel and smaller T3 housing, i'd opt for the 0.82 A/R they come in if I were you.