Best Weight of Oil To Use

[Starfighterpilot]

I heard about going from regular to synthetic might cause leaks but never actually heard of it happening. Its almost recommended just in case to go half synth half regular before making the switch. But RP says you can pour that s*** in on a high mileage car and no damage will occur.

 

It happened to me on my boat's Chevy 305 Volvo Penta engine and my Dodge Pick Up's engine. My ex-Brother-In-Law had the same thing happen to his Ford Pick Up.

 

Why do you change your oil so often? I take my Civic to 7500 on RP, before I used to go 5000 but after skipping one and checking regularly on the oil I saw no difference in the extra 2.5k miles

 

Because that is the way my Dad taught me back in the 1950's when I was a young Wipper-Snapper. And changing the oil at the 2000 to 2500 mile interval helps keep sludge from building up in the engine. And last but not least, that's how I get at least 300 to 400K miles out of multiple engine short blocks.

 

VWs for example say 10k miles in the manual on regular oil =)

 

Do you think that with that recommended oil change interval, it could generate service work for their Service Department in the long run? But they would not do that- would they?

 

For What It's worth.

 

KEN

 

EDIT - One more thing. When I dump my engine oil for an oil change, it still looks like honey, with 300K miles on the short block. No sludge, varnish, combustion by products or dirt suspended in the oil when it's draining. And just to make sure the oil system is clean, I pull the oil pan every spring and clean it out. I hardly ever find any sludge or crud in the pan, except when I had a cracked head a couple of months ago. The oil pan got pulled and cleaned right after we changed the head out.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Starfighterpilot

[eviper21]

you are a tedious man Ken....BUT, it could be nothing but good for the motor....

 

new motors usually go 5000-7000 miles before needing an oil change....and if you change your filters and run good oil....it wont generate sludge.

 

but the 2.6 was built 20 years ago....theres allot of stuff that has gotten by over those years....so changing at least ever 3000 is good.

 

with a rebuilt motor, machining usually puts everything back to spec so its like working with a fresh motor again....just take care of it.

 

and a thing about synthetics, you can go from conventional to syn. but you can go back....so make sure you buy a synthetic when u switch.

 

as for the weights....depends on the climate...it gets STUPID cold in chicago...so i highly advise you not using 20/50 in the winter time...in the summer time i think its moderatley warm right?? 20/50 is ok

[shogun121]

It happened to me on my boat's Chevy 305 Volvo Penta engine and my Dodge Pick Up's engine. My ex-Brother-In-Law had the same thing happen to his Ford Pick Up.

 

 

 

Because that is the way my Dad taught me back in the 1950's when I was a young Wipper-Snapper. And changing the oil at the 2000 to 2500 mile interval helps keep sludge from building up in the engine. And last but not least, that's how I get at least 300 to 400K miles out of multiple engine short blocks.

 

 

 

Do you think that with that recommended oil change interval, it could generate service work for their Service Department in the long run? But they would not do that- would they?

 

For What It's worth.

 

KEN

 

Using synthetics means a better lubrication but what they gain in viscostiy they lose in the detergent action and arent "soaked up" by older style gaskets. The gaskets and seals werent made for it so they "dry" out leading to leaks and drips where there werent any using conventionals. Synthetics also arent going to make your engine cleaner, but at least they wont make it dirtier either, unles you count the leaks developing.

 

And Ken makes a good point in the service dept. I used to take my 92 Taurus SHO to Ford every 2.5k until one day the service advisor got upset because I didnt wait until over 3k between oil changes, He even brought me over to the car to view the dipstick and told me I wasnt letting the oil do its job because it still looked so clean. I told him to bring the car off the rack and I never went back. Have always done my own since then. My dad used to change oils in all our vehicles religously in our cars at 2.5k and always checked them out if something seemed wrong or wasnt running properly- 85 G20 van w 350 went 350k miles w/o issue, 84 Thunderbird w 5.0 went almost 400k before we junked it due to rotted out frame, my 90 Isuzu Impulse XS went over 250k before I sold it to my cousins b/f, drove it out to Cali and kept it another 3 years before he let it go. If you couldnt tell, my family tends to keep cars a long time so we are a bit fanatical about EXCELLENT maintenance on our cars.

 

[Shelby]

ok i may as well add my pennys worth,, what most of you are forgeting is that very few of the younger less experiance'd guy have their car runing like it should when new,,and all turbo engines naturaly get fuel into the oil, it's a completely diff ball game then an na engine , add to that the turbo is some thing like a blow tourch with temps reaching over a 1000 f on the houseings,, the oil

normaly with a meager 350f-400f flash point is on the verge of burning and many times does burn in side the turbo houseing , this is where you get the dirty oil look , it's not from the engine but the turbo ,,the higher the boost the higher the exh houseing temps run

now add to that mix over size'd injs , poor air fuel mixtures and a host of other tuneing problems and ,,you still want to run 5000 miles between oil changes go ahead it's your dollar

 

over the years even factory oil chage recomdations were not for your best intrests , some said every 7-8k miles,,did this work, deff did, the engine normaly last'd untill just after the warranty was up just as they knew it would , now they had a chance to make all that oil money back and then some

 

I can understand many wanting the best for their engine after all they put lot's of $$ into it, but

sending $15 a qt for oil dosen't make it the best choice esp if a $3 a qt oil does the same job

 

oh and one other VERY important fact the mains , piston squirters and rod brgs are

oil'd from an aditional oil passage that bypass's the oil filter , so not all the oil is passing thru the oil filter ,thats not the only passageit still see's oil from the filter but not all from the filter

[cyberquest]

i run 20/50 in the summer, and 10/40 in the colder months.

 

i use just plain old GTX for the 20w50 and Motorcraft 10w40, i can get the 10w40 motorcraft free cause i work at a ford dealership. the car likes either of the two oils but in the summer the 20w50 keeps the motor nice and quiet.

 

always give your car a few minutes warm up before you jump in and drive off, and when you park it give it a couple minutes of idle time. that will save the life of you motor more then the weight of the oil.

[Vnomous1]

Ya know the folks that designed this car (engine) had to have known something...they recommend 10w-30. It is very reasonable for engines that have a few miles on them to go up to 10w-40.

 

I recall reading somewhere to specifically not to use 20w-50 in this engine. That is a very thick oil, and NOT designed for this vehicle.

 

I use Synthetic Oil in my BMW (close tolerance engine) and in my Corvette (another close tolerance engine) because that is what the folks who designed the engine said it needed. Surely they are not just a bunch of idiots running around like chickens with there heads chopped off.

 

Be smart, save money and go with the manufacture's recommendation.

 

 

[Starfighterpilot]

Ya know the folks that designed this car (engine) had to have known something...they recommend 10w-30. It is very reasonable for engines that have a few miles on them to go up to 10w-40.

 

Do you know what the W stands for in the 10W- 30, 20W- 40 and 20W- 50 engine oils? If not, look it up, and you will have egg on your face when you find out. What is the difference in this environment between 20W - 40 and 20W - 50?

 

In addition read about what the state of the API oil was in as provided to the general public, when the Starquest's FSM Lub & Maint. Sections were written as stated in my above post..... IE 20W- 50 engine oil was NOT on the market then.

 

I recall reading somewhere to specifically not to use 20w-50 in this engine. That is a very thick oil, and NOT designed for this vehicle.

 

Once again, do you know what the W stands for in the 10W- 30, 20W- 40 and 20W- 50 engine oils? If not, look it up, and you will have egg on your face when you find out. I would REALLY appreciate it that you provide the source of the above information, that 20W-50 SL engine oil is not to be used in the G54B Turbo engine, cuz I will tell that source, to his face, that he is full of crap. I have used it for about 140K miles in my '88 Starion with 300K miles on the short block, with excellent results.

 

I use Synthetic Oil in my BMW (close tolerance engine) and in my Corvette (another close tolerance engine) because that is what the folks who designed the engine said it needed. Surely they are not just a bunch of idiots running around like chickens with there heads chopped off.

 

The BMR's and the newer 'vettes are different beast's than the G54B turbo engine. That engine oil application does not apply to our Starquest engine's. HOW DID THIS STATEMENT THAT I HAVE TYPED A RESPONSE TO, GET INTO THE ABOVE QUOTE??

 

Be smart, save money and go with the manufacture's recommendation.

 

The BMR's and the newer 'vettes engines are different beast's than the G54B turbo engine. Those engine oil applications do not apply to our Starquest engine's.

 

Even if it cost's you a crap load of money in the long run? HHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

OK, let's start putting all of what is the correct weight of engine oil to rest and START concentrating on the OTHER IMPORTANT STUFF about present day engine oil's.

 

I brought this subject up on API Service Category API Service Ratings in one of my previous posts in this topic but no one seems to have picked up on it.

 

Presently, the type of engine oil that you get from where ever is API Service Category SM.

 

Guess what? This SM engine oil allows scuffing our cam shaft's lobes/lifters cuz it does not have enough "ZDDP" (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate) to prevent scuffing of the Starquest's G54B flat tappet lobed tappets/cam. See http://www.aa1car.com/library/api_motor_oi...sifications.htm for further information if you do not believe me.

 

I am remiss in not stating that I have switched from the Castrol GTX 10W-40 & 20W-50 engine oil Service Category Rating of SM to Castrol High Mileage 10W- 40 & 20W- 50 Service Category Rating SL. This oil has supposedly sufficient amounts of the ZDDP in it, and is SUPPOSEDLY friendly to '80's circa engines, which had the flat tappets and other friction sensitive components in the engine.

 

For instance, when I did the BSE on my engine, in early 05, I saw VERY LITTLE evidence of scuffing of my Starion's cam lobe's to tappet contact surfaces. BUT, when we replaced the head a couple of month's ago, I noticed a medium amount of cam lobe & tappet scuffing. I thought, wt....? The further I researched into this, the further I was getting PO'ed.

 

It seems that the API Service Category Rating - SL - which included ZDDP, slightly degraded the exhaust catalytic converters over a VERY LONG period of time. So upon the Fed's pressure, the oil companies made a decision in 2004 to - SCREW the engine, lets make sure that the cat converter is functional even tho the engine is trashed as a result of this new engine oil Category Federal requierement. Let's just get the Feds off of our back.

 

Or in other words: SCREW THE ENGINE & an otherwise good car - let's PERHAPS save the cats. Was there a publicized announcement about this? Hell no!! Why you may ask? I think it's self evident!!!! Get the older cars off of the street as soon as possible!!!!!!!!

 

I got some of this info from my local US Congressman's office. He is PO'ed about this too, cuz he has a '65 Goat, 389, with trip's, that he loves. And he wiped out the cam, cam bearings & lifters last year for no apparent reason, which required a rebuild of the engine cuz he was running the API Service Category SM oil.

 

It seems to me that this is a way for the environmentalist's to get older cars off of the road FASTER so they can further their own agenda. Cuz it's not cost effective to the average older car owner to rebuild their engines, to the tune of $1 to 3K, to keep 'em on the road.

 

So it appears to me that us Starquest owner's have 2 choices. Use high mileage oil that conforms to API Service Category SL or get the ZDDP additive to put in the oil at each oil change.

 

BTW - my Starion does NOT like the high mileage 20W -50 engine oil. The lifter's are clicking and clacking 5 times louder that they did when I was running the Castrol GTX 20W - 50 & 10W- 40 API Service Category SM engine oil. But I am looking at the lesser of two evils here. :character0285: :confused0024:

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

 

PS - Who knows what a Goat with trip's is? Shelby be quiet. I know that you know.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Starfighterpilot

[MidMoTSI]

Ken,

 

That wouldn't be a 3 duece set-up would it?

[Starfighterpilot]

Ken,

 

That wouldn't be a 3 duece set-up would it?

 

Yeah but what type of goat?

 

KEN

 

[MidMoTSI]

You got me there, I would say 389. Don't know how much HP it was putting out, but in the mid 60's, the 389 w/a stock 4 barrel was around 335HP. That was also around the same time period they ran a Hurst dual gate shifter wasn't it?

[Starfighterpilot]

You got me there, I would say 389. Don't know how much HP it was putting out, but in the mid 60's, the 389 w/a stock 4 barrel was around 335HP. That was also around the same time period they ran a Hurst dual gate shifter wasn't it?

 

Yeah, to the above, but what was a GOAT?

 

Let's get back to what I typed above about the present day Engine Oil API Service Categories that ytou get when you buy a jug of engine oil.

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

[Dad]

I add the Zddp to mine on oil changes if that matters to ya

 

 

Dad

[TexasQuest]

I use Castrol GTX 10w40

[Starfighterpilot]

I use Castrol GTX 10w40

 

What API Service Category?

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

 

[TexasQuest]

SM,SL,SJ and I forgot to add it's high mileage.

[Starfighterpilot]

SM,SL,SJ and I forgot to add it's high mileage.

 

Even tho it's high mileage, I think that you had better check the jug it came in. Cuz SM is NOT equal to SL or below as far as additives & engine applications go.

 

See http://www.aa1car.com/library/api_motor_oi...sifications.htm for further info.

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

 

[Tim_C.]

I had a friend with a '70 T37 (I think that was the year) with a 400 and trips.

 

That's some really good info Ken!

[BrokenquestTSI]

I use Castrol GTX 10w40

 

X2

[Starfighterpilot]

X2

 

Then say good bye to your cam and tappets in a year or so; unless you are using GTX made before the middle of 2004 or adding ZDDP to the GTX engine oil.

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

Edited July 16, 2009 by Starfighterpilot

[Shelby]

do you have a list of products that have ZDDP in them

 

i see the site speaks of performance engines,, what about our normal daily drivers with flat tappet cams and push rod engines like the 3.3 and 3.8 chyr v6's

Edited July 17, 2009 by Shelby

[Whiplash]

ZDDP started being reduced from oils in around 1986. The ZDDP has been removed from ALL engine oils to below acceptable levels in Jan 2007. ZDDP (zinc and phosphorus) is only needed in first break-in for flat tappet camshafts only. Not needed for roller camshaft break-in. You can buy a bottle of ZDDP from NAPA, and some performance houses. NAPA can get it but most stores don't know about it yet. NAPA sells the Lucus brand.

 

BTW. If not using the additive it will wear the lobes off the cam in a few minutes.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Whiplash

[Starfighterpilot]

do you have a list of products that have ZDDP in them

 

i see the site speaks of performance engines,, what about our normal daily drivers with flat tappet cams and push rod engines like the 3.3 and 3.8 chyr v6's

 

OK Shelby,

 

I have done some preliminary reasearch on the ZDDP being progressively reduced since API Service Category SF was superceed by SG and is now up to SM.

 

There is a LOT of controversy out on the internet about this. And a lot of people are REALLY PO'ed at the EPA. Even in Europe.

 

I called a Komatsu Service Rep at Komatsu's corporate headquarters that I have worked with occassionally when I worked with Komatsu as a Field Service Tech. The guy REALLY knows his crap, he has been in the automotive/forklift industries for about 40 years.

 

I specifically asked him if Komatsu's Genuine Engine 15W - 40, API Service Category CI-4/SL, CH-4/SJ, CF-2, CFoil could be used in a 1988 turbo charged, high performance 4 banger witout the problems of not having the ZDDP additive in it. He looked it up and said YES. This engine oil does have the ZDDP in it.

 

I asked him what was the PPM concentration of ZDDP. He said that he didn't specifically know. BUT, he would get back to me in the next couple of days. I told him, from what I have been able to find out - the concentration should be right at 1200 PPM's.

 

So for right now I have a jug of Komatsu's "Genuine Motor Oil" 15W - 40, API Service Category CI-4/SL, CH-4/SJ, CF-2, CF. Guess what? I have about 2300 miles on this oil change. Today I am dumping the Castrol High Mileage, 20W-50 oil and putting in Komatsu's oil. Maybe my lifters will now stop clicking and clacking. I just replace 'em about 6000K miles ago. So hopefully they are not TOO worn.

 

BTW - for you guys that are overhauling your G54B engines - DO NOT USE API SERVICE CATEGORY SM OIL FOR YOUR BREAK IN. MANY, MANY posts out there about this. The general consensus is, use the Valvoline VT-1 Racing Oil - cuz it SEEMS to have the required amount of ZDDP in it. If you do not you WILL prematurely were out the tappets & cam lobes. The Valvoline VR1 Racing & "Not Street Legal" Racing Oils contain additional additives for increased horsepower and reduced friction on metal parts, provide extra wear protection for high compression/higher horsepower engines, and include LESS DETERGENTS (emphasis mine) than regular conventional motor oils. Cuz it's ONLY to be used for Racing and once the race is over it's DUMPED.

 

And you guys that are running the Schrieder Valve Springs rather than the old worn out MITSU OEM valve springs - MUST be concerned about this - More spring pressure on the tappets and cam lobes.

 

If you just think that you can just run out and buy some ZDDP aditive and throw it in your oil - WRONG!!!!!!!

 

It seems just adding the ZDDP additive to your oil MAY not be beneficial to the engine. Cuz if you add too much you will start building up sludge in the engine. Ideal level of ZDDP is 1200 Parts Per Million (PPM). So you need to know how much ZDDP PPM is in the oil that you are going to use, and then find out how much ZDDP is required to achieve that concentration.

 

There is some talk on the internet that going to 1300 PPM or greater causes sludge, and having 1100 PPM or less is not enough.

 

I am going to clone this and put it in the BS Forum. It has much more visibility there. I have some family commitments that I have to do this week-end and I won't have any time to further research this MAJOR PROBLEM for us Starquesters.

 

SEE http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/API.html for further info.

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

[Whiplash]

http://www.aera.org/eptb/TB2333R.pdf

[DieHARDmitsu.]

Royal purple Baby! the best oil I've used in my cars!

 

Royal purple test

[Tim_C.]

The 15W40 that I use in my '83 daily is an SL. Valvoline Fleet Service. Except the engine is a later year, but not sure which year. It is a hydraulic slip rocker cam. The rest of mine are roller cam, so I should be able to use the newer SM oil.