Push Start Related Question

[Killtodie]

Quick question, I just remembered this. Some old school cars with manual transmissions could be moved if the engine is dead. I think you simply put it in first gear and crank the starter and work the clutch, essentially using the starter motor to move the car a short distance to move it out of a bad location or stuck on railroad tracks..

 

 

Is this available in modern cars?

[Fanta]

Quick question, I just remembered this. Some old school cars with manual transmissions could be moved if the engine is dead. I think you simply put it in first gear and crank the starter and work the clutch, essentially using the starter motor to move the car a short distance to move it out of a bad location or stuck on railroad tracks..

 

 

Is this available in modern cars?

 

we've done it on a Evolution 9 MR before so I'd say yes

[Edde]

Yes on this car because it has no clutch switch to worry with. So yes you could do it although you shouldn'

t unless it's an emergency.

[Killtodie]

right, emergency. cause otherwise the engine would start...

[BrazilBoy]

Bored enough that playing on railroad tracks seem entertaining now?

[89PalermoSHP]

omg... why would you not just put it in neutral and push the car??? if its on train tracks and there is a train coming, GET OUT OF THE CAR!... its too late!

[DJpowerHaus]

Starion starters are tough. I pulled my car onto the trailer with it before. Heck, I've even spun the tires on the metal ramps using the starter. The solenoid eventually gave up the ghost after 21 years of abuse.

[Maxzillian]

On one occasion I started my car while it was in gear. First off I was astounded that the starter got the car rolling with not so much as a hint of trouble, and second, the engine started and the car drove off!

 

Good thing no one was in the parking spot in front of me!

[ucw458]

I've had the starter overpower the parking brake. Though it wasn't pulled up all the way.

 

It's not hard to see the power a starter can put out if you do the math.

 

Our starters are 1.8 kilowatt = 2.41 HP electric motor

 

Starter has 9 teeth

 

Flywheel has 120 teeth

 

First gear is 3.369-1

 

diff ratio is 3.55-1

 

What does all that mean? Well apply the math 120/9 = 13.333 Flywheel\starter gear ratio.

So use this formula.

(13.333 x 3.369) x 3.55 = 159.466

 

Meaning the final drive ratio from starter to tires is 159.466 In other words the 2.41 HP starter turns 159.466 times for every turn of the tire. That's more than enough power and gear ratio to move the car.

 

Furthermore gears are torque multipliers. Meaning if you run 100 ft lbs through a 3-1 gear ratio you get 300 ft lbs output, assuming no drivetrain loss. So if you assume the starter puts out at leats 1 ft lb of torque(probably puts out 2-3) with the gear ratio that's almost 160 ft lbs of torque. Now assume you lose 50% from drivetrain loss that's still 80 ft lbs of torque.

 

Assuming the starter puts out slightly more that 1 ft lb and the drivetrain loss is less than 50% that means from a dead stop the starter puts more torque to the ground than a stock G54B turbo puts out at 2000 rpm. My dyno charts show my relativly stock 2.6 producing 100 ft lbs at 2000 rpm.

Edited October 21, 2009 by ucw458

[Shelby]

if you need to move the car and have no one to help,, remove the spark plugs and unplug the dist harness

don't over heat the starter, alow it to cool down if you have a ways to go

[Jehu]

<--- Guilty!

[Killtodie]

Wish I knew this when my car died 2 blocks out...

 

but, I had a dead battery so I couldn't start it either.

[moparkid340]

iv used the started to load both my quest b4

[FlattopMike]

You asked about "modern cars". The answer is no.

There is a clutch lock out switch in all modern cars that will not allow the starter to engage unless the clutch is all the way depressed.

I don't even think it will work if its just a little sad!

[Killtodie]

You asked about "modern cars". The answer is no.

There is a clutch lock out switch in all modern cars that will not allow the starter to engage unless the clutch is all the way depressed.

I don't even think it will work if its just a little sad!

 

Yeah, that's right. But ones you start cranking, cant you let off the clutch?

[FlattopMike]

No, they will stop cranking. At least all of the ones I've driven are like that.

[Shelby]

takes about 2 min to bypass a clutch swt

[Maxzillian]

Heck, most clutch switches don't even require you to fully declutch the transmission. Half the time if you just press the pedal in until all of the backlash is taken up, that's enough to trigger the switch.

[Indiana]

I've did it many times and this car has no clutch safety switch. EVO should have so someone disabled it. I did this recently moving a bugeye sprite up a driveway into a carport. I loaded a Quattro wagon onto my trailer using the starter, it pulled right up on there. If the car would start why would you do it and if the battery was dead no you cuoldn't. It won't go two miles doing that on a good battery but it might go two blocks but that would be if you had a good battery or were using a deep cycle battery. The start would get hot but its the wires you should worry about they might melt something around them or their insulation before the starter motor would have a problem. The older manual tranny cars had direct drive starters, you might have a problem doing it with them but the gear reduction starters its not too hard to move cars that way.

[ucw458]

A buddy of mine had a blown motor in his SQ. No compression, overheated to death. He claims to have gotten his car almost to 25 MPH just using the starter.

[Edde]

A buddy of mine had a blown motor in his SQ. No compression, overheated to death. He claims to have gotten his car almost to 25 MPH just using the starter.

 

 

Video !

[ucw458]

Video !

 

Sorry man I don't think he taped it.

[mikec]

Yes, starters can "drive" the car pretty quickly/easily. Right into the garage wall and/or somebody standing in front of (or behind) the car, crushing their legs. That's why new cars today have the safety switch on the clutch pedal. StarQuests didn't have clutch safety switches - at least up through the 1988 model years. 89s? Don't know about those... The clutch pedal does have a "cruise control cancel switch" on it... but not a starter safety switch. Even having the safety switch though doesn't guarantee safety. Instead of a car in gear moving with the starter, what sometimes happens is a driver pushes the clutch pedal, starts the engine, and then releases the pedal... while the tranny is in gear. Now the ENGINE makes the car lurch into the garage wall or your spouse. A safer method would be to have a "neutral" sensing switch on manual transmissions (like auto trannies have) and use that to enable/disable the starter.

 

Removing the spark plugs, so the engine doesn't generate any compression pressure, makes it even easier to use the starter to "drive" a StarQuest in/out of the garage, onto ramps, onto trailers, etc. If you do this, disconnect the fuel injector "clips" and undo the connector going to the ignition module to disable those two functions for extra safety.

 

Of course this is abuse for the starter motor. If you must do this, don't run the starter for more than 30 seconds at a time, then give it several minutes to cool back down. Heat is the enemy: if the starter gets too hot, the internal wire insulation breaks down, ruining the starter. Same for the solenoid. The temp of the starter innards will be MUCH higher than the outside case temp too so just touching the body of the starter to test "has it cooled down yet?" isn't an adequate test. And the beefy wires connecting the battery to the starter can get hot too, leading to problems already mentioned in this thread.

 

As previously posted, car starter motors are a couple horsepower. Very powerful. A typical car needs only 8 to 12 horsepower to maintain 55mph on a level road. So how fast can a 2 or 3 horsepower starter motor move the car? 25MPH is quite likely!

 

mike c.