mistapickles Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 I'm helping the kid out who bought my last car. When I sold it to him, his father made me take out the 16g that was in it and put in a 12a so he wouldn't kill himself, he had never driven a turbo car and didn't know the difference. Anywho.........he turned the boost controller way up as he got accustomed to the boost and sure enough blew the head gasket something fierce between 2 and 3 with some rod knock. He said he didn't have the boost controller high, but when I put it in my car to see where it was at............spiked at 22lbs and settled out at 20lbs of boost. Burned my stock clutch actually. I love it. Question is, can my stock, well built and perfect running system handle that kind of boost on an occasional basis? Can I leave it set at 20lbs and jump on it occasionally to burn the occasional ricer? I have a narrow band A/F and know it's little more than a light show, but it doesn't dip to lean. Am I leaning out (technically or hypothetically) running that much boost? What are the long term problems I am going to have running that much boost? What should I be listening for, to know that I might be screwing something up? I usually never run more than 14lbs and am an advocate for stock setups, but that 20lbs was like crack and I'm hooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) No its a time bomb with a stock head and bottom end...especially when you add improper fuel system to it.. I built the heck out of mine so I can run 18lbs reliably.... Edited May 22, 2009 by BrazilBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 I agree that it will prematurely kill itself. I ran 18 pounds on a stock low miles engine for a couple years until I finally torched the head gasket along with the head AND cracked the block. So that said, sure is fun isn,t it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Venable Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 ARP head studs, and a good new headgasket should be able to handle this fairly well. But if the rings are still OEM from the factory, HELLO blow-by. even just a good stock refresh would be good for her. But if you go that far, might as well just spend the money for some forged pistons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Well, sorry to thread jack. But if i were to get a 14b, how much boost would the stock fuel system handle reliably? Its an 89 tsi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwadd85 Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 hey psu-crash, how many miles were on that engine when it torched the head? i want a guestimate of how long mine will last. thanks, Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 hey psu-crash, how many miles were on that engine when it torched the head? i want a guestimate of how long mine will last. thanks, Graham I bought the car with 42k original miles on it and have no idea how long it was run that way before I got it. It died at aprox 50k miles. This was also on a 14G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviper21 Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 i plan on runnin 20psi on a 17c..... im rebuilding the bottom end with hype-u's and new rings ... the block is getting decked for flatness and im using stock replacement head bolts.. i wouldnt go much higher and im going to work up to it gradually..but im pretty sure itll hold with freshend up rings and a flat head to block surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 i plan on runnin 20psi on a 17c..... im rebuilding the bottom end with hype-u's and new rings ... the block is getting decked for flatness and im using stock replacement head bolts.. i wouldnt go much higher and im going to work up to it gradually..but im pretty sure itll hold with freshend up rings and a flat head to block surface. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDX87Starion Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Dont forget your dist. stopped retarding the timing way back between 7 and 10 PSI and cant retard any more. The more boost you run after that the closer you get to the edge of detonation. So if you retard your base timing a couple degrees and get a wide band to make sure your not leaning out, and you dont do a full 5th gear pull to red line... you'll probably be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Well, sorry to thread jack. But if i were to get a 14b, how much boost would the stock fuel system handle reliably? Its an 89 tsi 12 or 13 reliably.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted May 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 I'm not drag racing it every day, I mostly freeway drive. Maybe I run it on a mountain road every now and again, but nothing sustained. That will blow my rings in 20k miles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlowinUp54B's Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 12 or 13 reliably.... I'd say around there, get a 1g mas, fuel pump, and you can probably run a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 You guys are not doing something right. A 14B is a crap turbo its tiny. You can push 20psi on that thing if your fuel system is fully operational and your ignition system is working. When the things go wrong is when some moron thinks they can hold in 3rd gear at 6000 rpms and race someone and do that for 30secs or so the heat in the motor builds up, the temperatures in the head build up and the fuel is pushed to its limit and the motor has pre-ignition from the heat not from the boost level. You can have this happen in any motor. You push the motor harder and harder each time until it breaks then come back and blame it on the boost level when that's NOT what was the problem. Run the turbo at 20psi all day long just don't hold it there are HIGH rpms and if you SHIFT you won't be at those high rpms for but a few seconds and that is fine to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted May 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 You can push 20psi on that thing if your fuel system is fully operational and your ignition system is working. When the things go wrong is when some moron thinks they can hold in 3rd gear at 6000 rpms and race someone and do that for 30secs or so the heat in the motor builds up, the temperatures in the head build up and the fuel is pushed to its limit and the motor has pre-ignition from the heat not from the boost level. You can have this happen in any motor. You push the motor harder and harder each time until it breaks then come back and blame it on the boost level when that's NOT what was the problem. Run the turbo at 20psi all day long just don't hold it there are HIGH rpms and if you SHIFT you won't be at those high rpms for but a few seconds and that is fine to do that. Ok, so I have the factory thermostat, my computer thinks my car is warmed up and won't run it lean AND my injectors and fuel pump is fine. What about the timing issue that PDX87Starion was talking about? what would I have to do with my timing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Increased boost pressures can be safer if ignition timing is further retarded. We didn't do that but if you like you can just set your base timing back say 2 degrees so that its 8btdc instead of 10. The result is 2 crank degrees less duration for the flame to burn. You can also help lower combustion temperatures with a spark plug that is one step colder. NGK plugs if the number is higher that means cooler, others are the opposite. What he was saying is that the vac. adv unit both advances and retards ignition timing but given stock boost levels and the part was designed for that, the vac. adv unit is only going to be able to retard timing about 7 degrees. The mechanical adv. weights still function but the vac. unit can over ride those. This is in the service manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviper21 Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 get a wide band and make sure everything is top notch...im not sure if id run 20psi on and old bottom end 50,000+ miles .....but the best thing to do is take it to a tuning shop where they can strap that bad boy on a dyno... there a/f gauges will tell you exactly whats going on....that way you can tell if you wideband is close and your running safe....who knows you might be able to bump it up to 21psi lol but doing it out on the street can leave you stranded or cause an accident.... as for the 14b....you can run it at 20psi but why....your just over doing it...it wasnt meant to go that high....id say 15psi that way you dont have to wory about blowing your sh** up and you still pull decent power of the stock 12a at 7psi... you cant just throw 20psi at a motor and exspect it to hold together.....if it were that way they would have done it from the factory... do some tests first...compression, leak down, feul pump gph, etc. and get some sort of a/f meter, even a narow band is better than nothing.....then slowly move the boost up slapping 20psi on an old motor thats not ready for it is...well....not good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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