CARBON INTAKE MANIFOLD

[Grey_Wulf]

http://www.advancedinductionresearch.com/

Just thought i'd put this up!  I've wanted this place to fab me one but i don't have the time or money right now.

[Metric-man]

http://www.advancedinductionresearch.com/

Just thought i'd put this up!  I've wanted this place to fab me one but i don't have the time or money right now.

 

Access to CF is becoming easier for the average home craftsman and the prices are going down as the technology advances...You would think that the intake on AIR's website was the only one they ever fabricated... that address hasn't been updated for over a year now.

[Grey_Wulf]

Sure, but it's still sexxy!!!

http://www.advancedinductionresearch.com/_...%20LF%20Top.jpg

Atleast the runners show some kind of "stacking" which is lacking from any manifold design i've seen here:(

[mstieg]

Any recent developments?  What happened with this guy?

 

Call me curious, is it in anyway possible to have an intake that could be made for both setups? (say with blockoff plates, or two options of TB/injector runner adapter plates) I don't claim to be an expert, so this may be crazy talk.

 

If carbon, won't this be expensive enough that only guys with cash to go MPI will get it anyway?  I know if I had $1k for a manifold, I'd rather put it into MPI option.

 

TB has it's limits, performance-wise AND financially, so I agree with your MPI if it's one or the other.

 

How about an exhaust manifold?  That's universal beyond even our cars!

 

-Matt

[Metric-man]

How about an exhaust manifold?  That's universal beyond even our cars!

 

-Matt

Exhaust compression  and it's high temperatures forbid the use of carbon fiber structures.

 

Kevlar composite w/ a ceramic base polymer.. maybe someone in the aerospace industry can help us out ?

 

I think cast iron would be the most reasonable material for a exhaust manifold to put it through production.

[mstieg]

I stand corrected.  Thanks.  

[columbusquest]

I highly recommend Chad's intake as a starting point.  He has a 4 and 8 injector intake design.  If your going to make one, please let me know within 6 months as I plan to purchase one of Chad's.  However, I would prefer to purchase a carbon designed intake, if one were available.  

 

Thanks

Chris

[88whitestarion]

As a magna intake user, I'll offer my two cents:

 

I think the runners on the Magna are too long. My engine with the stock TBI would rev to 7000 rpm with a T3/T4. Once I went with the Magna it falls on its face anything over 6200rpm. Granted I would never go back to the stock TB, I make alot more power with the Magna(379whp and 437wft/lb torque at 25lbs of boost). But I think something with a shorter runner would solve the limited hp numbers(relative to the torque numbers) and allow for higher reving. The runner length of the EIP might be too short, however, since I still drive this mostly on the street.

 

I would like to see a middle of the road option with regard to runner length, say 8 to 10 inches and a slightly larger plenum than the Magna. I may have just described Chad's intake, I'm not sure how long his runners are on his intake.

 

I'm curious to know if anyone else out there with a Magna can still make power over 6500rpm's? Or am I the only one? Magna owners please speak up.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[JustPaus_88TSi]

Here's the FIP...

Might be what you're looking for..

http://www.angelfire.com/mech/edwardcase00/H-4S.jpg

[Whiplash]

I say go for the MPI set-up. It's a better set-up than the TBI system. That's why all the OEM's did away with it.

 

How about making the intake with stackable runner lengths?

[Low White N Boosted]

IF YOU BUILD A CARBON FIBER MPI MANIFOLD I WILL BUY ONE NO DOUBT... IM SURE MANY OTHERS WILL ALSO IF THE PRICE IS REASONABLE. THERE IS NOTHING CARBON FOR OUR CARS AND THAT WOULD JUST BE PLAIN BAD a**. IMO YOU SHOULD MODEL IT AFTER THE EIP CANNON INTAKE MANIFOLD.... they seem to know their s***

 

http://www.eiptuning.com/eip/intakemanifolds.html

 

 

then all we need is a carbon fiber hood with a bad a** scoop and we would be set

[columbusquest]

C:staged-1.jpg

[shift1313]

I didnt read all of this post as i got lost in some of it.  I dont think the debate, if there is one, should be mpi vs tbi.  if you actually run flow numbers on a dry manifold vs a wet manifold you will see the night and day difference.  If a mpi car falls on its face its more then likely tuning.  Im not sure how the magna manifolds flow but they have decent sized runners so my guess would be an exhaust manifold restriction or too much fuel.  

 

jet valve ports on the stock intake manifold would be a great place to inject alky/water right into the head:) if you were looking for a way to get rid of them.  Keeping the valve but using something like alky would hopefully take away the hot spot problem and cracking heads.  but would introduce a new rapid cool problem running so close to coolant passages.  

 

if you are still planning on building a carbon intake focus on equal length runners and a good plenum design and numbers will prove themselves.  you dont have to be the best, just better then what we got  

[Metric-man]

jet valve ports on the stock intake manifold would be a great place to inject alky/water right into the head:) if you were looking for a way to get rid of them.  Keeping the valve but using something like alky would hopefully take away the hot spot problem and cracking heads.  but would introduce a new rapid cool problem running so close to coolant passages.  

 

I don't want to seem nit picky but  what did you just write ?

 

Jet valve ports on the stock "intake manifold" ?

 

All the time I've seem them they are right there in the "cylinder head"

[eeaston]

There has to be a path through the intake TO the passages in the head.  It's been quite some time since I looked at a stock manifold, but there is some sort of port connecting the intake to the JV passage in the head.

[Metric-man]

There has to be a path through the intake TO the passages in the head.  It's been quite some time since I looked at a stock manifold, but there is some sort of port connecting the intake to the JV passage in the head.

 

Yeah it's called an intake port to the combustion chamber.

 

The only way some one could  add H20 alcohol / methanol  injection through a jet valve  passage is through the top of the valve cover.

 

There is not a  special port on the intake manifold for the jet valves if their was you would be getting a different intake manifold for the 8V head as opposed to the 12V ( MCA jet) cylinder head.

[shift1313]

if you look at the side of the head where the manifold bolts to there is a channel that feeds all 4 jet valves but gets fed from one spot in the intake manifold.  it feeds the jet valves from the top left of each port and the channel connects all 4 together while keeping them seperated from the fuel/air mix.  because the jet valves only introduce air into the combustion chamber to swirl it, as far as i know.  here is a pic of the non jet head.  you can still see the channel cast into it but the jet valve ports are plugged off.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/maperez/Starion/cylhead.jpg

 

starts above cyl1, runs down below the mechanical fuel pump port and back up and stays above 2,3 and 4.

[shift1313]

i dont have a manfold close to me so i cant say for sure how it gets to the channel but i remember under the base of the manifold in the center there are two small runners.  never looked much into it though.  but yes there is a seperate port for the jet valves different from each cylinder port

[Metric-man]

dude your right : I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it myself... it is fed through a passage in the throttle body... :-/  

I don't have the center section of the throttle body  assembly (w/ the butterfly plate) available to look at but there is a small hole to the right front curve of the throttle body opening on the intake manifold  that feeds a passage to a runner that goes to those passages....

 

(Crow doesn't taste very good but you learn from eating it...)

[shift1313]

no problem,  Sometimes its hard to explain/understand without having it right infront of you.  I would have never guessed it without having pulled a few heads and seen jet vs non jet etc.  but now you know and can pass it on/use it for your advantage  my car no longer has jet valves but having a seperate valve in the head must be good for something ;D

[rjf]

Well this thread has been going for quite awhile.  

 

As I mentioned months ago, most runner length calulators recommend a runner length around 15", but those calculators are really set for non-turbo'd engines.  

 

On the other hand many Tubo publications show manifolds with very short runners, but most of those are set up for the drag strip.  Most of those engines are high rev units, the G54B has a 98mm stroke and although it can rev well past 6K with mods,

it is not really happy up there, nor I suspect long lived.

 

Then some folks adhere to the therory that each runner should have a volume at least equal to a single cyl displacement.

 

If this project is to be successful you must decide if you will sell more if it is a

manifold for the drags, or for street/SOLO2.

 

Also the idea to make a manifold that can be used either as an MPI unit,

or, with the bungs blocked off, as a TBI unit is a good one.  This would give you a wider audience.

 

If this unit is to be used on the street, some consideration will have to be given

to adding ports, that can be blocked off, for the various vacuum hoses and for

the EGR needed for smog in some states.

 

Also it should clear the distributer and the AC unit if it is for the street.

[shift1313]

thats very good advice rjf, another thing to remember with design is plenum volume. you take into account plenum volume along with runner volume etc unless your are mocking up a magna etc.

[jerastan]

hey guys.  i've been way busy w/ school/work/pregnant wife...  my friend still wants to do this, but we need a firm direction to go in.  i just read through lots of the thread and still no firm decision.  any more ideas?  i could just give him a stock setup and see what he can come up w/ ?

[shift1313]

I would make it just a plenum with individual runners and injector bungs.  The problem your going to run into is people keeping stock tb and stock ic piping etc.  Not many people can drop $$$ on everything at once.  The best thing if possible is release two seperate manifolds.  One to model stock or atleast stock location putting injector bungs in. and a second that is basically the eip cannon intake with a smaller plenum and longer runners. somehwere between 8-12".   What you could do is offer the second idea up and put the tb on top and offer a spacer neck to pipe into stock IC piping.

[Dcrasta]

YAWN.. building something out of carbon fiber for TBI is stupid.