19c Vs. Big 16G

[QUIKQUEST]

I was looking on the Turbochargers.com site and saw that the 19c and the big 16g were almost identical in price. Whats the performance difference between the two?

 

I bought a 88 Conquest with a 19c, turbo and ic hardpipes, downpipe, highflow fuelpump, fuel pressure regulator, with an RFL BOV.

 

What can I do to Get the max with tbi with this turbo. Can I use the hks pfcon fms and upgrade my injectors to get amore power? I would like to reach 280+hp, what more will i need to add to get there with what ihave so far?

 

I hear alot about changing the fuel management to take advantage of upgrades. What fuel management is recommended? And relatively not that expensive. Can I get away with the HKS unit, injectors and the 19c??

 

I really love this car since my buddy had 1 in High School. Finally got a decent one of my own. Greatly appreciate the help.

 

Ralph

[JustPaus_88TSi]

I would like to reach 280+hp.

 

What fuel management is recommended? And relatively not that expensive. Ralph

 

 

Define expensive.

 

Making power on TBI isn't exactly cheap if you want it done right with longevity in mind.

[Tim_C.]

I'm not a turbo expert, but I've run a 17C and have some experience with the 'Super 16G'. I'd say stick with the 19C. It spools faster and stays boosting up in the higher RPM a little better IMHO. The Big 16G will boost to a higher PSI more efficiently. That's the main benefit from it. Much over 18 PSI, and the 16G is better. Below 18, the 19C is much better. There are other factors that may sway the favor over to the 16G, but all around, I like the 'C' series compressor wheel better.

[QUIKQUEST]

For Certain i would like it to be a dependable set up. As far as expensive defined... I would have to say shelling out more than 2k with what I have already is pushing it. Maybe I could afford more later on.

[QUIKQUEST]

Hey Tim that was very helpful. You answered my question perfectly-Thank you. Can I ask you Tim..@ around 18psi,( to get to that amount of boost ) how can i do that with this turbo? What will I further need to achieve that boost from this 19c? What will I need to change? Or Add for that matter,

 

Your on top of your game man...

 

Ralph

[Caliber308]

Here's some specs:

 

Super or Big 16G: 550cfm. Efficiency Range:15 to 25 psi.

 

19C: 600cfm. Efficiency Range:10 to 20 psi.

 

So the 19c boosts faster, but the Big 16g boosts higher. It all depends on how you plan to run your car.

 

CALIBER 308

Edited October 26, 2008 by Caliber308

[StarquestRescue]

Since you all ready have the 19c stick with that for now. What you need is more fuel over 5000rpm. No need to rev much past 5000rpm anyway. A MAF TRANSLATOR FOR 1G TALON/ECLIPSE and a 850 primary from an 84-86 car is probaly the cheepest option. Wide band is reqired to tune with.

http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/itemdesc....c=050DSMTRANS1G

 

Here is a dyno sheet for a 19c at 16lbs.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/fd9e333a.jpg

 

Here's one for a 17c. First two runs at 19lbs, third at 20lbs. Note that the car goes lean in a hurry over 5000rpm. i would expect the 19c car would run lean as well.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/9b481c6d.jpg

Edited October 26, 2008 by StarquestRescue

[Technology]

Just get a boost controller for now and get to a dyno shop that will test with a wideband (should be most shops). Get a baseline tune and number to see where you're at with what you have. Turn up the boost a tiny bit at a time until you start getting too lean or something else happens.

 

Then you can go looking for upgrade parts. Sometimes a dremel and grinding bit will help a lot.

[QUIKQUEST]

Are those dyno results from the MAF translator and the 850cc primary Injector? When you say "wideband" does that mean the o2 sensor or the A/F meter, or both?

 

Those dyno results on the 19c@16psi, will the Hp be greater with boost higher than 16? So let me make sure im on the right track... so to get results like that, what i wil need is:

1. MAF Translator

2. MAF sensor

3. Wideband o2

4. larger primary injector

 

Is this right so far? Do i make the tuning attempts, or have some one else do them. You guys are great!

[Tim_C.]

Hey Tim that was very helpful. You answered my question perfectly-Thank you. Can I ask you Tim..@ around 18psi,( to get to that amount of boost ) how can i do that with this turbo? What will I further need to achieve that boost from this 19c? What will I need to change? Or Add for that matter,

 

Your on top of your game man...

 

Ralph

 

 

Yes, like others have stated, you need more fuel and a better way to tune it, since stock doesn't give you anything to tune with, i.e. adjust the AF ratio. He means a wideband O2 sensor.

Then you can turn up the boost a couple PSI at a time, and tune for it until you reach the max that your fuel system can put out, or 18 PSI or so, whichever comes first.

One more thing to remember is any performance upgrade demands better overall health from the engine, like a fresh cooling system, healthy valvetrain and timing chain components, ets... My point is your $2000 limit may get eaten up real quick if you plan on getting more performance out of it. I would drive it like it is at stock boost, and save more money while it is still running. So many people go for performance and blow something up because they jumped into doing it too fast. Then they whine about having a junk car and nothing to drive. I also highly advise having another car for your daily driver so you can take the time to do it right in smaller steps.

[starion27]

Yes, like others have stated, you need more fuel and a better way to tune it, since stock doesn't give you anything to tune with, i.e. adjust the AF ratio. He means a wideband O2 sensor.

Then you can turn up the boost a couple PSI at a time, and tune for it until you reach the max that your fuel system can put out, or 18 PSI or so, whichever comes first.

One more thing to remember is any performance upgrade demands better overall health from the engine, like a fresh cooling system, healthy valvetrain and timing chain components, ets... My point is your $2000 limit may get eaten up real quick if you plan on getting more performance out of it. I would drive it like it is at stock boost, and save more money while it is still running. So many people go for performance and blow something up because they jumped into doing it too fast. Then they whine about having a junk car and nothing to drive. I also highly advise having another car for your daily driver so you can take the time to do it right in smaller steps.

 

I keep trying to tell my friends this same thing, not to have the same car for track and every day driving. it never works out cause you get power hungry and blow it up and then you don't have a car to drive. Happened to me twice and I finally learned my lession.

[BrazilBoy]

I run a 19c, not much down low but hit 2200k and its baller baller to red line all day... fast and pulls hard... I love it

[StarquestRescue]

Are those dyno results from the MAF translator and the 850cc primary Injector? When you say "wideband" does that mean the o2 sensor or the A/F meter, or both?

 

Those dyno results on the 19c@16psi, will the Hp be greater with boost higher than 16? So let me make sure im on the right track... so to get results like that, what i wil need is:

1. MAF Translator

2. MAF sensor

3. Wideband o2

4. larger primary injector

 

Is this right so far? Do i make the tuning attempts, or have some one else do them. You guys are great!

Older thread. The dyno sheet was basically a stock fuel system with just a Bosch pump and a race gas blend. I think both the s16g and the19c require bigger injectors and some thing to tune with to get to there full potential.

The MAF Translator is a good choice for most people, but the base model can not compensate for altitude changes.

[86TSiGuy]

Everybody's right here. On TBI you mostly have to overcome fuel restrictions.

But I'm a little concerned nobody mentioned any mod's for durability @18psi.

On a stock top-end 18psi could cause damage.

You also need a real good head gasket and some ARP hardware to hold that head on, good news is the bottom end is good to beyond 400hp.

Also a wideband is a must, lean out your car too bad and you get to see what half a piston looks like.

 

That being said. In TBI cars an excellent approach is also to reduce all the inefficiencies of the stock set-up. Hard pipes and exhaust to start with and then consider removing balance shafts and all the EGR, emissions crap.

 

A set of aluminum hard-pipes, a *DM intercooler, and 3" exhaust is going to bring your spool time down dramatically on any turbo.