McCain picks Palin???

[Kr0nus]

No matter how you look at it they both have around the same time in the government. For Obama it started in 1996 in the Illinois Senate and for Palin it started in 1992 as a City Counsel members. For me personally I would feel more comfortable with someone that was a Governor being President than a Senator. Senators don't really lead anyone, they just vote and push papers. You could get rid of the whole US and State Senate right now and I'd be happy. It's a waste of people and money. At least McCain lead people as a Navy Officer. Obama's experience all Senate related. None of it has to do with leading people. Also, how well do you think Obama knows about Biden? People act like they were buddies or something before he asked him to be VP.

[Kr0nus]

Taken from a similiar thread back in July.

 

 

Man I would love to see someone really new. But, it's not going to happen. Where the hell is Ross Perrot when you need him? He saw all of our economic woes coming!

[JustPaus_88TSi]

Bob Barr>Both other candidates.

 

/Thread.

[Kr0nus]

Bob Barr>Both other candidates.

 

/Thread.

 

Well you see there in lies the inherent problem with other candidates. Who? They usually get screwed by not getting any media coverage because we all know the media is biased. Since they don't report on these 3rd party candidates I don't know who in the world they are. I knew who Ron Paul was, but I didn't want to vote for him and he decided to run as a republican anyway. The media needs to really start looking at other candidates so I can. I don't want to have to do some ridiculous search or get some spam email to learn about these third party candidates. What the hell happened to equal time?

[Mazarin]

Man I would love to see someone really new.

 

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20080902/capt.cps.nlt72.020908073829.photo00.photo.default-439x512.jpg

[patra_is_here]

you people act like someone really needs experience to hold any of these offices!

 

 

i just want someone with some good ideas, a shared vision, and the possibility whoever is elected will do something to this country BESIDES send us to war, increase the deficit, lower the value of the american dollar, increase the gap between rich and poor, support some religious zealotry, and cater to corporate lobbyists.

 

i want the antithesis of the George W Bush administration

 

NOW, i do know that both parties have plenty of bad things going on, but, when it comes down to it, the current democratic nominee has the best chance of fulfilling some part of what i want in a president, and in turn, what i wish for in this country

[JustPaus_88TSi]

Well you see there in lies the inherent problem with other candidates. Who? They usually get screwed by not getting any media coverage because we all know the media is biased. Since they don't report on these 3rd party candidates I don't know who in the world they are. I knew who Ron Paul was, but I didn't want to vote for him and he decided to run as a republican anyway. The media needs to really start looking at other candidates so I can. I don't want to have to do some ridiculous search or get some spam email to learn about these third party candidates.

 

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/home/skip/?s=0618

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbHtWQ-Hj04

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Mbi3JVaTdw

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVSk4ZftD1Q

 

 

There's many more on youtube.

 

 

What the hell happened to equal time?

 

Has that ever existed?

[patra_is_here]

its all a game of control. people have been sheep since the dawn of our civilization. you can't wake the world up, and if you did, then what?

[JustPaus_88TSi]

you people act like someone really needs experience to hold any of these offices!

 

 

i just want someone with some good ideas, a shared vision, and the possibility whoever is elected will do something to this country BESIDES send us to war, increase the deficit, lower the value of the american dollar, increase the gap between rich and poor, support some religious zealotry, and cater to corporate lobbyists.

 

i want the antithesis of the George W Bush administration

 

NOW, i do know that both parties have plenty of bad things going on, but, when it comes down to it, the current democratic nominee has the best chance of fulfilling some part of what i want in a president, and in turn, what i wish for in this country

 

How much will a national healthcare program cost citizens? Will its level of care surpass our current setup? Ask Canadians who come here for medical care because they can afford it.

Religious zealot, perhaps like Rev. Wright?

 

Lobbyists?

Away from the bright lights and high-minded rhetoric of the campaign trail, Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., has quietly worked with corporate lobbyists to help pass breaks worth $12 million.

 

In his speeches, Obama has lambasted lobbyists and moneyed interests who "have turned our government into a game only they can afford to play."

 

"It's an entire culture in Washington -- some of it legal, some of it not," the Democratic hopeful told a New York crowd in June, rallying support for his ethics reform agenda.

 

But last year, at the request of a hired representative for an Australian-owned chemical corporation Nufarm, Obama introduced nine separate bills exempting the company from import fees on a range of chemical ingredients it uses in the manufacture of pesticides and herbicides. Nufarm's U.S. subsidiary is based in Illinois.

 

Nufarm wasn't the only beneficiary of Obama's efforts to reduce customs fees and duties. In early May of 2006, two Washington lobbyists registered to work on behalf of Astellas Pharma, a Japanese-owned drug company which also has offices in Illinois.

 

The lobbyists' task? "Introduce legislation to temporarily suspend customs duties for the importation of a pharmaceutical ingredient," they wrote on their lobbying forms. Less than three weeks later, the men had earned their $20,000 fee, thanks to Obama. On May 26, he introduced S. 3155, a bill specifically exempting Astellas' key ingredient from tariff payments. The bill cost the federal government more than $1 million in lost revenue, according to government estimates.

 

Together, Obama's obscure measures -- known as tariff suspensions -- steered more than $12 million away from federal coffers, according to government estimates.

 

A spokesman for the senator defended Obama's efforts on behalf of the two firms.

 

"Sen. Obama helped his constituents obtain foreign products necessary for their business at an affordable rate," said Ben LaBolt, noting that Obama made sure all the products "met strong environmental standards" before pushing to make it cheaper to import them.

 

While legal, Obama's bills on behalf of Nufarm and other companies are part of the special treatment machine Washington rolls out for special interests, say good-government watchdogs.

 

"If you have a company...there's a whole factory set up to help you get these suspensions," said Steve Ellis, president of the Washington, D.C.-based watchdog group Taxpayers for Common Sense. "It's a pay-to-play system you have to rev up and work." Hire the right lobbyist, pay the right fee, and you can save millions, he explained.

 

In Nufarm's case, Obama's staff met with a lawyer representing the company, Joel Junker, in person and on the phone several times, Junker told ABC News. Junker says he worked with Obama's staff to craft the nine bills and keep them moving forward.

 

"To the extent [the legislation] needs a little shepherding, you work with their staff, to be aware of the status, and work with the committee staff," he said, and spoke highly of Obama's staff. "Everything was very professional, very constituent-service oriented."

 

Unlike Astella's representatives, Junker did not register to lobby on behalf of Nufarm and did not disclose his fees. In an interview, Junker declined to say whether he believed his work could be considered "lobbying."

 

Obama's office said its staffers met once with Junker and once with the Astellas lobbyists, but it did not know how often the senator's staffers spoke with Junker or the Astellas lobbyists by phone. Astellas did not respond to a request for comment on this story. Nufarm Americas' marketing director, Tim Stoehr, confirmed his company had requested several tariff suspensions, including on products it "bought" from other Nufarm subsidiaries overseas.

 

A review of campaign finance records turned up no record of contributions from Nufarm to Obama. Astellas Pharma employees gave $1,100 to Obama's campaign in recent months, the documents show.

 

Junker defended tariff suspensions as good for American businesses. The high fees are charged to protect American manufacturers from being undercut by cheap imports, argued the former U.S. trade official. If no U.S. firm makes a particular item, the cost only hurts a company which needs to buy it overseas.

 

"It's nothing to be embarrassed, ashamed or suspicious of," he said.

 

In letters to Congress supporting Obama's measures, Junker justified the breaks for Nufarm to import a chemical known as 2,4 D and other ingredients by claiming they would "eliminate these unnecessary and avoidable...costs to [Nufarm's] consumers."

 

In a statement to ABC News defending the measures, Obama's spokesman echoed Junker's argument.

"Just like he fought for funding to ensure Chicago's transit system remains affordable and to invest in ethanol research, Senator Obama helped keep costs low for Illinois residents by helping them get the goods they need to do their jobs," Ben LaBolt wrote.

 

But the company's financial reports indicate that may not be the case. In a glowing financial report issued just two months after Obama introduced Nufarm's numerous tariff-lifting bills, Nufarm told its shareholders it was making more money than ever before in North America because it had increased its prices on its U.S. and Canadian customers, predominantly farmers.

 

Nufarm saw "strong revenue growth" in North America, it said in a July 31, 2006, company report. "Net profit was also up strongly," driven in part by "price rises on key products," it said. Nufarm trades on the Australian Stock Exchange.

 

When asked about the company's contrasting statements, Nufarm America's Stoehr told ABC News the financial report wasn't accurate.

 

"I don't know if I believe that," he said. "A lot of that is a little more hype." If the company had increased its prices, said Stoehr, it was only because its costs had "skyrocketed." "Our profit remained steady," said the executive.

 

In particular, "price rises on phenoxy herbicides," a family which includes 2,4 D, "improved the profitability of those products, despite no significant increase in sales volumes."

 

Economics aside, some medical researchers also harbor concerns over 2,4 D. Studies have purported to find a link between high exposure to the chemical and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, a type of cancer. Defenders of the chemical say it is safe, and note that even scientists who believe a link exists cannot explain how the chemical may cause the cancer.

 

With a dozen tariff suspension bills to his name, Obama stands out as the most prolific of any Democratic presidential hopeful on the topic. Sen. Hillary Clinton, N.Y., has introduced none, although she has co-sponsored 19 that were introduced by Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y. Seven were to benefit the Honeywell Corporation, whose lobbyist has contributed $6,500 to Clinton since 2005. Sen. Joseph Biden, Del., has introduced none.

 

Only one other 2008 presidential hopeful has introduced more tariff suspension bills than Obama. Longshot GOP candidate Sen. Sam Brownback, Kan., introduced 30 such measures in the 109th Congress. Fellow dark horse candidate Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., introduced one in 2001; Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif. have introduced none.

 

Some say the tariff suspension process isn't how Washington should operate.

 

"We all saw 'Schoolhouse Rock' and learned how Washington is supposed to work," Taxpayers for Common Sense president Steve Ellis told the Blotter on ABCNews.com. "There's no 'Schoolhouse Rock' episode on tariff suspensions."

 

In his speeches, Sen. Obama seems to agree.

 

"We need a president who sees government not as a tool to enrich well-connected friends and high-priced lobbyists, but as the defender of fairness and opportunity for every American," the candidate said in his June speech. "That's the kind of president I intend to be."

 

In the financial sector, one and a quarter million dollars have found their way into the Obama campagin. I managed to find a total of $1,761,696 in donations by corporations and lobbyists among its 100 top donor list. The largest donor was Goldman Sacs at $375,978. JP Morgan Chase was second with $216,459 while Citigroup coughed up $181,787 and Morgan Stanley only produced $109,025 to finance Obama's campaign.

Time Warner led the big business contributors to the Obama campaign with $131,485, followed by GE at $47,450 and Microsoft at $44,250. Last time I looked, each of those were 'corporations'.

 

AT&T, you know, the communications corporation, kicked in $43,483 and among insurance corporations, Blue Cross/Blue Shield managed to send along $40,150 to the Obama campaign.

 

Other corporate contributors include Boeing, Walt Disney, Vivendi, UPS, Lockheed Martin, General Motors and American Airlines.

 

I even managed to find contributions from Pfizer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Eli Lilly & Co. and GlaxoSmithKline to the tune of $23,350. And apparently Big Oil didn't want to be left out in the cold with Chevron, BP and Exxon Mobil contributing $27,059 to the non-corporation funded Obama campaign.

 

I could only find one instance where a contribution from one of these corporations had been turned back. It happened in 2004 in Obama's race for the Senate when he rejected a $1,000 contribution from Bristol-Myers Squibb. But he's apparently gotten over that, having since accepted $5,500 of their money.

 

One final note - this is just from the list of the top 100 donors. There are skads of other donors as well. To give you an idea, when you look at the entire list of donors by industry you find Barack Obama listed as one of the top recipients of pharmaceutical industry money (2nd behind Hillary Clinton at $275,934) and a top 10 recipient of oil and gas industry money ($109,912). Insurance industry? Number 5 at $414,863.

 

And all of this without mentioning the possible Jack Abramoff connection.

 

McQ also points to this November, 2007 speech by Obama. It's highly indicative of the lies he's told to gain votes.

 

"I am in this race to tell the corporate lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda in Washington are over. I have done more than any other candidate in this race to take on lobbyists - and won. They have not funded my campaign, they will not get a job in my White House, and they will not drown out the voices of the American people when I am president."

 

They most definitely are funding his campaign, and trouble-prone investment banks seeking to buy political influence are among Obama's highest donors.

Edited September 2, 2008 by JustPaus_88TSi

[Mazarin]

Just, that's a FANTASTIC post.

[JustPaus_88TSi]

its all a game of control. people have been sheep since the dawn of our civilization. you can't wake the world up, and if you did, then what?

 

 

Some civilizations have allowed others to rule them, yes. However, it's not all inclusive to everyone. My lineage(think Leif Erickson) didn't allow that and forcefully demonstrated just what being a free people was about when confronted.

 

I don't want to wake up the world, I don't care about them right now. We are the last stand in personal freedom and inalienable rights. All I hear on the radio is how other people in other countries feel about our election and our candidates. Like it frickin matters what they think. Who the hell are they? People who gave up their rights in the name of 'security'. Complete cowards. We have the absolute best nation, but we need to really work on a few things before we can play "mr. fix it" for the rest of the world.

 

It's been a new era in terms of open and accessible information due to the internet. Minds will open, especially when younger people like ourselves(i'm assuming you're in your 20's like I am)

Edited September 2, 2008 by JustPaus_88TSi

[Dcrasta]

JustPaul, that is good that you put that information there. It shows you have good 'google' skills and can research things. I challenge you to see what you can find on John McCain and The Bush / Cheney administration over the past 8 years.

 

Then look at that stuff again and see if you can see the upside of reducing a tariff on a product that could not only benefit agriculture (and indirectly the economy/farmers), and your state.

 

The evidence that Wall Street invests money into the Obama campaign says to me that the analysis think the economy would do better with a Harvard Law Graduate in the white house than someone that admits to knowing nothing about the economy. Check out how much Oil money McCain is getting(using your source :1 McCain, John ® Senate $1,394,033 Total for all energy sector -McCain, John ® Senate $2,484,835 . That the Oil companies are making $$ hand over fist (and its not helping me one bit that they are) and they are investing in McCain means to me that is more of the same ole Big Oil $$ in the future with McCain .

 

BTW. McCain is in 3rd place behind 1: Obama, and 2: Clinton in pharmaceutical $ McCain, John ® Senate $4,189,330 . Although half of what is listed for Obama, its still 4.1 Million. He has friends in that industry. Obama isn't stupid. He needs $$ just as much as the rest of the candidates. Don't hate because he knows how to sell himself. He has qualifications and is a good talker, seems well prepared, and presents himself and his message well.

 

Do you want the guy next door to run the country. Do you want more 'Awe Shucks, I made a mistake. I cant pronounce a regular word when I'm speaking to a world audience. I fail.'

 

Do you want a mental midget as a president. Do you care that the president should at least appear smarter than the average teenager (or 5th Grader?).

 

No thanks. I want a strong dollar, good vigorous economy that is growing and allows opportunities to be created over more of this 'Bomb Iran' War War spread ourselves all over the globe mentality.

 

As far as the other 'scandal' , all I got to say is keep it in prospective. You can be a non violent person, but if you play hockey you have to hit and be hit. Doesn't mean you can't be a team player or play by the rules (Although some people cheat and play dirty). BTW. I think what the country needs is a team leader, to bring Team America back . Not a Maverick that takes a hard left or right on a whim.

 

Just expressing my opinion, not trying to offend anyone directly

Edited September 2, 2008 by Dcrasta

[JustPaus_88TSi]

Just, that's a FANTASTIC post.

 

Thanks.. I mean no disrespect to anyone in this thread. But realise we are dealing with the same people here and the only way to differentiate between them is by what color shirts they wear.

 

 

This country was bought and sold long ago and the politicians and others at the time knew it.

 

 

“I have never yet had anyone who could, through the use of logic and reason, justify the Federal Government borrowing the use of its own money... I believe the time will come when people will demand that this be changed. I believe the time will come in this country when they will actually blame you and me and everyone else connected with the Congress for sitting idly by and permitting such an idiotic system to continue.â€

Congressman Wright Patman

 

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws."

Mayer Amschel Rothschild, International Banker

 

“Thus, our national circulating medium is now at the mercy of loan transactions of banks, which lend, not money, but promises to supply money they do not possess.â€

Irving Fisher, economist and author

 

“’The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented.

Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin. Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough money to buy it back again...

Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. But if you want to continue to be slaves of the banks and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit’.â€

Sir Josiah Stamp Director, Bank of England 1928-1941

(reputed to be the 2nd richest man in Britain at the time)

 

“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world, no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.â€

 

Woodrow Wilson

 

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great

publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion

for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if

we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more

sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty

of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National autodetermination

practiced in past centuries"

David Rockefeller in an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting in June of 1991

 

The Federal Reserve (Banks) are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this Nation is run by the International Bankers. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks, hereinafter called the FED. They are not government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers.

 

Louis McFadden, speaking to Congress

[Mazarin]

http://i37.tinypic.com/sgitjp.jpg

 

Goooooooood bless Americaaaaaaaaaaaa

[lmwii]

Umm, at least Bill Clinton had traveled (and studied) to Europe, (Oxford) and knew who the leaders of the world were before he was elected. Bush had never been to Europe before becoming president. Explains a little of his ignorance to the cultures of the world . We all have to live in the same world, the days of 'Those people being too far away to mess with the US' are over.

umm, we aren't voting for bush. umm, palin is a VP candidate, not presidential. umm, i'm not voting republican, so, umm, maybe you should, umm, take your, umm, bias elsewhere.

 

umm.

[JustPaus_88TSi]

JustPaul, that is good that you put that information there. It shows you have good 'google' skills and can research things. I challenge you to see what you can find on John McCain and The Bush / Cheney administration over the past 8 years.

 

You and I both know we don't have that kind of time. I'm not proposing that McCain be elected, quite the contrary. Bush/Cheney have nothing to do with this.

 

I know all too well that I don't care for McCain, seeing how he's from my state. The reasons why deserve its own post.

 

 

 

 

Then look at that stuff again and see if you can see the upside of reducing a tariff on a product that could not only benefit agriculture (and indirectly the economy/farmers), and your state.

 

It's not about why he chose to do that, it's about making his 'local' friends happy. Which is exactly what he says he's not about.

 

The evidence that Wall Street invests money into the Obama campaign says to me that the analysis think the economy would do better with a Harvard Law Graduate in the white house than someone that admits to knowing nothing about the economy. Check out how much Oil money McCain is getting(using your source :1 McCain, John ® Senate $1,394,033 Total for all energy sector -McCain, John ® Senate $2,484,835 . That the Oil companies are making $$ hand over fist (and its not helping me one bit that they are) and they are investing in McCain means to me that is more of the same ole Big Oil $$ in the future with McCain .

 

Again, McCain isn't sitting here saying that he doesn't take "so and so's" money, only to find out that he does in fact take it. Obama does. I wouldn't have an issue with it if Obama never talked so much trash about lobbyists and how they're degrading the government. He is right about that though.

 

Since when did anyone trust lawyers?

 

BTW. McCain is in 3rd place behind 1: Obama, and 2: Clinton in pharmaceutical $ McCain, John ® Senate $4,189,330 . Although half of what is listed for Obama, its still 4.1 Million. He has friends in that industry. Obama isn't stupid. He needs $$ just as much as the rest of the candidates. Don't hate because he knows how to sell himself. He has qualifications and is a good talker, seems well prepared, and presents himself and his message well.

 

I don't hate because he needs the money, I know he needs it. I hate because he lied about it. Period. He can't be real about it.

 

A good talker? Please. Haven't you heard him taking questions on the spot that don't have pre-written forms of answers? He stumbles, backtracks and contradicts himself left and right like all the other suit and tie wearing talking heads in washington. He's mediocre at best.

 

 

Do you want the guy next door to run the country. Do you want more 'Awe Shucks, I made a mistake. I cant pronounce a regular word when I'm speaking to a world audience. I fail.'

 

 

Do you want a mental midget as a president. Do you care that the president should at least appear smarter than the average teenager (or 5th Grader?).

 

Again, Bush has what to do with this? Nada.

 

People who say McCain is the next Bush are basing that on having nothing else to say. McCain has disagreed with plenty of Bush's policies.

 

Oh wait, he's running on the Republican ticket. He must be the same in every aspect. If that's all you have, there's no reason to discuss this further.

 

 

No thanks. I want a strong dollar, good vigorous economy that is growing and allows opportunities to be created over more of this 'Bomb Iran' War War spread ourselves all over the globe mentality.

 

Yep, Democrats never involved the country in unjust psuedo wars for political or monetary gains. Nah.

 

Want change? Get rid of the 'two main party' system.

 

As far as the other 'scandal' , all I got to say is keep it in prospective. You can be a non violent person, but if you play hockey you have to hit and be hit. Doesn't mean you can't be a team player or play by the rules (Although some people cheat and play dirty). BTW. I think what the country needs is a team leader, to bring Team America back . Not a Maverick that takes a hard left or right on a whim.

 

Just expressing my opinion, not trying to offend anyone directly

 

Team America? This country is a corporation and we're discussing the election of the CEO and COO.

 

This country was screwed before our grandparents were born.

[patra_is_here]

JUSTPAUS: i havent had a time to read everytthing u posted. i just wanted to say that i have no idea how much universal health care will cost th gov (aka our tax money), because i dont know anything about current proposed systems. but, if it's less money than the current monthly expenditures by the US on things i don't see as good for society, i will not complain about the increased cost. as the tax difference will be less than the cost of a single hospital visit. universal health care is a complicated issue and really i dont know too much about it.

 

all i do know is that i'm not poor enough to get state healthcare, yet i'm not making enough money to afford health insurance.

[Edde]

JUSTPAUS: i havent had a time to read everytthing u posted. i just wanted to say that i have no idea how much universal health care will cost th gov (aka our tax money), because i dont know anything about current proposed systems. but, if it's less money than the current monthly expenditures by the US on things i don't see as good for society, i will not complain about the increased cost. as the tax difference will be less than the cost of a single hospital visit. universal health care is a complicated issue and really i dont know too much about it.

 

all i do know is that i'm not poor enough to get state healthcare, yet i'm not making enough money to afford health insurance.

 

Along with JP's excellent remark about corporations is a bit of corporate hysteria over universal healthcare. As always is the case with critical issues, there is an element of truth - as in sometimes folks needing to come here for a proceedure - but that's NOT the norm. If we spread our risk to INCLUDE 40 some million more people and take the profit motive back from for-profit healthcare we will have better outrcomes at lower cost. We are near or at the bottom statisically for developed nations in many categories, and one of few who don't insure everybody.

[Edde]

- I'm making a new post JP's remark.

[Caliber308]

What the dueces? Reaching for the Hillary supporters is he? Looks like a cry of desperation.

 

You have to admit, for being 44 years old.......SHES HOT !!!!

 

CALIBER 308

[jolyrgr]

Along with JP's excellent remark about corporations is a bit of corporate hysteria over universal healthcare. As always is the case with critical issues, there is an element of truth - as in sometimes folks needing to come here for a proceedure - but that's NOT the norm. If we spread our risk to INCLUDE 40 some million more people and take the profit motive back from for-profit healthcare we will have better outrcomes at lower cost. We are near or at the bottom statisically for developed nations in many categories, and one of few who don't insure everybody.

 

If there is no profit in health care, then it will cease to develop at any noticeable rate. We have the most up to date health care procedures for a reason...competition. The next "better" drug for an ailment, the next new procedure that revolutionizes the field, the next trauma center that can see twice the patients in half the time, all driven by the financial need to be better than the other guy to win his business. We have the most up-to-date equipment to keep the competitive edge. When was the last time you witnessed a government employee (which is what medical staff will become under socialization) going the extra mile, staying open a little later, squeezing in a couple more "customers", just because it was the right thing to do?

Some of the wife's family are still in Europe where everyone is covered. A standard appointment is a bit more difficult than here but the difference is when you need to see a specialist. Plan on waiting months. If you have never had a problem that required someone specialized in a specific area, then consider yourself lucky. I can GUARANTEE you that if my kid had not had the option of going to specialists (note the plural term) that she would not be half as well off as she is now. Without going into the specifics, it took us 5 doctors till we got someone that had a clue. even then, it took another that specialized in her type of ailment to pinpoint the treatment necessary. This would not have happened in socialized medicine. She would have had an unnecessary operation at less than a year old, leaving behind lasting complications, for something that just took the proper understanding and treatment. As it is now, traces of this condition are all but gone.

 

It is sad that there are so many uninsured, so many that cannot afford or do not have an employer that can justify medical insurance. Do realize this tho...as evil as these insurance companies seem, they help regulate the rising costs. If you doubt me, just compare the amount of compensation a Dr. gets from an insured person and an uninsured one. The uninsured will pay more every time. Everyone needs some kind of coverage. Perhaps State or Federal coverage limits need to be revised. Perhaps procedural costs should be regulated more. There are more viable solutions than knee-jerking to one extreme or the other. Unfortunately, I have yet to hear anything close from anyone.

 

 

[/threadjack]

[Caliber308]

You pretty much stole the keys off my keyboard.

 

Honestly I don't know why Obama picked Biden.

 

When you have been alive as long as I have, Then you will know. Biden has a lot of experience in Foreign Relations. He is the Rep. Chairman on that committee in the Senate. That is Obamas weak point, no experience in Foreign relations or military matters.

 

CALIBER 308

Edited September 3, 2008 by Caliber308

[Dcrasta]

umm, we aren't voting for bush. umm, palin is a VP candidate, not presidential. umm, i'm not voting republican, so, umm, maybe you should, umm, take your, umm, bias elsewhere.

 

umm.

 

 

You've got a typing or speech problem? So sad.. Well, maybe if you read really slow and sound it out you will understand. Palin is a VP candidate. But, as the person next in line if the President dies, she should be evaluated also. Understand? Read it twice if you have to.

[lmwii]

You've got a typing or speech problem? So sad.. Well, maybe if you read really slow and sound it out you will understand. Palin is a VP candidate. But, as the person next in line if the President dies, she should be evaluated also. Understand? Read it twice if you have to.

that's your impediment my friend, check your quote. and if 4 years as governor of arkansas or 2 years as a senator qualify one for president, 2 years in alaska qualify one for VP.

[Dcrasta]

that's your impediment my friend, check your quote. and if 4 years as governor of arkansas or 2 years as a senator qualify one for president, 2 years in alaska qualify one for VP.

 

 

We will just have to agree to disagree. With Mccain and Palin I see a train wreck ahead. Hope Im wrong if they are elected.