IS there a MSD 6AL installation write up

[Caliber308]

I dont need your advice. Thanks

 

Problem solved

 

Thats fine. I'll put you on the list.

 

CALIBER 308

[Caliber308]

A refrence for others to use as needed:

 

If you think that way, Do you want me to add you to my list of :"Do not reply to posts by this member"??? Just asking. I'll make a deal with you and others here. Dont reply to my responses, and I will not reply to yours. Deal???

 

CALIBER 308

[FlattopMike]

I dont need your advice. Thanks

 

Problem solved

 

Sully,

I hope that my question didn't hijack the thread too much but I think we are both looking for the same advise but advise is hard to get when so much non-constructive critisism is being thrown around.

 

Chad,

When you went with the 4 wire adapter and eliminated your ignitor, did you lose the safety of the knock sensor? I like the idea of having some protection against detonation in case I get some crap gas or my MBC fails or a mutitude of other things go wrong.

 

Cal,

I don't need your advise.

[Sully]

Sully,

I hope that my question didn't hijack the thread too much but I think we are both looking for the same advise but advise is hard to get when so much non-constructive critisism is being thrown around.

No problem... My question was answered already. These ones would come up eventually.

[blue_crush]

Sully, post a thread when you get that 2step installed. I wanted to do the same thing.

[Sully]

Sully, post a thread when you get that 2step installed. I wanted to do the same thing.

 

The 2 step is the easiest part. Its just a power wire, ground and a switch, It plugs into the RPM chip port on the 6AL.

 

I'll do it though.... I still need to get tach adapter frst.

Edited May 1, 2008 by Sully

[PDX87Starion]

Perhaps we should inform all the guys at NASCAR, NHRA, SCCA, etc. that a MSD ignition is a waist of money and a stock

20 year old mitsu igniter system is perfectly adequate.

 

Cal I know what your getting at as far as spending money on "special" sparkplugs or magic wires that are supposed

to give you a huge better spark, as not being worth the money, but this wasnt a question of whether to get a MSD its about

how to hook it up.

 

Your really funny. Certain things you say you must replace or upgrade for "piece of mind" for a performance engine, and other things you say

your a fool or its a waste of money if you change it from stock. All based on your own experience. Do you think you would have the same opinion

if the stock ignitor took a dump on you 300 miles from home, and left you with a $400 tow bill? What if that happened twice? Then you would

be preaching..."anyone who doesnt upgrade the ignition is stupid and asking for trouble", and "you need a rev limiter like me or your gay" "look at my mods", "I did this and that so that means I'm right." LOL

[Chad]

Chad,

When you went with the 4 wire adapter and eliminated your ignitor, did you lose the safety of the knock sensor? I like the idea of having some protection against detonation in case I get some crap gas or my MBC fails or a mutitude of other things go wrong.

 

Yah, I lost knock retard, but it only retartds ~4 degrees anyway. Its helpful and better than nothing, but it's probalby not enough to save a motor in a total component failure, perhaps just enough to compensate for bad gas, the only reason why I suspect mitsu put it there.

 

It was so long ago, I couldn't help you with wiring. I went MPI arround 2001 so I don't have much current advice to offer on modifying the stock setups.

 

Forgot to mention, it did idle a little better too

[TurboRaider]

I have the MSD on my red car. Along with the rev limiter options it actually smoothed my idle out and the car seems more responsive. I haven't dyno'd it yet so I can't say for a fact that it helped anything other than the idle and over-rev prevention.

Jimmy

 

Same thing on mine and my fuel economy picked up a tiny bit... Spark plugs dont last very long though.

 

Kevin C

[chiplee]

Anyone ever seen an installation write up for hawk users? Doubt it but it's worth a try. I own a 6AL with tach adapter but have never installed it. I already have a rev-limiter integrated into the Hawk ECU. I got the MSD for a more complete combustion event. I guess I'm buying what MSD is claiming their product can do:

 

"It will increase the overall performance of everything from the loaded work truck to the bracket street cars cruising the boulevard. The hot multiple sparks ensure complete combustion of the air/fuel mixture even under the worst conditions possible. The MSD 6A improves power, quickens throttle response, smooths out idle and starting, reduces spark plug fouling, and improves mileage while reducing emissions. All sparks, including each multiple spark, is 110 milliJoules of spark energy. Steps up the primary voltage to 470 volts. Spark series lasts for 20° of crankshaft rotation. Operates at full power with a supply of 10 - 18 volts and will run down to 5 volts."

 

If they were lying, and selling it to millions of people, I think they'd get caught in the lie, so I trust them to accurately represent the capabilities of the product, and I buy it. Can't hurt to upgrade 20 year old components, and if one spark is good, two sparks should be better. especially since we know for a fact that we don't get complete combustion of all atomized fuel in the chamber. Why not fire the plug again and burn some more?

[ronin1653]

i just want one because everyone else has one!!!! lol... :emot-bandwagon:

[Caliber308]

i just want one because everyone else has one!!!! lol... :emot-bandwagon:

 

SEE, They suckered you into it. lol,lol.

 

CALIBER 308

[Caliber308]

Perhaps we should inform all the guys at NASCAR, NHRA, SCCA, etc. that a MSD ignition is a waist of money.

 

When my Starion runs in any of those three sanctioning bodies, to be competitive, I might reconcider. For now driving it on the street, My 20 year old system works fine. YOU DONT NEED IT !!!!!! Unless you plan on running: NASCAR,NHRA or SCCA or maybe F-1 lol,lol. How do you come up with a Starquest compairison to those three racing organizations that you mentioned?????? SCCA ?? maybe. And how many members run their cars in that???? Take a poll to see how many members just run their cars on the street.

 

CALIBER 308

Edited May 3, 2008 by Caliber308

[Caliber308]

Anyone ever seen an installation write up for hawk users? Doubt it but it's worth a try. I own a 6AL with tach adapter but have never installed it. I already have a rev-limiter integrated into the Hawk ECU. I got the MSD for a more complete combustion event. I guess I'm buying what MSD is claiming their product can do:

 

"It will increase the overall performance of everything from the loaded work truck to the bracket street cars cruising the boulevard. The hot multiple sparks ensure complete combustion of the air/fuel mixture even under the worst conditions possible. The MSD 6A improves power, quickens throttle response, smooths out idle and starting, reduces spark plug fouling, and improves mileage while reducing emissions. All sparks, including each multiple spark, is 110 milliJoules of spark energy. Steps up the primary voltage to 470 volts. Spark series lasts for 20° of crankshaft rotation. Operates at full power with a supply of 10 - 18 volts and will run down to 5 volts."

 

If they were lying, and selling it to millions of people, I think they'd get caught in the lie, so I trust them to accurately represent the capabilities of the product, and I buy it. Can't hurt to upgrade 20 year old components, and if one spark is good, two sparks should be better. especially since we know for a fact that we don't get complete combustion of all atomized fuel in the chamber. Why not fire the plug again and burn some more?

 

Chip,

I have a question. If your stock system is performing fine, why install the MSD???? This is how I look at it. If your stock system is lacking then maybe you need it. If not, WHY ??? And the rev limiter excuse is a "cop out" to good driving skills. Like one member stated: "I was driving in the snow and my wheels slipped and it overreved" What in the hell are you doing driving a rear-wheel drive, light weight car in the snow, in the first place??? Sounds like a accident in the making !!!

 

CALIBER 308

Edited May 3, 2008 by Caliber308

[chiplee]

Chip,

I have a question. If your stock system is performing fine, why install the MSD???? This is how I look at it. If your stock system is lacking then maybe you need it. If not, WHY ??? And the rev limiter excuse is a "cop out" to good driving skills.

 

CALIBER 308

 

I have to firmly disagree on both accounts, sorry. The "good driving skills" point is a stretch. I don't have the time or the money to drive enough to call myself "good". As I get better, I will undoubtedly miss a shift or, as chad said, roll over a slick spot. Either of those could result in an over-rev condition. The first major over-rev I had was actually after I installed the hawk. I had the rev limiter set to 7500rpm for some stupid reason and I hit it, missing second around a turn in town. It's been set at 6k ever since.

 

On the "why upgrade if it's working fine" point; I simply don't follow the logic. I explained that I admit I'm trusting MSD to accurately represent their product. Given the number of race teams that have used it I can only assume that their lies would be exposed rather quickly if they chose to tell them. Also, everything about my car was "working fine" when I got it, so by your logic would I still be making 155whp on a 12a and TBI? Maybe that's a cheap shot but I can't think of a more applicable example. I haven't gotten to the MSD box install because it's been low on my priority list but I explained that the idea of dual spark just appeals to me, and makes good logical sense when I think about it. If one spark results in incomplete combustion and a small amount of pure gas out the exhaust, then what's the harm in firing the plug twice? I might be fooling myself, but I don't really have anything left to buy, and I bought this a long time ago so I want to bolt it on and see how it feels. I really remember having felt a big difference when I went to thick spark plug wires and a hot coil. I expect this to be noticeable also.

[Sully]

:deadhorse: Let just agree to disagree and move on.

[TurboRaider]

Chip,

I have a question. If your stock system is performing fine, why install the MSD???? This is how I look at it. If your stock system is lacking then maybe you need it. If not, WHY ??? And the rev limiter excuse is a "cop out" to good driving skills. Like one member stated: "I was driving in the snow and my wheels slipped and it overreved" What in the hell are you doing driving a rear-wheel drive, light weight car in the snow, in the first place??? Sounds like a accident in the making !!!

 

CALIBER 308

 

My experience is that the more modified the engine the greater the benefit. On motors with a lot of cam where you get greater mixture dilution the MSD helped a lot as did a couple of other tuning tricks. As you get closer to stock the gains are smaller.

 

Our little Hemi is known for slow combustion speed and stock has a reasonable amount of valve overlap. Stock its no race engine but it my experience it does respond to a stronger spark.

 

The MSD uses capacitive discharge to drive the coil. Typically these systems have bit less total power per spark than a Kettering type systems but the rise time is a lot better. The faster rise time helps prevent misfire from fouled plugs. All plugs will look a bit fouled on startup until they come up to temp. On a turbo motor you run cold plugs to keep plug temps in range under boost. Basically the plugs are not running very hot under normal driving so insuring good ignition is harder, they stay cold longer and off boost are running colder than is optimal.

 

That’s where a fast rise time spark can help. In general CD ignitions are not as good with lean mixtures, but a multi strike CD seems to get around that issue.

 

Kevin C

[Caliber308]

My experience is that the more modified the engine the greater the benefit. On motors with a lot of cam where you get greater mixture dilution the MSD helped a lot as did a couple of other tuning tricks. As you get closer to stock the gains are smaller.

 

Our little Hemi is known for slow combustion speed and stock has a reasonable amount of valve overlap. Stock its no race engine but it my experience it does respond to a stronger spark.

 

The MSD uses capacitive discharge to drive the coil. Typically these systems have bit less total power per spark than a Kettering type systems but the rise time is a lot better. The faster rise time helps prevent misfire from fouled plugs. All plugs will look a bit fouled on startup until they come up to temp. On a turbo motor you run cold plugs to keep plug temps in range under boost. Basically the plugs are not running very hot under normal driving so insuring good ignition is harder, they stay cold longer and off boost are running colder than is optimal.

 

That’s where a fast rise time spark can help. In general CD ignitions are not as good with lean mixtures, but a multi strike CD seems to get around that issue.

 

Kevin C

 

Thanks for the information.

 

CALIBER 308

[FlattopMike]

I'm going to bring this thread back to life because I finally got around to installing mine and I have a question.

Where do you guys get your ignition positive from?

I have read somewhere that the wiper motor is a good source but doesn't power drop out when the key is in the start position?

Also that is at the oposite corner of the engine compartment.

Can I tap off of one of the wires going to the ignitor?

[TheMarsVolta]

Your really funny. Certain things you say you must replace or upgrade for "piece of mind" for a performance engine, and other things you say

your a fool or its a waste of money if you change it from stock. All based on your own experience. Do you think you would have the same opinion

if the stock ignitor took a dump on you 300 miles from home, and left you with a $400 tow bill? What if that happened twice? Then you would

be preaching..."anyone who doesnt upgrade the ignition is stupid and asking for trouble", and "you need a rev limiter like me or your gay" "look at my mods", "I did this and that so that means I'm right." LOL

 

 

I hate to bring this thread back from the dead, but I will totally agree with PDX. I was on my way back from North Carolina when the Ignitor took a crap on me in the middle of HWY US-17. It was a nightmare getting a tow truck to come all the over at 2AM and to tow me back to Virginia from the middle of nowhere. I've heard the dreaded rumors that the Ignitor is not all that reliable. I learned the hard way. If I would've spent a couple of extra hundred dollars on upgrading my 20 year old ignition system, I wouldn't of paid three times more later. I finally switched over to the MSD setup. I felt better throttle response along with a smoother idle. I know some people have their opinions on the system, but the MSD system works wonders on reliability. I have it installed on my 318 cid. Mopar V8 with a HiPo Comp Cam and I don't care wt.... anyone says. I works wonders. Money is well worth it. Sorry again for bringing this thread up, but I don't wish for anyone to go through this unfortunate ordeal I went through.

[Indiana]

he is meaning an 84-87 ignitor, not an 83 or 88/89 ignitor and the msd box may be fried if you didn't unhook it if at any time you have had WELDING done on the car

[Caliber308]

I hate to bring this thread back from the dead, but I will totally agree with PDX. I was on my way back from North Carolina when the Ignitor took a crap on me in the middle of HWY US-17. It was a nightmare getting a tow truck to come all the over at 2AM and to tow me back to Virginia from the middle of nowhere. I've heard the dreaded rumors that the Ignitor is not all that reliable. I learned the hard way. If I would've spent a couple of extra hundred dollars on upgrading my 20 year old ignition system, I wouldn't of paid three times more later. I finally switched over to the MSD setup. I felt better throttle response along with a smoother idle. I know some people have their opinions on the system, but the MSD system works wonders on reliability. I have it installed on my 318 cid. Mopar V8 with a HiPo Comp Cam and I don't care wt.... anyone says. I works wonders. Money is well worth it. Sorry again for bringing this thread up, but I don't wish for anyone to go through this unfortunate ordeal I went through.

 

If you have a MSD set up and don't eliminate the ignitor with the 8920 Tach adapter, and the ignitor goes out..... Your still stuck :hmm3grin2orange: I have a 1987 Starion with the stock 1987 ignitor that came on the car from Japan, and i've never had a ignitor failure?????? I think some of you guys that have ignitor failures are Steam cleaning too much under the hood, that or leaving it parked outside all the time exposing the ignitor to the elements or perhaps beat on it with a hammer when your car won't start

 

CALIBER 308

Edited August 27, 2008 by Caliber308