83 Engine - Head question

[StrayWolf83]

Hi Gang...

 

Need a little informaton. I have run around the common loss of Radiator Fluid and milky white oil.

 

I pulled the head and checked it over and can't see any really cracked or damaged in a basic visual, but I am no expert and I am not sure what/where I should looking at for damage.

(just looking at the head in general, it actually looks very clean and in very good shape.)

 

Question... Can I change out the 83 jet-head to a newer non-jet head which out getting into any issues??

(got a feeling a will...but not sure)

 

thanks

[Chad]

95% of the time, they crack between the valve seats, from one seat to the other. You'll often have to remove some carbon to see it well. If you have some "orange" cleaner (for greesye hands) it removes the carbon pretty quickly with a scrub brush.

 

Any g54B head will fit your motor, and you can re-use your valves to prevent a valvetrain mis-match.

[83_project_toy]

95% of the time, they crack between the valve seats, from one seat to the other. You'll often have to remove some carbon to see it well. If you have some "orange" cleaner (for greesye hands) it removes the carbon pretty quickly with a scrub brush.

 

Any g54B head will fit your motor, and you can re-use your valves to prevent a valvetrain mis-match.

 

 

what he said. the 83's valve train is specific to 83's and no other years. most heads you'll buy wont have strong enough valve springs and could cause issues. so if you can find a bare head and take all the parts from your old head and put them on the new one.

[StrayWolf83]

what he said. the 83's valve train is specific to 83's and no other years. most heads you'll buy wont have strong enough valve springs and could cause issues. so if you can find a bare head and take all the parts from your old head and put them on the new one.

 

 

-----------------------

 

Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

Well,.. checked over the 83 jet head really well last night ..... and YEP .... she be cracked 3rd cylinder inbetween the valves. (also had local Mechanic check and he confirmed it was cracked, along a nice hole inside)

 

I do have a good (tested and machined) stock non-jet head that came off a running flatty that had 70k miles on it. (purchased from "emagdnim")

 

So,... I should be able to change over the 83 parts to the non-jet head with no issues??? (FYI,... in new water with this stuff.. never done this type of work before)

 

Also, I am guess I will need to get a Jet-Valve Eliminator kit for the install since I am going from a Jet-Head 83 parts to a non-jet head??

[Dred_85.5_TSI]

Hi,

 

No you will not need a Jet Vavle Elim. kit, these are put in place of the Jet Valves to eliminate them on heads that had them from the factory, since you are going to a non Jet valve head. Just swap over your valves, springs, etc from your old head.

[Tim_C.]

Well, you should be able to keep the later year valves in there. You can even use the shorter screws on the '83 rockers. Those will work fine with the stock cam. People even use them with a reduced base performance cam, but they barely stick through the nut. The '83 valves are longer, but you don't want to swap old valves into a newly machined head. The machine shop should have fitted the valves to the head, so they will seal much better. If you seap the '83 valves in, you will need to have them fitted to the seat professionally so they seal correctly for good compression and crisp opening and closing.

I would just swap the rockers and shafts (you really don't have to swap the shafts either. Be sure to keep the same cam caps on the head they came on. They are a machine fit to the head.

Or, if the ehad is fitted with hydraulic rockers already, leave it alone and put it on there as is. It's up to you as to what rockers you want to run. Just be sure to keep the hydraulic shafts with the hydraulic rockers. Mech rockers will work with any shaft.

If the head is non-jet, do your valvesprings a favor and remove at least the jet-valve adjusting screw and nuts from the arm on the intake rockers. Some people like to cut off the arm too.

The geometry is better with the longer, '83 valves in there, so if you plan on high revs, you might want to have them fitted.

Also, the retainers and keepers for the '83 valves are rare, and only work on those valves, so keep them all together as a set, even if you throw away the cracked head.

[Dad]

Tim, I have wolf's head here. some of the top of the valves and the rocker screws look fretted. ( sri wolf- i haven't let you know this yet- been tied up with wife in hosp.)

Any way i canget him the 83 valves, but was considering changing to the late model valves and retainers. I stock the longer adjusting screws. Whats your thought on converting?

Also- don't you have a line on reman rockers and shafts? I saw some wear on these shafts and possibly the cam- i haven't looked in depth yet.

 

Dad.

[StrayWolf83]

And the fun just keeps coming....

 

... Ok ... there is no crying in StarQuest Club !!!!

 

The question now is.... How much of an issue will it be to go to a shorter Valve and a different cam if I still I am running a 83 bottom end and the 83 Fuel injection system. ???

 

Randy.... All I can say is see what you can do to help me getting the 83 Starion back up and running.

 

Unless someone thinks it would be better to yank the complete engine and drop another in???

 

:confused0024:

[FlattopMike]

The bottom end is pretty much the same for all years and the 83 ECI works great with any head combo.

[83_project_toy]

The bottom end is pretty much the same for all years and the 83 ECI works great with any head combo.

 

 

if the 83 eci setup is working then keep it. it's the best of all years for tb's and injectors. also the bottom end is bascily the same for all years unless it's a early 83 and then the only difference is the oil which is a block pickup instead of the pump pickup. also the early 83 oil pump is alot cheaper

[StrayWolf83]

Thanks everyone for your help.... I had Randy (Dad) build me a new non-jet head with 83 parts.

YEAH !!!!!!!!!!!,...... I'm back in business.

 

But I still need a little help.

I need to set the height on all the valves before installing.

 

Anyone know the correct setting for the 83 valves????

[Dad]

Thanks everyone for your help.... I had Randy (Dad) build me a new non-jet head with 83 parts.

YEAH !!!!!!!!!!!,...... I'm back in business.

 

But I still need a little help.

I need to set the height on all the valves before installing.

 

Anyone know the correct setting for the 83 valves????

 

 

My info is .006 on exhaust and .004 on intake.

try search for valve setting- you are not setting the height- you are setting the clearance.

 

Dad

[StrayWolf83]

... Up-date ....

 

I have received the my beautiful non-jet head from Dad and have set all the clearances on in-take / exhaust valves.

I have the head back on the motor and have torqued all the bolts down to specs.

 

Thank you everyone for all your assistance ... especially Dad (Randy).

.

[Dad]

hey It's not running yet!

 

 

Just be sure to install an additive for cam break in.

 

a lot of problems from lack of zinc in the oils.

 

Dad

[83starionT]

Yea i'm having the same trouble in my 83. Just a hint of milk in the oil. And not everytime i put the dipstick back in. No white smoke out the exahust anymore after i fixed the TB gasket and lower radiator hose, it blew and overheated. GRR. IT still idles bad now but runs fine normal driving. Could i have fouled a plug by having all that coolant on my plugs? I thought of chaning my HG, but i figured i'd come read here first.

[Tim_C.]

I'm sorry I didn't keep watch on this thread.

 

Yes, I can get remanufactured rockers and shafts that are matched sets for smoother action, among other upgrades from OEM. It isn't cheap though.

 

I think .008 exhaust and .006 intake is tight enough. You can probably get away with the specs Dad gave too. It will run stronger the tighter it is, but just don't go too tight.

 

[shift1313]

Tim, a little off topic but along the same lines, can you get cam shafts ground with oversized bearing surfaces? say the cam journal surface is messed up on cam/head. is there a way around it? Curious:) thanks

[Tim_C.]

The task of machining the head cam journal caps can be performed by any machine shop. (I think that is what you are asking?) Your local shop would save shipping. Anyway, the caps must be ground and fitted with the oversized bearings. I haven't ever heard of anyone doing it to save a cam with journal issues. I'm sure that can be done too, and then using the bearings to fit the undersized cam. I am not sure if anyone does machining to downsize the cam journals enough to simply add bearings to the existing head without any machining to the head itself. That sounds like it may be a decent solution except whatever problem that ruins a cam enough to require journal repair, will most likely also require head removal at least to clean it, if not a complete engine disassembly.

So far, the consensus is still to replace the entire head.

 

Tim, a little off topic but along the same lines, can you get cam shafts ground with oversized bearing surfaces? say the cam journal surface is messed up on cam/head. is there a way around it? Curious:) thanks

 

[shift1313]

in my case it was the paint on the head that go into the oiling system and ruined a lot of stuff including the cam and journals on the head. The head/paint issue for me was nothing but trouble but the head has low miles on it so i was hoping to have it dipped and have the journals fixed. Fixing the cam really isnt an issue because I would like to upgrade the cam anyway. Im building another block and just trying to figure out what parts i can have fixed/use and what needs to be replaced.

[Tim_C.]

Well, it matters how bad the grooves are too. When a groove is formed, the edges of it are flared up/higher than the rest of the journal. The groove below the journal plane is not a problem. It is those edges that must be cut down without touching the journal. Then a very, very slight journal clean up after the edges are fixed. The groove itself will actually lubricate better as long as the edges aren't flared.

Kind of like OEM main bearings with the "V" shaped grooves in them near the holes, or aftermarket ones with the groove through the entire bearing.

[shift1313]

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/cylheadlarge4.jpg

 

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/cylheadlarge3.jpg

 

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/camlarge1.jpg

[Tim_C.]

The head looks like it is probably fine. You can gently smooth it out some with emery cloth.

The cam front journal looks questionable. If you can't catch a fingernail on it, then it is probably okay.

The second journal is fine. I like to smooth them out just a touch with emery cloth on a lathe at a very slow speed.

If you can catch a fingernail on it, then it should be professionally cleaned up by a cam grinding specialist.

The problem is that there is very little tolerance there. Like .004 or so.

[shift1313]

Yeah i cleaned up the journals after that pic using 1000grit and some 10w40. My main concern would be destroying a new cam.

 

thanks tim