Boosted77. Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Very nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hincher Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I bought all kinds of starters, AWD, FWD first gen, second gen, they all have different listings but I will be damned if I can tell any difference, but this one 'took one for the team' http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0124.jpg Even though I had run all the numbers, I had to see to believe the starter was properly located to the AWD flywheel http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0123.jpg I also needed to make sure I had a full gear engagement without being too tight http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0125.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0126.jpg the starter location is not located by the starter bolts, so this plate is an important locater http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0127.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0128.jpg because the bellhousing had to be flowed down so hard, the trans had open gaps in the front of the housing http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0129.jpg so I cleaned up the instalation by adding another cover plate at the back of the bellhousing to create a smooter appearance http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0130.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0131.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 we should have bill focus on the t5 swap. what can the t56 do that the t5 can't in the starion?. T5 is more affordable and many options. Both of these are made to deal with brutal v8 torque but one is lighter and more affordable among other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstieg Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 we should have bill focus on the t5 swap. what can the t56 do that the t5 can't in the starion?. T5 is more affordable and many options. Both of these are made to deal with brutal v8 torque but one is lighter and more affordable among other things. Chad has put in the time and research. Several answers included in these: T56 Custom Flywheel GP (only 2 left btw) T 56 Conversion Kits T 56 Clutch thread It really just depends on what you're looking for. I don't know much about the T5 honestly. Could you start a new thread with more info on that please? While Bill is doing a great job making custom bellhousings to use the T56 with the G54B, his is for a direct swap keeping the SQ clutch and flywheel setup. To me, I would personally have a much bigger surface area for a smoother engagement, plus a huge variety of clutch options beyond the few good SQ clutches out there. But that is also a bit more pricey so I gotta save for a while. Bill's option is cheaper and requires less swapping, so kudos to that also. For a race only setup, a harsher engagement that a SQ clutch will have at these power levels requiring a T56, this is a great option. I'm looking for more streetable clutch feel. To each their own. Great work!! Promising to see not one, but several solid options for tranny swaps and clutch/flywheel setups. :happy0030: :party0049: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hincher Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 I feel the original flywheel is important to a good swap Remember all my original work involved the 4G63 narrow block not the G54b the flywheel is interacting with the crankshaft and the front crankshaft harmonic balancer for a longevity and balance, you can interchange the flywheel , but you must balance the rotating assembly after you change it. Its up to the builder but the original FWD flywheel and espically the AWD flywheel allows the engine to be mounted lower in the car as for the larger flywheel surface, thats a moot point with the double disc clutches availble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstieg Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 ^^^ oops my bad. I thought I read mention of the G54B previously. Is that on the "To Do" list for a later swap option? You'd get some buyers for that custom bell I'm sure, if it used the SQ fly/clutch and a direct T-56 swap without a need for adapter plate or custom fly. Personally I like that you're providing for the 4G63 first. Def. a powerful engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 The T-5 trans is not very strong compared to the stock starquest box. Yes, you can get them build up, and they are pretty common, but by the time you have it build up to hold 500 HP you have paid as much as a stock T56, but now you don't get to use stock parts when it breaks. Search T-5 power handling specs, it's not "all that". http://www.moderndriveline.com/md_faqs/T5_1.shtml#02138384 That depends on what T-5 you are starting with. Torque rates vary from 240ft/lbs to as high a ~500ft/lbs with aftermarket race gears. The strongest factory T-5 is known as a T-5z at 330ft/lbs. It is not uncommon to use this trans behind 450hp. Contact us for specific information regarding your application. Our cars make 240 ft/lb bone stock, a few standard mods and 400 FT/lb is easy to reach. Look at this overview : http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_B...ission_spec.htm http://www.moderndriveline.com/images/t-5specsheet.gif and take note of the torque colum. That is why I personly didn't persue making a kit for it. the G54B doesn't use a harmonic balancer, it's just a solid steel pulley on early versions, and a steel pully with rubber isolated water pump/AC pump grooveson later versions. A double disc costs as much or more than a custom flywheel and larger single clutch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 The T-5 trans is not very strong compared to the stock starquest box. Yes, you can get them build up, and they are pretty common, but by the time you have it build up to hold 500 HP you have paid as much as a stock T56, but now you don't get to use stock parts when it breaks. Search T-5 power handling specs, it's not "all that". http://www.moderndriveline.com/md_faqs/T5_1.shtml#02138384 Our cars make 240 ft/lb bone stock, a few standard mods and 400 FT/lb is easy to reach. Look at this overview : http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_B...ission_spec.htm http://www.moderndriveline.com/images/t-5specsheet.gif and take note of the torque colum. That is why I personly didn't persue making a kit for it. the G54B doesn't use a harmonic balancer, it's just a solid steel pulley on early versions, and a steel pully with rubber isolated water pump/AC pump grooveson later versions. A double disc costs as much or more than a custom flywheel and larger single clutch... I have spoken to the ford guys already. They are the real authority on what the T5 can or can't do. These guys have done it for years before I was into cars. The stock quest tranny won't hold up to repeted v8 launches, Do you see them putting quest trannies into fords?. You will not get the truth on the t5 on this board. with a few mods the quest will have 400ft/lbs o.k, so how much torque will the mustang have with a few mods more than that for sure. I was refering to the G54b BTW for t5 swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I was refering to the G54b BTW for t5 swap. Yah, me too. T-5's break, we all know that, just ask the V-8 guys about it. The quesiton at hand is how much will it take... I'm no expert on them, but it's common knowledge that the T-5 breaks too. T-56's also break, but how much does that take? a lot more. If the T-5 were so good, there wouldnt' be such a market for the T56 retrofits in to those same V-8 platforms. They aren't doing it for the 6th gea5r, they are doing it because it's a tough transmission. Ask those same V-8 guys if they'd prefer the T-5 over if T-56 given a choice. Some will side with the T-5 for various reasons, but the majority will prefer a T-56, it's just a better transmission for a performance car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hincher Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I donno, If its all about breaking, I could build a bellhousing that could mate a desil truck trans to the engine, but that is a poor reason to choose the trans the biggest reason to choose the proper trans is its use and its performance If your going to build an engine that only produces power between a very small rev window, then a very close ratio trans would be in order,the high revving 4 cylinder would have much different needs then a low RMP v-8 trans. I believe that a v-8 trans would be built for a lower range RPM with a much wider ratio span between gears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstieg Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I donno, If its all about breaking, I could build a bellhousing that could mate a desil truck trans to the engine, but that is a poor reason to choose the trans the biggest reason to choose the proper trans is its use and its performance If your going to build an engine that only produces power between a very small rev window, then a very close ratio trans would be in order,the high revving 4 cylinder would have much different needs then a low RMP v-8 trans. I believe that a v-8 trans would be built for a lower range RPM with a much wider ratio span between gears Diesel truck. haha. I agree about the power range and lower RPMs, which is why I feel the T56 is good for the G54B, which will rarely see 7k rpms. My peak torque is around 3k, and a peak hp around 5200rpms. The 4G63 can go a bit higher in the range tho. With such an early high torque, the larger early gears should be fine, but again this is for higher power setups that can torque out the early gearing, not your standard Mitsu upgrade or Super 16G turbo that need to spool later on at higher rpms. But of course most all I say is based on what I think I've learned on the forums, so if I'm wrong, please correct (like above). ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 The T56 is a close ratio, 1st through 4th are all very close compared to any other trans out there. 95% of all performance driving is undr 100 MPH, so this is a perfect spread, and then you have 2 nice OD gears for cruise. Throw in a 4.22 diff and you have a perfect match to stock gearing 1st to 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hincher Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 because i like to standardize my stuff, I replaced the throw out bearing collar to the exact size of the Toyota R 154/ W 55 throw out body I.D. so anybody can get the throw out bearing from any Toyota trans or dealer, then I went on to create throw out bearing holding bodies so that anybody can get the same set up from me with my kits ( so you can get the complete kit without sourcing out at the junk yard) so I replaced the aluminuim model with steel http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0137.jpg I cleaned up the trans with a better spacer plate http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0136.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0135.jpg I used new studs in the trans to bellhousing connection http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0134.jpg the studs and spacer plate cleaned up nicely http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0138.jpg I finished out the clutch controls with the OEM first gen Mits clutch fork and pivot ball with the W55/59 series Toyota throw out bearing the starter holes are tapped and threaded with steel inserts because the starter bolts must go in from the opposite direction now, so you have to drill out the threads on the OEM starter to bolt it up http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0133.jpg I gotta build a long shaft version for the T 56 this week, but I will be building about 6 of these in the next two weeks http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0132.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hincher Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 this work is towards the long shaft version of the T 56 narrow block bellhousing http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0139.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0140.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0141.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0142.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0143.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0144.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0145.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0146.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0147.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hincher Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 because of all the different T 56 input shaft lengths, I built a depth tool to make sure of my designs http://www.billsautofab.com/images/depthguage.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/depthguage1.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/depthguage3.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/depthguage4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hincher Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I keep developing new ways to build my bellhousings, http://www.billsautofab.com/images/t56clutchcontrols.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/t56clutchcontrols1.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/t56clutchcontrols2.jpg I use the dummy input shaft to find my proper depth http://www.billsautofab.com/images/t56clutchcontrols3.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/t56clutchcontrols4.jpg then I use a dummy clutch cover to get the correct relationship between the throw out bearing / clutch fork/pivotball http://www.billsautofab.com/images/t56clutchcontrols5.jpg http://www.billsautofab.com/images/t56clutchcontrols6.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremeboost Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 As soon as you have one for the t56 to g54b block I WANT IT !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hincher Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 As soon as you have one for the t56 to g54b block I WANT IT !!!! what would be to your advantage? the long shaft or the short shaft I built about 10 short shaft narrow block set ups and a couple long shaft sets, but I keep playing around with it, looking for better combinations, I want to try a three way draft on the new castings Dan @ compitition clutch has hepled me develop clutch kits for my kits I am just about ready to release the R 154 G54b block set up, and I promised a couple guys the T 5 option, so I will have some free time to the wide block after I roof the house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstieg Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I'm not sure why they would want the T5 over the T56, but to each their own. =) Chad already has an adapter plate kit setup for the wideblock G54b to the T56. You just need the custom Fidanza which can be had for $300, a stock Camaro clutch, and a get a driveshaft done. What diff. would a custom bellhousing make except to keep the stock clutch which is smaller and more grabby, with custom driveshaft still needed? Not being negative, just curious what the advantages would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hincher Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 (edited) I'm not sure why they would want the T5 over the T56, but to each their own. =) Chad already has an adapter plate kit setup for the wideblock G54b to the T56. You just need the custom Fidanza which can be had for $300, a stock Camaro clutch, and a get a driveshaft done. What diff. would a custom bellhousing make except to keep the stock clutch which is smaller and more grabby, with custom driveshaft still needed? Not being negative, just curious what the advantages would be. thats exactly correct, I dont know the answer, I guess cost would be the biggest factor, I priced that flywheel at well over $500.00 and the clutch you reffer to is not cheap, last time I looked there was some confusion about pull type and push type and then newer models replacing older models and flywheels had to be purchased with the clutch sets and everything was over $800.00 I know you guys dont put much stock into it , but you are creating problems with the balance of the engine when you start mix and match swaps with flywheels, all my stuff uses the OEM flywheel/starter arraingements, if you choose a lighter wheel, thats up to you, but when I build it, they use the flywheel intended for the engine The T 5 has a lot of fans, and it may fit the tunnel better, I dont know, most of my international orders like to use the W 55/59 series because of cost, the R 154 guys are looking for strength I get E mail asking me to build bellhousings for the neighbors car, because the nieghbor aint using it and the builder can get the transmission for free, so I dont have the answer what combinations did you build and recommend? Edited November 6, 2009 by Bill Hincher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstieg Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 thats exactly correct, I dont know the answer, I guess cost would be the biggest factor, I priced that flywheel at well over $500.00 and the clutch you reffer to is not cheap, last time I looked there was some confusion about pull type and push type and then newer models replacing older models and flywheels had to be purchased with the clutch sets and everything was over $800.00 I know you guys dont put much stock into it , but you are creating problems with the balance of the engine when you start mix and match swaps with flywheels, all my stuff uses the OEM flywheel/starter arraingements, if you choose a lighter wheel, thats up to you, but when I build it, they use the flywheel intended for the engine The T 5 has a lot of fans, and it may fit the tunnel better, I dont know, most of my international orders like to use the W 55/59 series because of cost, the R 154 guys are looking for strength I get E mail asking me to build bellhousings for the neighbors car, because the nieghbor aint using it and the builder can get the transmission for free, so I dont have the answer what combinations did you build and recommend? I kinda figured that the price of the custom flywheel may have been over-estimated. People should know that last I checked there are only 2 of those custom flywheels left from the original order of 10. It seems back when this was done it wasn't marketed that well as several like Heefner went with the RX7 swap instead. Now it seems they would have preferred this route. Regardless, the lightened Fidanzas are proven with the G54b in many many SQs using stock trannys, so the balancing appears not to be of any concern. The custom Fidanzas are also balanced and I believe are 15lbs (I could go weigh mine) vs. the stock replacement/stock clutch/trans Fidanzas which are 10.5 lbs., so if anything the custom ones offer a tiny bit more rotational mass. The bigger T-56 clutches will also weigh a bit more than the stock SQ clutches too. I guess I'm assuming that your custom bell-housing setups are fairly pricey given the amount of time, materials and R&D you put into what is clearly some AWESOME work!! I'd hate to see that done if you won't have a market OR if it'll cost more than Chad's route for a smaller stock clutch, which Chad & I feel would be inferior at these power levels. Just playing devil's advocate with the pros & cons to each route to help others figure out what they want also. Either way, great call on the bell for the narrow blocks swaps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts