Chads MPI vs. Magna MPI, worth the extra $?

[MidNiteRide89]

Alright, I'm hoping that this won't turn into anything now that it's unlocked. Chip and I have e-mailed each other to keep this thread from becoming a novel.

I would ask that if you agree/disagree with any of the comments on here, to not respond in a way to start a flame, and please try to be patient......

I imagine that there should be dyno numbers, ("proof") sometime in the near future. It depends on who bought it and if they live in an area of the country that is warm in winter! Here in Chicago, the Starion is laying down for its winter nap already.

[Quest4Power]

wow, got pretty heated in here over night  .  Easy boys, we're all in the same game here  .

 

 

i'm done trying to defend a hunk of metal.  we all have our reasons for making certain purchases, and we sometimes buy things that a lot of people don't like or believe in.  i was asked by sooooo many people why the heck i was buying such a POS car to make into a monster.  what can i say?  i know a good thing when i see it.

 

i still believe it will make more power than the Magna with MY SETUP, and i still believe i made a good decision in buying it.  yes, i would have liked to have had a magna, but i want to take a bit different approach into building this car the way I see fit.  it's been a steep learning curve going from bolt-on FI to building a car from pretty much scratch.  but believe me when I say this, I will give all kinds of data when i get this car running.  i will give the good the bad and the ugly details based upon my dynos and tuning time.  i am not biased toward one intake over the other.  i may even get my hands on a magna intake temporarily and bolt it on for a good comparison (anyone wanna donate?).

 

only time will tell.  until then, i'd suggest anyone wanting to buy an MPI intake to do lots of research.

[Ray_R]

to answer 83 starpowers question,  is it worth the extra money??  we dont know yet.  hang in there.  i thought id never see the day that 4 different types of MPIs are available for our cars, despite who made them, i am grateful for it to even happen.

[heefner]

Chip and I have e-mailed each other to keep this thread from becoming a novel.

 

Too late!

[MidNiteRide89]

Oops......  :-/  

 

(Just wait for volume 2..... J/K!!!)

[indy_85stariones]

Who are the risk takers out there?  

 

Did Virgil "Gus" Grissom ask -- Hmmm I wonder if it is safe to get in this thing, before he and others boarded that ill-fated flight of Apollo 204?   No,  he had his mind focused on setting foot on the moon.  

 

If it wasn't for the risk takers, we'd all be buying up those old over-sized CNM intakes, just because CNM had dyno'ed them.  

 

Chad has lost much of his time and money to research the feasiblity of producing a DOHC head for our engines.   Chad has lost much of his time and money studying how Mitsu' modified our cars to run in the world rally and touring events in the 80's.

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/motorsp...0s/2starion.htm

 

Chad was one of the first to convert 86 ECI to 88/89.  Chad was one of the first to experiment with 1st gen DSM MAS.  Did Chad keep all of that info to himself?  No, he went out of his way to neatly type up detailed step-by-step instructions in the FAQ sections.  

 

Heck, most people would keep all of that stuff to themselves.  If Carrol Shelby was working on a new intake, he wouldn't be trying to make one to sell for under $600.

 

Chad has always taken his time to promptly respond to all of my e-mails -- no matter how trivial they may be.  

 

He has been upfront with the progress of his intake.  I wish other people that I do business would be half as candid as him.  I fail to see why his intake receives so much criticism, nor do I wish to see more posts on this matter.  

 

Kudo's to all of you who have moved from the sidelines, took a chance and/or...

purchased AIC i/c setup

fabricated our intake with aux injectors

fabricated our intake with 4 injectors

purchased CNM's intake

purchased EIP's intake

purchased the Australian Magna intake

purchased Chad's intake

designing a carbon fiber MPI intake

[chiplee]

 i thought id never see the day that 4 different types of MPIs are available for our cars, despite who made them, i am grateful for it to even happen.

 

you ain't kiddin' we've come a long way.  4 MPI possibilities, competing roller cam  setups, competing 3 inch exhausts, 11lbs aluminum flywheels readily available, camber plates front and rear,  Big Brake upgrade, hell there's even a guy trying to make body kits for the young crowd that's attracted to starquests.  I'm glad so many of us have stayed the course long enough to reap the benefits of so many individuals' hard work.  That's something very few other car clubs have; the kind of unity that comes from making alot of stuff happen for each other instead of calling NOPI and ordering it off the shelf and coming here and bragging about what you have that no one else can afford.  Alot of us have very similar setups because we've followed the GPs and bought performance parts as groups, because it's not really about being faster than each other, but being faster than any non believer.

[Boosted_One]

My comment is this on Chads intake.

 

His design is based almost verbatim off of SDS website.

http://www.sdsefi.com/22man.jpg

 

Now that in itself are grounds for knowing the intake will perform excellent. SDS has proven their intake design and there are quite a few people runnning the exact same intake on different makes of cars.

 

Look familiar?

 

http://www.sdsefi.com/22man.jpg

 

 

http://www.sdsefi.com/223man.jpg

 

Unless Chad left 1/4" holes open and left golf ball sized slag in the runners his intake will perform absolutely excellent. Hell look at what people have done with the absolute HORRID design of our stock TBI intakes!!

 

I went thru similar situations when I let the word out on the Krankvents, the 1G mas. I had people giving me heat about those things also. Even though they aren't quite the same situation people tend to come down hard on things that are advertised as big gains.

 

Chads intake WILL work, and work excellent. If Chad wants to send me an intake (oh sure that'll happen ) I'll slap that SOB on, even if I already have the Magna.

 

I've worked on several key areas with Chad on things over the years, he knows what he is doing! And not from a laymans point of view either!

[heefner]

I feel like we're beating a dead horse.  I was going to explain why I think Chad's intake will perform but I'd be pissing in the wind cause no one is gonna believe me over the next guy.  So why waste my breath.  Bottom line is both intakes will out perform the stock by a hughe margin.  If you want to play it safe and you are on a budget, go with the magna.  If you're feeling a little saucy and have some coin to spend, go with Chad's desing. If you have no idea and you have some time, wait a year to see some real world results.

[MidNiteRide89]

.  If you're feeling a little saucy .

 

???    ;D  

 

LMAO! Whoever is feelin, "a little saucy," please stay the hell away from me!

[chiplee]

Good choice heefner, and not because no one would believe you.  Hell I believe Mike and everyone else, and I personally think the intake will work very well.  I just started having flashbacks from when I made some of the most expensive decisions in my life based on nothing more than what other people wrote on a message board.   I remember specifically thinking how stupid I was to have just blindly thrown money at this guy in the hope that my car would come away fast as hell, and how I felt betrayed by the people who said CNM was "the best" and that James really cared about our cars and about us.  All this talk should stop, you're all absolutely correct.  Talk is cheap.  James was all talk, and the many "good" things he did produce don't make up for one damn dollar he stole from me or anyone else.  Fact is, a newcomer to this board has about as much reason to believe in Chad as I had to believe in James.  James had a ton of supporters, Chad has a ton of supporters (including me) But those supporters also include guys like Frank (airborne) and Steve (BVmotorsports) who reportedly owe well over a $1000 between them to various individuals.  You just never know when people start typing if you can believe what they put down.  I guarantee you that in your life, and on these boards there are people you feel 100% confident that you can trust, who are not trustworthy.  Chad's done alot for the community, James did alot for the community.  The parallels are obvious but they don't mean that Chad is out to rip anybody off.  All they mean is that there is no place for written, verbal or any other form of "speculation" as to how this intake will work.  Speculation means nothing, and I take it personally because I didn't exactly have several thousand dollars to throw away when I was 23 or 24 years old, but that's what happened.  So enough with the "I have good reason to believe."  As a rule of thumb when talking about products:  If you aren't willing to warranty the item out of your own pocket, then don't say things that will make people want to buy it.  I agree, he know's what he's doing but it's not in anyone's place but his to show that, unless it's in regard to his personal character.  That's how this thing got so out of hand.  The line between Chad the man and Chad's intake ceased to exist, and people who meant to defend the man from personal attacks proceeded to profess that the intake rocked.  I understand it was a natural progression to say things like "I would purchase an untested fabricated part from Chad" as a strong way of proving your belief in his abilities, but it crosses the line.  Of course you can assume it will work better than stock by looking at it.  Everyone has said "why should he have to flowbench if TEP and EIP don't flow bench", but the flow bench/dyno tune idea was Chad's.  Far as I know everyone would be quite comfy with some G-tech pro numbers or even just the fact that a car is running well using the intake.    I probably ought to shut up huh?   I think Mike had an awesome idea for a comparison there.  Take an engine that's already tuned with one of the manifolds and just bolt the other manifold on.  Obviously flow change will require map changes but other than that there will be only one variable, the manifold.  That would be some valuable dyno results.   In fact until that happens there won't be any real way to compare the intakes at all, not that a comparison is really needed, accept maybe a flow bench.

[heefner]

Well maybe saucy was a poor choice of wording but I think I made my point.  

 

I agree with you 100% Chip, I think people were trying to defend Chad and not his intake. However, it really didn't come out that way. As for someone putting both intakes on thier car and getting results, I'm not gonna hold my breath.  I don't think Chad intended to compete with anyone, I think it was dumb luck that he finnished production of his intake about the same time the magna intake was discovered.  I applaud Chad in his efforts to offer a product that could presumably improve the performance of our cars. At the same time, I don't fault him for not wanting to prove its worth.  I really believe that we would not be having this discussion if it weren't for the magna.  I think everyone would have excepted Chads intake as a gift from the Mitsu. "Gods" and never looked back.  But fortunately for us, the consumers, competition breeds better products.  So Chad, if your reading this, get off the damn computer and get back in the garage and finish your quest!  Everybodys waiting some... not so patiently!

[lmwii]

Damn, the more things change, etc....

 

It's good to know all is normal here in SQ land - innocent q's turned into moral debate

 

I do have to throw in my 2c...as promising as any new product may be, waiting, to me at least, seems like a win-win proposition in the form of lower costs and proven performance.  There is a caveat - if everyone waits, nothing happens.

 

later all

[heefner]

just scrolling through the archives and I saw this.  Just curious if anyone running Chad's intake has put it on the dyno?  Quest4power, any chance you've made it to the dyno yet?  Chad? anyone?

[DanMitsu]

nope,(if you want to call it his anymore)  they are still working on the endtanks, on the i.c., an the plumbing hasnt showed up yet.  Im sequadled for next friday or earlie saturday. ( if it fricking matters )

[heefner]

nope,(if you want to call it his anymore)  they are still working on the endtanks, on the i.c., an the plumbing hasnt showed up yet.  Im sequadled for next friday or earlie saturday. ( if it fricking matters )

Dan can you explain this a little?  "if you want to call it his"  did Chad's car take on a partnership?  Also, what does sequadled mean?  ???

[chiplee]

I was hoping I wasn't the only one who didn't understand much of that

[Quest4Power]

just scrolling through the archives and I saw this.  Just curious if anyone running Chad's intake has put it on the dyno?  Quest4power, any chance you've made it to the dyno yet?  Chad? anyone?

 

 

still haven't made it.  i'm re-working my fuel rail design as i changed it from how it originally came and it didn't seal up very well (rolling fire hazard).  i've been messing with it among other things and i plan to be done very soon.  i've got a lot on my plate right now but it's been a steady (but slow) pace.

[DanMitsu]

things about the intake were changed out an re welded, ( i was trying to be a smart a** ). Then on a difrent note, i made an appoinment to be there, this firday late or earlie saturday morning,  ( two days in advanced, thing)  I just got the i.c back, from them. So now im working on the plumbing.  I just got the fuel lines an reg worked out.  ( i was trying to say yeah, its almost ready, but im working out the bumps, in the road)

T-61, your having a prob with this rail too??  it seal's off two of the four, on mine.  An if you tighten the thing, it gets worst.  then you cant get the clips on the injecters. An how about the water neck, with the rail right there. I ended up getting a few guys from this hydrolock place to fix me up some bends, so i can put the hose on the neck.  ( i almost j-b welded those damn things in it,. they fit lose, on the intake) I dont need, a fire.

[Quest4Power]

well, i got one of his practice ones i guess you could say, one of his preliminary models.  it had the injectors shooting straight down into the runners and i didn't like that, so i put in some of my own injector bosses angled about 45* into the runners.  problem is i used epoxy and didn't get them all nice and level so the injectors didn't all sit flush.  entirely my fault here, but i couldn't find O-rings to fit the rail anyway so i did a little ghetto engineering again with the epoxy and now i have a fuel rail that just may work (still have to get out of work long enough to install it).

as far as the water neck i have a 90* -8AN elbow coming straight off the rail so it just clears the coolant hose.  i use a flex hose type of radiator hose to fit with the camaro radiator i used so it's a little tighter there than it may be on your car though.  my only gripe with the thing is the fact that there's no chance of getting the thing off with the head/brake booster on the car at the same time.  i could probably just unbolt the engine mount on that side and tilt it but that would a bit much work.  i'm still looking for creative answers to this problem.

 

when i did get the injectors to seal before i took it apart again, the car ran like a champ for being completely untuned.  even with the 75lb/hr injectors it idled fine when i played with the trim on the SDS and drove good as well.  throttle response on it was excellent, but i'm on a spanking new engine still so i only saw about 5psi (still completely untuned so that's all i was willing to get to) but it wanted to move.  i can't wait myself, i want to lay into this car sooooo bad it's killing me.

[Quest4Power]

oh and dan,

 

most injectors have a groove that a clip can fit into for the rail to bottom out on, kindof like an E-clip.  it will give you plenty of space to clip the injector plugs on.  i cut my own from sheet metal but that was part of my problem, as they kept cutting my o-rings.  like i said, i should have a rail that seals now, thanks to some 1/2" copper pipe and some correctly sized o-rings.

[DanMitsu]

Oh,..   i put the radiater hose on, the neck. then undid the clamp to get it around the hose.  ( its still real tight).  i tightened the rail, down.  but it felt lopsided. 9 so-ta-speak).  yeah i ended up using that degree too, inorder to get it fit.  i used to have earls stuff on there ( thier connecters) but even with the number 8 it still stuck out to dang far.  The guys at that hydrolic place, ended making one so it would have a** clear the neck.  

i talked to the guy who is going to tune it, the first question was who built the motor??hehehee  (the tuner has a vw, an porche 911  that he plays with, both of them have the sds stuff onthem. the vw is just for racing, an from what i saw the porche could be for anything inbetween.  Long story short, he said he would let me stand by, an he would bemore than happy to show me whats going. So thats cool.  I guess i was giving off the extrmely nervous feeling, of gettingmy stuff broke.  

I know from experence,. throttle body, to efi  is an increadable difrent throttle feel. ( my old stang).  

The first time it catches fire, im throwing it across the yard, (im keeping an extignusher in the back floor board) this is way to MUCH of a hassle.

[heefner]

(im keeping an extignusher in the back floor board) this is way to MUCH of a hassle.

 

I have my extingusher mounted right in front of the drivers seat directly below my kness on the floor.  You can never be too careful.

[DanMitsu]

very true,.. ( thats a good idea, i just wanted to mount soemwhere close)  

i had problems anyways,. so im pushed off till next weekend,. maybe the rest of the connecters will show up,. hopefully. ( dyno ).  they guys at the shop just laughed,. an when i wasnt smilling,. they found something else to do.  lol

[tsi_tom]

As usual, everyone has an opinion.  If you can do it better than Chad or Magna, lets see it.  Is Chad the only one trying?  I think most of you couldn't do it by yourself.  Let us give Chad a chance.