Oscar_the_Grouch Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 OK Guys I found a suplier in Oregon that is willing to work with the club in making the bars for us. The have been in the business for Hot Rods for over 50 years but the best part is they are willing to work with us ! Now for the details: I will NEED to see how many of you will be willing to purchace the bars according to the info and pricing BELLOW as this will determine wether or not we get the BEST DEAL. The bars ARE NOT MADE YET and there will have to be TEST FITTED on a car ( In Oregon, I think I have a volunteer already ) as the reason why no one offer bigger bars is because the OEM mounting holes for the bar's bushings WILL NOT accomodate a larger diameter than whats currently available ( 25mm F and 21mm R ) So the shop will have to manufacture a bracket to accomodate the larger bar/bushing combo and use ANOTHER mounting hole (ALREADY on the car) to attach the bracket. This bracket and bushings ARE INCLUDED in the pricing. The bars will be made from Chromolly Steel and will be SOLID NOT Hollow. The hollow bars offer little benefit to street driven cars and the weight reduction is so minimal that unless you are making a FULL drag/race car it will offer little gains. NOW for the pricing... ( ALL Pricing is PER SINGLE BAR ) This way you can buy the SET or just the front or the rear. 25mm / 1" Bar $199.00 Â Â (To be used for the rear) vs. the 21mm Aftermarket ones avail. now and 17mm OEM. 30mm / 1 1/8" Bar $209.00 33mm / 1 1/4" Bar $219.00 Â Â (To be used for the Front) vs. the 25mm Aftermarket ones avail. now and 20mm OEM. 10 or MORE bars of the same dia we will get a 10% Discount and 15% after 20+ bars. We will NEED to agree on ONE size for the FRONT Â if we want to get the BEST Price as QUANTITY is the KEY. Please POST here if you will be in for buying one orthe set of bars at the above ESTIMATED PRICES and will be available HOPEFULLY within 2 months after we get the numbers. Thanks Oscar ANY Questions please POST or oscardortega@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoolinturbo Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 damn wish i Had some money floating around, i will be in boot camp in april...roaaaaar dammit. If I find a loop hole I will be down for the biggest and baddest for a whole set F&R jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldNBlack Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Will they be adjustable? I'd rather have adjustability over just increased size. What material, construction(tube wall thickness)? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar_the_Grouch Posted January 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Will they be adjustable? Â I'd rather have adjustability over just increased size. What material, construction(tube wall thickness)? Â Steve Hey Steve I will update the post with the info you requsted. But I will post here also. The bars will be made from Chromolly Steel and will be SOLID NOT Hollow. The hollow bars offer little benefit to street driven cars and the weight reduction is so minimal that unless you are making a FULL drag/race car it will offer little gains. I hope I have addressed your concerns if you have ANY other questions just let me know. Thanks for your interest. Oscar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_ss Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 I too would like the option of adjustability. But if that can't be done I think the 33mm bar would be good for the front. The 25mm bar out back also sounds good. Most swaybars that are out for other cars and close or under a few mm in size so these ought to stiffen up the suspension nicely. Pair them with a good set of coils and shocks at every corner and we might be abel to pull .95 plus g's on the skid pad. Keep in mind the drag racers are not going to be purchasing these, I myself am game I would much rather drive on a track than in a straight line, more excitement. Thanks again Oscar for coming through with unbeleived able products. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Very cool! I like the sound of this GP. I would have to scrape some green together though to make it happen. Just out of curiosity what city is this place in? Just asking cause I live in Oregon. Also if you need any local help I am more then happy to do what ever I can. Keep up the good work Arnold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Just to note: The 88-89's swaybar's are 21mm/19mm(F/R) The 87's and below are 19mm/17mm(F/R) I was wondering if the 33mm or whatever size you guys agree on, will fit in the stock mounting brackets? And what about the bushings? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_ss Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Justpaus..... I beleive that Oscar has already stated something about the mounting holes for the front. I think he said that a custom bracket would have to be fabricated by the people that are making the sway bars for us. Not a big deal just think you'll be able to handle like a Supra or an AE86. And off the record I beleive I saw something about our cars being 53/47 wieght distribution, which isn't too bad.... Thanks again Oscar.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelwindmachine Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 any idea on what the spring rates will be on these different size bars? reason to consider, is if you upgrade the sway bar to a higher spring rate it effectively increases the spring rate of the springs on the front (if front bar is installed), and rear (if rear bar is installed). If you stiffen the front bar, the understeer is increased (or oversteer decreased). If you stiffen the rear bar, the oversteer is increased (or understeer decreased). Softening a bar has the oppositve effect. I haven't actually driven a bone stock StarQuest, but if the car oversteers during steady state cornering, a softer rear bar or a stiffer front bar should help reduce or eliminate the condition. Which bar to change depends on several factors. If the bars are available as adjustable, that would definitely give them a head above all others and allow people to dial each into a range best for their respective car/application. If this manufacturer has been manufacturing suspension components for such a long time, they should be able to analyze the stock configuration of these cars and come up with a recommended suspension package including the bars, springs, shocks, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar_the_Grouch Posted January 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Steel ... Yes the shop CAN do some research and determine the CORRECT MATCHED set for our cars But are you OR anyone else here willing to ditch out the $$$$ for the R/D ? I whent throught this with the Big Brakes and its NOT cheap. But I spoke with Art a while back and from experience and talking to other racers and shops, the ket to propper handling is to use as stiff a bar as possible and go as soft of spring as possible. Basically keep the car from ROLLING with bars NOT springs. Often guys use TOO hard a spring and this will HURT rather than HELp your cornering ability. John... Yes the bars WILL COME with ALL HARDWARE including the bushings and the bracket WILL have to be manufactured to accomodate the larger bars and wider footprint of the aftermarket bracket. phathp... The shop is Quickor Suspenssion The shop is is Portland OR Their site is: www.quickor.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stariongirl Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 i am interested. have you seen the bars with the captured ball end link that fixes to a clamp on the bar? you can loosen the clamp and change the position of the end link to make rate adjustment.... that is what i want s/g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar_the_Grouch Posted January 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 S/G I think I know the system you are talking about. And I also think this will NOT work with our bar system. Do you happen to have a LINk or pic you can send to me so I can forward it to the guys at the shop to see what they think and to see what they recomend. Thanks Oscar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosthead Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Oscar, is there any concensus on what size front bar will be made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_87tsi Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 what difference does it make if you have already lowered the suspension with eibach springs? I am interested. jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_ss Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Lowering your car only lowers the center of gravity. With a bigger bar you tighten up the entire assembly, increasing response. Bigger sway bars tend to resist the twisting action and lower the body roll factor. There for you get better traction and can take corners at higher speeds. I'm game with this when we get the ball rolling. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksweet Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I'm trying to purchase a car. Ir io happens I am n for the biggest bars. Did tjhe factory SHP option have stiffer bars or just wheels and shocks? Marksweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 The SHP has the same swaybars as the others, so rims and shocks were only changed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosthead Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Isn't it true that you can go too big with sway bars too, just like you can go too stiff with springs? A larger sway bar effectively increases the spring rate when the wheels on one "axle" move up/down at different rates. If both wheels go up/down at the same rate, no prob. But if one wheel hits a pothole/bump, that extra spring rate that resists body roll under lateral acceleration will also act as though the spring has a higher rate on that corner contributing to a choppier ride? Sorry to go on a tangent, just considering the two options for the front bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_ss Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Yes you are correct Boosthead, but take a look at most aftermarket bars for cars. They are close to the 30mm mark if not over it. I figured we'd be ok because quite a few cars I looked at had 33mm bars on them. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 you can't compare sway bar sizes on different cars much the same way you can't compare spring rates. it has a lot to do with the suspension geometry. the most obvious and crucial point is the length of the leverage. thats the distance of the arm coming from the swaybar and ends at the center of the wheel. something else that comes in to the equation is that not all cars connect the swaybar to the suspension at the same location. so there is a lot to take into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_87tsi Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 I am interested, the last item in my suspension upgrade! let me know when it comes together jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welderwiz Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Many of you have pointed out the implied spring rate and wether or not the bar size is too big or not. Oscar, the shop who offered to build the bars for this price damn sure aught to make some calcs before bending up our cars with such a large bar diameter . If some one has the exact corner weights, cross weights and axle weights of the car, I will make the calcs for you. If you just "build" a bar, then you put great stresses on a chassis that is not designed for it (uni-body construction). I have designed many chassis for different applications and I assure you all that going bigger is NOT better. Most of us can benefit far more from a adjustable Quality shock than you will get from a big anti-roll bar (proper terminology) ;D. If you think strut tower braces are necessary now just wait till you install a 1 1/4 inch anti-roll bar! I used this size on my 1964 Plymouth station wagon! Dont mean to break up a potential GP, but I cant sit back and see people install components that make the car unsafe to drive. As I said before, I would be willing to make the calcs if someone has the weights of a "stock" Quest and a lowered one ............. 2 completely different applications!! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_87tsi Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Mark: Since I am one of the ones with a lowered car, new eibachs and tokicos, stock tire sizes out of necessity how do we get that information you need for the calculations. my car handles really well now and maybe just replacing the bushings would be all i need, already have strut tower braces. I havent ever seen that information you asked about. thanks jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welderwiz Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Jeff This information is aquired by the use of scales, one under each wheel. This method is used by all fields of racing for "setting up" a chassis for a particular track or type of racing. This is the only way to determine the proper springs, ride height, anti roll bars etc. It is a science of sort but definitely required for a properly handling car. How a driver handles their car is another factor. If you tend to be a twitchy driver as apposed to a smooth calculating one also determines what is needed. My last project was a 1947 Cad Sedanette, very large car, that I was able to attain 51% front 49% rear weight ditribution by "building" an entire chassis. Again only a 1" bar front and 7/8" in the rear. The rest was in custom built Pro-Shock shocks. I think it would give most of our Quests a run for the money on a road course. And yes it is a 468 inch Chevy for power! If a 1 1/4" bar is installed on a Quest, one MIGHT expect to see inconsistant or constantly changing alignment specs indicating severe chassis distortion from too much spring. Once again, Im not trying to destroy or undermine Oscar in any way on this deal, I just want good safe parts for our cars. Sorry to be so long winded! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_87tsi Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 where would you recommend my finding the four independent scales? the kind the cops use for mobile truck scales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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