What clutch to buy

[jinx]

made 505wtq with tiny injectors and a broken junk exh manifold. Plus the car was never tuned. I know the g54 can and will make 600 plus wheel torque. 30psi of boost is just coming into the sweet spot for the hx40. I may take it up too 40psi.

500 ft-lbs tq atw on pump gas "not tuned" ? and 600 ft-lbs tq from an ol 2 valve 4cyl donkey is just nuts. Amazing motor imo

Car just spins the tires.... Otherwise the boost is at 17psi and I drive the car as a DD. It will still spin at 17psi, but nothing like 30psi.

Looks like your combinaiton is in sync, and the 54 is lovin the hx40, putting up impressive numbers like DSMs, 2.3 fords, nissan 2.4s, etc.. Would be imteresting to see how far u get b 4 u abandon the 2.6

 

On the clutch, just 4 giggles....

street awd DSM 579hp atw. $150 xtd unsprung stage 4 - lol

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/kcs-hx52-talon-579whp-at-23psi-dyno-at-fwd-performance.454358/

[Funky Phil]

 

 

but was that with a factory spec tranny set up or an old tired unit

 

what would cause stripped gears in a worn out one vs "factory spec". lay and output shaft flex is not a spec.

 

clean oil, no gear whine. And input shaft play wont cause a gear to grenade. km132's are weak and thats all there is.

[Funky Phil]

 

 

That's a good question. Every SQ trans I've seen had input shaft play. That can't be good for high HP.

 

whats that have to do with anything? how will input shaft bearing wear cause gear teeth to seek the pan?

 

If Joe put on tires that stick, it wont be long. Its the same issue T5's have only at a lower power level.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Funky Phil

[Technology]

Well, save up and get a t56 if you don't want to break it but still want to shift, otherwise some built auto. Powerglide! lol

 

Make more power with a nice header, large A/R turbine housing, and built head, and a 4" exhaust. I would really like to see a dyno test on a higher powered quest that made only a change of pipe size from 3 to 4 inch.

[Funky Phil]

Ive seen 30whp gain going from 3" straight thru to downpipe only. So there should be a gain as long as the bends are under control.

 

I dont think I would go solid disk on a street car. Your taking away what little protection there is left for the trans.

 

Joe, are you using the 88/89 pan?

Edited July 31, 2014 by Funky Phil

[Technology]

dang 30 horse.

[ucw458]

whats that have to do with anything? how will input shaft bearing wear cause gear teeth to seek the pan?

 

Because the input shaft bearing and the rear bearings are keeping the gears aligned properly. If the input bearing has play then the next bearing holding the shaft aligned is the pilot bearing. The clutch holds it too but still you are adding a few inches of shaft length between bearings. The longer the shaft the easier it is for it to flex under load causing the gears to become mis-aligned and fail. I'm not saying fixing the input bearing will allow you to hold 800+hp etc. What I'm saying is a good input bearing will raise the failure point to a higher hp level. How much hp idk. But bad bearings are never good in any situation.

 

 

I will see what the stock trans will hold in good condition. I have x2 88 trans and new bearings for them. I just need to get to a trans shop to have them installed. Once that is done my new setup is capable of testing the trans limit. I will probably end up doing a T56 or R154 swap but for now I'm stuck with the stocker.

[jinx]

Its the same issue T5's have only at a lower power level.

I wonder if the t5 fails at a lower tq(than our 5spd), or is it the weight of those ford pigs

svo is over 3000 lbs and t-bird ~3300

I was lookin for one of the 10sec 2.3 T5 stangs (on one of em, Spec stage III clutch too).... but anyway,

here is a t-bird in the 11s with 425 tq. Most mustang dyno'd

http://forum.turboford.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=017352;p=3#000105

[Funky Phil]

well its all about load distribution/driveline shock control.

 

As long as your not "shocking" the trans it will last long. Biggest problem is that all trans are rated in HP when they should be rated by 2 different thing.

 

Shift rpm

tq @ weight

 

The Gforce T5 is rated at 500tq @ 3300lb. But 88whitestarion crams 550wtq or more through his. This has to do with shock control (clutch slip)

 

At the same time Ive seen stock T5's go seasons and put a fox GT on its back bumper at every launch. Shock control.

[Funky Phil]

 

 

Because the input shaft bearing and the rear bearings are keeping the gears aligned properly. If the input bearing has play then the next bearing holding the shaft aligned is the pilot bearing. The clutch holds it too but still you are adding a few inches of shaft length between bearings. The longer the shaft the easier it is for it to flex under load causing the gears to become mis-aligned and fail. I'm not saying fixing the input bearing will allow you to hold 800+hp etc. What I'm saying is a good input bearing will raise the failure point to a higher hp level. How much hp idk. But bad bearings are never good in any situation.

 

 

whoops, fumbled there. Had my gear orders wrong in my head. But regardless, your talking about a component that is also held in place by the pilot. That eliminates one end of the pivot. The amount of input play would have to be quite noticeable. Enough that the car would vibe and probably near constant bearing whine. Not saying it cant lead to it, but there would be all sorts of signs present.

 

I really think its the case design to blame. Which is the same problem with the T5. Thats why Gforce made an upgraded case. Ive had 1 bad input bearing that I know of and it whined like a baby. Sparkled the oil but never killed a gear. I was in the gear oil quite often when I was trying to keep the km132 alive. I never wanted to do a swap in the beginning. I wanted it to hold, just like the 4 bolt axles. I didnt want to swap rearends either.

 

If your gonna keep it alive with big power, its gonna be driven delicately. I wasnt simply easing into 3rd one time a prolly the best trans I had and it just shredded teeth somewhere around 5500rpm. Thats when I parked it and collected swap parts.

[ucw458]

whoops, fumbled there. Had my gear orders wrong in my head. But regardless, your talking about a component that is also held in place by the pilot. That eliminates one end of the pivot. The amount of input play would have to be quite noticeable. Enough that the car would vibe and probably near constant bearing whine. Not saying it cant lead to it, but there would be all sorts of signs present.

 

The trans currently in my car has almost 1/8" of play on the input shaft lock to lock. It makes no noises when driving. It's safe to assume the pilot bearing is keeping it aligned. Will it make noise someday,....... maybe. But I can also assume it will probably make noise a second before it breaks since most don't get any warning when theirs breaks. My spare trans and the trans in the 2 other cars I had also had about 1/8" of shaft play. They didn't make noise either. I think it's a faulty bearing design from mitsu. Now if one of the rear bearings also has play then the trans will fail.

 

 

I know there are stronger trans out there. I'm headed towards a swap as well. So I'm not saying the stocker is the end all be all. I'm saying it probably gets a bad rep because most people build the motor for high hp and neglect to have the trans rebuilt too. Then they blow the trans and call it junk. The stocker is probably more than capable of holding 300-400 hp safely if it's rebuilt. But if you plan on making north of 400 hp, drag racing and or using sticky tires then a trans swap is probably a better option.

[starquestJOE]

Yea phil its a 88 tranny and stock pan. I checked the input shaft before I put it in. It had little to no play in it.

 

I think a bomb proof 88-89 tranny can be built. I just think no one has tried. I may look into building one and proving it. I was said that the tranny wouldnt make it pass 400wtq...so

[Funky Phil]

Build the trans with what? OEM parts? It will hold all sorts of power.......for a little bit. As long as your spinning, your trans will prolly hold. Add traction to the mix and see what happens.

 

edit

I got to thinking and swear I remember guys way back that were getting the rebuilt and sending off gears to be hardened or something and still breaking. Might have been chad. Maybe some of the older members will remember.

 

kudos if you can make it hold in a performance application.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Funky Phil

[ucw458]

I remember a thread like that. Don't recall it ever getting past the discussion phase due to cost.

[Technology]

I've had two transmission failures, one was from a 5th gear pull. Full boost and blasting down the highway. When I let off, it was whining really bad at all speeds. Replaced it, and that one broke 3rd gear under light acceleration on an on-ramp. Seemingly random, I don't know. The one that I assume is still in there was a lower mileage 89 tranny with MT90 synthetic fluid in it.

 

So, what I'm saying is that you can get lucky, or not. You'll never know until it breaks.

[Funky Phil]

I remember a thread like that. Don't recall it ever getting past the discussion phase due to cost.

 

What I remember is that the gears still broke.

 

[Funky Phil]

I hope you try to build up a KM132. Im really interested. R154 is a heavy beyatch.

 

Im sure compatible HD bearing can be found. You could go as far as machining an area to press-fit a steel plate into.

[ucw458]

I'm gonna have one of mine rebuilt to factory specs. We will see what it holds. I haven't found much info on beefing them up. Mostly MM D50 guys using the guts from a SQ trans in their weaker trans. I bet that's exactly what Mitsu did for the AWD car. It was most likely a MM trans and transfer case with SQ gears.

 

 

Since the input bearing is a tapered roller bearing,.... I wonder if it's something in the rear of the trans that loosens up allowing the input shaft play. Maybe a nut gets loose or the case deforms. All this talk about it makes me want to tear apart my spare trans and do some investigating.

[Funky Phil]

I still have a stocker in the corner.

 

Input just has a pocket bearing in the back. Thats a roller. Im pretty sure the input has a ball bearing. Are you talking about the race?

 

If its deforming "which i think it is", a steel plate or fork could act as a maincap and be bolt in from outside the case.

Also, I think pretty much all the key bearings a ball. Some HD rollers need to make their way into the trans.

[Funky Phil]

My question/argument is, How much will this oem rebuild cost? Not everyone will be able to do it them self. And seeing as you said your going to "have" it rebuilt makes me think you cant either.

 

Youll have $300 in bearings and synchros. Can you get new shift forks? How much $?

How much to have it rebuilt? $8-1000?

 

I have a buddy that aquired his entire R154 swap parts for $700 to include clutch disk and driveshaft. My swap ran me $1700 total and coulda been cheaper had I not wanted $500 in other goodies.

[ucw458]

My question/argument is, How much will this oem rebuild cost? Not everyone will be able to do it them self. And seeing as you said your going to "have" it rebuilt makes me think you cant either.

 

Youll have $300 in bearings and synchros. Can you get new shift forks? How much $?

How much to have it rebuilt? $8-1000?

 

I have a buddy that aquired his entire R154 swap parts for $700 to include clutch disk and driveshaft. My swap ran me $1700 total and coulda been cheaper had I not wanted $500 in other goodies.

 

I'm not saying I can't rebuild mine. Just that I never tried to rebuild a manual trans. I've rebuilt a number of automatics and they are easy. I may take mine apart to see if I can do it.

 

Last time I talked to a buddy of mine he said a shop in the valley would replace all the bearings for about $300. I know that doesn't cover other stuff but idk if the other parts are even available.

[Funky Phil]

Yeah, I found my self doing a lot of head scratching when I went through my R154. Mostly because it was a month between disassemble and reassembly.

 

I wasnt saying you werent capable. Just that you worded like you would source out the work, like most people with a manual trans would.

 

When I was looking for a shop to go through a manual years back, it was all around $1000.

 

[ucw458]

Well given the choice if I had the $ I would rather have someone else rebuild a manual for me. ATF washes off your hands and clothes alot easier than gear oil. That's why I never took one apart. I hate gear oil.

[starquestJOE]

Well I just ordered the maxx extreme sprung 6 puck ACT Clutch, MS1-XXG6. Also replacing torque tube bushing and diff mounts with new GNT ones. I dont plan to track the car this year. Plans are for a dyno and the ocean city cruise in October since I was just waking from my coma for the May cruise.

 

Over the winter I will sorce a low mileage trans for a bomb proof build. Cryo treat somethings replace some bearings and races with hd ones. And a trans pan of the gods!

[Shelby]

Well given the choice if I had the $ I would rather have someone else rebuild a manual for me. ATF washes off your hands and clothes alot easier than gear oil. That's why I never took one apart. I hate gear oil.

 

I have repaired tons of manual trannys and FWD units from all sorts of cars and they can be many times more

expensive then auto trannys , but keep in mind each tranny can be diff in cost , but most will require lots of special tools

 

big money and reliability is one of the reasons many drag cars go with auto trans ,

one of the strongest trannys I have ever done was in the old 60's Mopars but they were all 4 speeds

 

PQ did a lot of work with rebuilding the quest 5 spd in his SOS , you can find lots of good info in the SOS on how to and what to look out for