Future JZ style swaps?

[Shelby]

 

 

Id say that's fair as we are hitting the 200 hp mark with stock 4 cyl now.

 

call me crazy but if we had two more cyls wouldn't that make 300 hp

[BOHO]

Scotty is correct. And....an engine swap is MUCH more plug and play than going MPI. Which is also his entire point. The technology is a step (or 4) about the g54b but still retains STOCK running capability...Ease of maintanence...parts availability....Power potential....There is no alternative....

[aconro]

http://www.carcraft..../#ixzz1pfz3bHnY

There was a guy on a supra forum that put the I-6 Vortex in his supra to replace the stock 7m. It was interesting to see something different especially considering i didn't know it existed. The GM I-6 motors aren't nearly as popular as the JZ's but they are starting to get their name out there.

 

As for direct injection, there is a lot to be had there. More efficient, ability to run a higher compression ratio, less prown to knock. Many people are getting good numbers out of their speed 3's and speed 6's. (2.3L turbo Direct Injection). It will be interesting to see what the future of technology brings to the table.

[BOHO]

There was a guy on a supra forum that put the I-6 Vortex in his supra to replace the stock 7m. It was interesting to see something different especially considering i didn't know it existed. The GM I-6 motors aren't nearly as popular as the JZ's but they are starting to get their name out there.

 

As for direct injection, there is a lot to be had there. More efficient, ability to run a higher compression ratio, less prown to knock. Many people are getting good numbers out of their speed 3's and speed 6's. (2.3L turbo Direct Injection). It will be interesting to see what the future of technology brings to the table.

 

But they are extremely limited with their injection setup. Not quite prefected for big fuel applications.

[RobH]

^ co worker has a 335i and that puppy is a lil rocket !

 

You are right I own an 0 335i and its a blast to drive

[jszucs]

But they are extremely limited with their injection setup. Not quite prefected for big fuel applications.

 

Need to give it a bit of time for them to start making performce one's with 2 or 4 injectors per cyl. Run 1 or 2 at lower RPM's / load and run them all during high demand. Really the only hold back I can see is the super hige fule presure requirements. But could be easily solve by them incorporating a crank driven pump setup rather then the cam driven like they are now.

 

And I HATE the tick tick tick from my mechanical pump on my GTI, maybe it's the old school Harley guy in me that hates the lifter ticking sound, but I can hear the pump ticking from inside the house.

[jszucs]

call me crazy but if we had two more cyls wouldn't that make 300 hp

 

Don't even need the 2 more cyl. Added 2 new pipes (intake and exaust) and new software for performace, and one for efficiency. On the performace tune made just shy of 300 HP.

[Shelby]

 

 

Don't even need the 2 more cyl. Added 2 new pipes (intake and exaust) and new software for performace, and one for efficiency. On the performace tune made just shy of 300 HP.

 

I was replying to the post earlier about the stock 6 inline doing 300 ,and showing our 4 cyl was just as effient , and yes I know our 4 cyl can do 300 easily with mpi , been there done that

[Cloud81918]

I think the JZ's success will probably not be replicated. It was a product of its time. It was over built in a way that engines are no longer over built. It also benefited from its inline layout. A layout the few manufactures use now. As noted BMW still offers some great inline 6s, but I don't see them becoming massively popular as parts and expertise are expensive and hard to come by.

 

I'd say the next hot engines for swaps are already here; The LS series and newer Mustang 5.0 engines. The LS has been around for a while, but popularity is not showing signs of slowing down. The new 5.0 looks to be just as successful as the LS and its 302 ancestor. The problem with V8 solutions is of course making easy flexible power cheaply and without internal engine work. They can do it, but with 2 banks of cylinders the price to do things tends to increase.

[jszucs]

I was replying to the post earlier about the stock 6 inline doing 300 ,and showing our 4 cyl was just as effient , and yes I know our 4 cyl can do 300 easily with mpi , been there done that

 

O sorry I was talking stock for stock (and my new 2.0 FSI V/W motor). I don't see a stock G54B doing 300 HP with just adding a cold air intake, and downpipe not even a full turbo back, and updating the ECU.

 

 

And to expand on the above from Cloud.... I think the V8 is going away, and inline 4 is where it's at. It's like childs play to make 400 HP from an inline 4 now adays.

Edited November 14, 2013 by jszucs

[Cloud81918]

And to expand on the above from Cloud.... I think the V8 is going away, and inline 4 is where it's at. It's like childs play to make 400 HP from an inline 4 now adays.

 

I'm not sure sure about that. While 4s can make some amazing power, the V8 is a very space efficient design. I think V8 will be here to stay for a long time. I was on the "V8s are going away" band wagon too for a long time, but they just keep getting better. The LS was pushed the V8 back to relevance and now we are seeing engines from other makes taking it a step further. And not just from the US. Eurobrands are making some amazing V8s, but as I said they tend to be pricey to play with.

 

As a swap candidate the V8 has more head room than a highstrung 4. Sure you can make 400 in an OEM four and within a decade that will see such engines coming off the showroom floor at those outputs. But those engines are going to be at peak form when built. A few mods will push more power out of them, but the limits of tuning will be small. V8s tend to offer more cubic inches and more room to make more power. That is what will continue to push the swapper to the V8. They are compact, powerful and have more head room than 4s.

 

Sure for some old cars a 400HP 4 will make lots of folks happy, but when comparing cost with potential the V8 makes economic sense that is hard to argue against. If you are doing all the swap work anyway, why not put and engine in with a largest potential possible? The V8 is that engine. It is becoming the obvious choice. They are cheap an plentiful. They fit under hoods meant to 4s. They offer good OEM levels of power an huge modification potential.

 

I'm not a V8 fiend either. I only own one V8, a truck, I perfer I6s and I4s. But V8s are a great answer when you need cheap, trouble free power that will last a long time.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Cloud81918

[jinx]

Call me crazy but i will put money on it that there will NEVER be another inline 6 from the factory that can do what a 2jz can do

without having the slightest clue about what other inline 6s r capable of.... yes u would b crazy.... or like wasting money.

Fanboy talk?

 

I recall a certain lone mitsu 4cyl waxing an entire army of 2JZ monsters, not only taking the championship, but set a world record (for the class) on their az in the process.

So I don't see whats soooo phenomenal about JZs and if a 4 can rape 'em. Who is to say any other motor can't as well?

 

Set your goal, an chose the appropriate swap candidate.

[BOHO]

lol...I must be a fanboy.....

[Shelby]

 

 

O sorry I was talking stock for stock (and my new 2.0 FSI V/W motor). I don't see a stock G54B doing 300 HP with just adding a cold air intake, and downpipe not even a full turbo back, and updating the ECU.

 

 

And to expand on the above from Cloud.... I think the V8 is going away, and inline 4 is where it's at. It's like childs play to make 400 HP from an inline 4 now adays.

 

lets make things equal your 2.0 has multiport inj , add a magna and after market ecu and 300 is very easy to do on our 2.6

 

but you younger guys have no idea of an engine that totally ruled the car world for 50 years ,and that's the old style Hemi , old 394 not the 426 modern block but one built in the 50's

[BOHO]

You're right....we have no idea.......

[19cturbo]

 

 

I recall a certain lone mitsu 4cyl waxing an entire army of 2JZ monsters, not only taking the championship, but set a world record (for the class) on their az in the process.

So I don't see whats soooo phenomenal about JZs and if a 4 can rape 'em. Who is to say any other motor can't as well?

 

 

What make the jz better than the 4 as you called it is very simply... i want to see you take a bone stock g54 long block and build it to 600-700 hp and see how many passes it will make... either of the JZ motors can hold that power on a stock platform without issue. Can you make a 4 cylinder faster? of course you can.. hell you can probably make a 3 cylinder faster. but can you make it equally as fast if you with the same funds? probably not.. Basically if you had a stock g54 and a stock 2jz and you had 2000 dollars to spend on both which one will make more power when done? and which one will last longer?

 

Im not knocking the g54 in any way here, i had one, built it and even went MPI, the car was fun, ran great! i cracked the block and it was cheaper for me to swap.. but i do believe the jz is a much better platform to start with.. they have been proven to make great power and hold it on a completely stock platform..

[jjohnson]

I like the jz for the fact that they are overbuilt , not much needed to do to the internals to get 4-500 hp and still b reliable , it has the turbo so u can cruse and get respectable gas mi and still have the race engine all in 1 package . To do this kind of swap on average how much is it costing u guys?

[jjohnson]

I like the jz for the fact that they are overbuilt , not much needed to do to the internals to get 4-500 hp and still b reliable , it has the turbo so u can cruse and get respectable gas mi and still have the race engine all in 1 package . To do this kind of swap on average how much is it costing u guys?

[fijiquest89]

I'm not sure that any engine being produced now will ever be comparable to what can be done with a jz right now. For one thing modern engines use throttle by wire instead of a throttle cable, not too difficult to overcome but it's still something you would need to consider. A far bigger problem is the theft protection that is built into new engines. With a jz all you need to make the engine run is the factory toyota ecu. Modern cars use electronic ignition switches and steering lock which must perform a handshake for drive authorization. Without the key, ignition switch, steering lock, and ecu from the original vehicle, a modern engine is not going to start or run

[19cturbo]

well, with anything, that stuff can be bypassed..

[jszucs]

O sorry I was talking stock for stock (and my new 2.0 FSI V/W motor). I don't see a stock G54B doing 300 HP with just adding a cold air intake, and downpipe not even a full turbo back, and updating the ECU.

 

 

And to expand on the above from Cloud.... I think the V8 is going away, and inline 4 is where it's at. It's like childs play to make 400 HP from an inline 4 now adays.

 

lets make things equal your 2.0 has multiport inj , add a magna and after market ecu and 300 is very easy to do on our 2.6

 

but you younger guys have no idea of an engine that totally ruled the car world for 50 years ,and that's the old style Hemi , old 394 not the 426 modern block but one built in the 50's

 

O no I'm talking a modern 2.0 4 cyl with direct injection, Just did it with my new car. 1 and 2 are worthless but the DSG is impressive, the instant shifts = no boost loss on shifts. Makes it a HW monster and I though it would be quick light to light.

 

O and I know all about the old school cars. Heavy just sat down and torq monsters because of displacement. I'll take a high strung 4 cyl that is quite, nice, smooth, goes around corners, 90 MPH feels like 25 and is getting 28.1 MPG at that speed, and still go faster and be safer. I respect the old school but we have surpassed it. Just look at what the vet has become.

Edited November 15, 2013 by jszucs

[jszucs]

I like the jz for the fact that they are overbuilt , not much needed to do to the internals to get 4-500 hp and still b reliable , it has the turbo so u can cruse and get respectable gas mi and still have the race engine all in 1 package . To do this kind of swap on average how much is it costing u guys?

 

Yep that is really what I would also say makes the JZ one of the top.

[jinx]

What make the jz better than the 4 as you called it is very simply... i want to see you take a bone stock g54 long block and build it to 600-700 hp and see how many passes it will make.

i wouldn't be trying anything silly like that

one slip and JZs blow up as well

"the 4" i referred to was the 4g63.

Dirt cheap hi mileage stock blocks done amazing things.... even using stock based electronics

Capable of more than enough 'reliable' power in a street starquest (for most)

my point was... from mild to wild, the 4g is a proven alternative. Smaller n less weight too

[starquestJOE]

I'll take a gen3 sbc over a 2jz. I have not tried either yet but from what I've read 3gen sbc can make alot of power with a single turbo. Yes a mpi g54 can make 400+hp for $2000. But for $2000 total into a 5.3 can make 700+hp. Maybe you can do the same with the 2jz but how much alone is the motor/trans combo cost? 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0 can be bought from $200 to $1000 running. Trans is your choose auto, 5speed, or 6speed. Autos you have alot to pick from. Yes you can run all those GM autos on a 2jz but at yet another cost. Single turbo yet another cost for the 2jz.

 

I my self will be doing a 5.3 swap in a roller I have now. Basic setup will be

5.3 & th400

Borg Warner s475

120lbs injectors

A1000 fuel pump

 

Setup should do 600-800whp all for under $5k

[dmyers151]

http://www.youtube.com/user/denmah?feature=watch

 

^ Just for you Joey.

 

I'm going to be following this guy's recipe in my '68 F-100 when I get around to it. He makes 600+whp ALL DAY on 100k+ mile, stock motors with just valve springs.