Horrible noises...

[hippynerd]

After pulling one of the main caps, I found a lot of grit in the locking tab of the bearing, and the bearing had a tiny groove in it. I was able to tip the motor pretty easily, so I figured 2 people could lift it out, and it was way heavier than I had thought We lifted it out, and set it down inside, but I strained my arm hard enough to make a huge bump on it (ive been rubbing it for 20 minutes now...)

 

The motor is inside, and ill take the crank out. I wish I had a bigger mic but I dont.

[hippynerd]

Last week, I pulled the pistons out, and I did find some marks on #3, but I didnt see anything else that stood out.

 

I took the main bearing caps off today, and I didnt really find much. the front bearing journal does have some slight groovyness, but not as much as the #1 piston bearing journal, the other journals look a little scratchy, but feel fairly smooth.

I guess I'll wait till tomorrow to talk to the nearest machine shop. What else should I consider having them do?

[Caliber308]

FULL REBUILD!!!!! Your engine is all full of that crap (it went through the oil, so it'sl through out the Engine block and Cylinder Head).The only way to remove it all is by rebuilding it.

 

Bill

Edited November 13, 2012 by Caliber308

[Skullzaflare]

FULL REBUILD!!!!! Your engine is all full of that crap (it went through the oil, so it'sl through out the Engine block and Cylinder Head).The only way to remove it all is by rebuilding it.

 

Bill

oil cooler and lines will also have it. As well as inside the turbo

[hippynerd]

I have everything out of the car (except the cooler and lines), so obviously all that will be cleaned out before rebuilding the engine.

 

I didnt find much material, most of the debris seems to have been confined to one bearing, and not all that much material to begin with (like about 1/2 of a split peas volume of material) the oil and block look pretty clean.

 

I would love to spend a thousand bucks rebuilding a motor, but I dont have that. I have spent over $5k fixing this car up, and as it is, nobody is trying to buy it, so, I would like to do the best I can at rebuilding the motor, without spending money on things that I dont have to spend money on. As it is I spend way more time fixing this car, than driving it, and Im not making any money on it, I will probably lose money on it.

[Skullzaflare]

I have everything out of the car (except the cooler and lines), so obviously all that will be cleaned out before rebuilding the engine.

 

I didnt find much material, most of the debris seems to have been confined to one bearing, and not all that much material to begin with (like about 1/2 of a split peas volume of material) the oil and block look pretty clean.

 

I would love to spend a thousand bucks rebuilding a motor, but I dont have that. I have spent over $5k fixing this car up, and as it is, nobody is trying to buy it, so, I would like to do the best I can at rebuilding the motor, without spending money on things that I dont have to spend money on. As it is I spend way more time fixing this car, than driving it, and Im not making any money on it, I will probably lose money on it.

so after you "rebuild" it, and some of the excess bearing material that was stock in the block/head/rockers/turbo somewhere comes loose and locks up the oil pump, and destroys everything, you will do a full rebuild?

also, a full rebuild is by no means 1000 dollars, unless you are paying someone to do everything

go get the block cooked and washed (usually 75-100 bucks)

replace main and rod bearings

have the crank checked and turned if needed, also have the rod from the bad cylinder checked

those at the bare minimum

not that throwing in a set of rings and a hone adds much more to the price.

also, for the most part these cars are valueless unless in good shape low miles, or a mpi. otherwise, presuming its the car for sale in the sig, id say you might get 2000 depending on people in your area. however car values change by area

[hippynerd]

I talked the machine shop, it will cost about $50 to have the crank and rods cleaned and checked out. My guess is that is the crank will cost about $350 to have ground and nitride coated, another $150 to have the block cleaned.

So... theres $500, then another $75 for new rod and crank bearings, a bunch of work, and I will have a basic motor (nothing fancy, like o-ringing or even decking.) This is assuming the block, rods, and pistons are usuable and wont cost more to repair.

 

 

Since I have the engine out, I should probably have the clutchplate and flywheels surfaced, and buy a brand new clutch, my guess is that will be over $200.

I will need a new seal kit, thats about $100.

Thats getting pretty close to $900, and that is me doing most of the work, just not the machining.

 

This block has about 180 miles on it, the cylinder walls look clean, straight and smooth, so probably I should consider having it honed and scored (or whatever thats called), or maybe have it bored and ringed, having it decked and ringed would probably be best too. I imagine that will be rather expensive.

 

Randy, what would you do? how much do you charge for this stuff?

 

Even though I have too many cars, and am constantly getting tickets for them, I dont see any chance of selling any of them. My dads car and this car are the 2 that I need the least. My dads car was like $20k 10 years ago, and I cant even get $5k for it, and it only has 50k miles on it, so I wont be selling it.

I've spent over $5k on this car and spent a lot of time restoring it. I've put about 10,000 miles on it in the last 5 years. and I probably wont be able to sell it for 1/2 of what it has cost me to fix it up, so I wont be selling it.

 

I like my red and white 83 starion, but I keep pulling parts off of it, to keep the 86 running so I can sell it. All my vehicles have to be running good enough to move them around, because the city keeps putting tickets on my vehicles. There seems to be no winning for me.

[hippynerd]

I just got back from the machine shop. $40 to check the crank and rods. another $40 if it can just be Clean/Mag/Polished (probably not), I think its another $75 to grind the crank. They said that if its less than 10 thousandths of an inch, they wont need to re-nitrite coat it.

New bearings and and seal kit is about $150.

 

So, about 200-250 for the crank, bearings and seals, if things are not too damaged.

 

Maybe I can clean the block and the rest of the parts myself.

 

I asked about honing, and thats only another $65, and $50 for new rings. and I think about $50 to clean the block.

 

I forgot to ask about the clutchplate.

[Skullzaflare]

I just got back from the machine shop. $40 to check the crank and rods. another $40 if it can just be Clean/Mag/Polished (probably not), I think its another $75 to grind the crank. They said that if its less than 10 thousandths of an inch, they wont need to re-nitrite coat it.

New bearings and and seal kit is about $150.

 

So, about 200-250 for the crank, bearings and seals, if things are not too damaged.

 

Maybe I can clean the block and the rest of the parts myself.

 

I asked about honing, and thats only another $65, and $50 for new rings. and I think about $50 to clean the block.

 

I forgot to ask about the clutchplate.

yea you dont have to recoat the crank, if i remember right, someone tested the crank by grinding it to 30 over, and it was still coated, but getting thin

go ahead and get him to do 10 over, clean block.

when you say the block only has 180 miles, are you saying thats how many miles are on the internals?

[Dad]

Keep us posted, Be sure to clean out the oil cooler and lines. Crank should be ok even at 020. Be sure to have conn rods done. Best to tank the block, let the shop hone it.

 

Dad

[hippynerd]

Doh! I meant 180k. Im thinking it may be worth the money to have the cylinders honed, just because it has 180k miles on the block, not because I found any damage, and it may not cost too much more.

 

I would also need new rings, It would be more money, but I dont want to do all this work, and expense, and cheap out on $100 expense that really would increase its resale value. Its like the clutch issue, I could put that clutch back in, and it would work, but while I have it out, it might be worth spending a little money, A new clutch would be better than the current one.

[Skullzaflare]

Doh! I meant 180k. Im thinking it may be worth the money to have the cylinders honed, just because it has 180k miles on the block, not because I found any damage, and it may not cost too much more.

 

I would also need new rings, It would be more money, but I dont want to do all this work, and expense, and cheap out on $100 expense that really would increase its resale value. Its like the clutch issue, I could put that clutch back in, and it would work, but while I have it out, it might be worth spending a little money, A new clutch would be better than the current one.

rebuilt motor doesnt change car value, same as fresh paint, and new tires

 

if its that high of course change rings, and you have to have a hone if you change the rings, or it wont seal and smoke like a train or lack of compression

[hippynerd]

Crank grind, bearings and gaskets are going to be $261 so far.

[ColdScrip]

Motors aren't like replacing a part. Just because something looks good doesn't mean it is. You spend money on lets say %70 of the motor and its the other 30% that was neglected that's going to ruin all 100%.

 

If you can't afford to do it right then you cant afford to do it twice.

[hippynerd]

You have posted some cliches, but no actual content. What am I supposed to take from this post?

[TexasQuest]

Basically rebuild the ENTIRE engine not just part of it.

[hippynerd]

Did you notice that the entire engine has been disassembled? What exactly is meant by entire engine rebuild, It seems it can mean just about anything.

[Skullzaflare]

Did you notice that the entire engine has been disassembled? What exactly is meant by entire engine rebuild, It seems it can mean just about anything.

bearings, bearings, timing assembly, bs bearings and chain or bse, rings, hone, deck the block, etc

[hippynerd]

Is it not a rebuild if you dont remove any metal (hone/bore/deck). What about adding new metal, if you dont replace the bearings, or chain/gears, or rings, is it a rebuild?

 

I would love to build the best possible engine, but realistically, I will never get any of this money back, its just freebie extras for whomever buys the car. I will most likely be paying money to restore a car for someone else.

 

If I sold this car for $5,500 I would be the exact same thing as working a job for a year, and not getting paid. If I can get $4,000 for the car, It will be the exact same thing as paying $1500 to work a job for a year. From this perspective, I really dont want to do any more than I have to do, or spend any more than I need to spend, but I cant afford to not fix something that needs fixing.

[Skullzaflare]

Is it not a rebuild if you dont remove any metal (hone/bore/deck). What about adding new metal, if you dont replace the bearings, or chain/gears, or rings, is it a rebuild?

 

I would love to build the best possible engine, but realistically, I will never get any of this money back, its just freebie extras for whomever buys the car. I will most likely be paying money to restore a car for someone else.

 

If I sold this car for $5,500 I would be the exact same thing as working a job for a year, and not getting paid. If I can get $4,000 for the car, It will be the exact same thing as paying $1500 to work a job for a year. From this perspective, I really dont want to do any more than I have to do, or spend any more than I need to spend, but I cant afford to not fix something that needs fixing.

you need to get 1 thing through your head, you do not get back what you put in these cars. without a motor your looking at 1500 max if that

yes rebuilding doesnt increase value, however, it increases it from not having a motor

if you replace the rings and not have a hone, the rings wont seat, it will probably smoke and have low compression

if you half rig it like it sounds like your asking, it will blow up again long before you get any offers with it for sale

 

a general rebuild would consist of bearings and rings. sometimes oil pump depending on the situation. timing chain is just a duh thing to do since its all apart, already has high mileage, and probably was never done before

[hippynerd]

The timing chain is fairly new, It was new about 10,000 miles ago when i did the BSEK on this motor all those parts are new. The motor has 180k miles on it, but otherwise is fine.

 

The rings and the block are undamaged, but have 180k miles worth of wear. The ONLY real reason I can see to bore/hone/ring would because its all apart right now, and would be more convenient than doing it all over again.

 

Yes, I've learned my lesson about buying this car to restore it. I figured since I wasnt working much, I could maybe fix this car up, and sell it for at least what I paid for it, and when the car was $750, and just needed some new rod bearings, it seemed like a good idea. I could keep this car out of the landfill, and at least not lose any money on it. Things didnt work out well for me (many times over, actually), I had problems that cost me a lot more money than I had planned on, I also made mistakes that cost money.

 

It was a really bad idea buying this car. It would have been a much better idea to spend the money on drugs, because taking a bunch of drugs would have been a lot less work, than fixing up this car.

[TexasQuest]

It was a really bad idea buying this car. It would have been a much better idea to spend the money on drugs, because taking a bunch of drugs would have been a lot less work, than fixing up this car.

LOL

[hippynerd]

Im getting the block ready to take down for cleaning tomorrow. what should I remove?

 

I have taken the oval plate on the side of the block off, and the oil pump, and the metal plate on the back of the block.

 

They said they take the freeze plugs out, clean it, then put new plugs in. It will cost about $75.

 

I think i can clean the rest by hand. Im wondering how much I should clean the block up, I dont want to make extra work for them, but I dont want to waste effort cleaning up stuff when I dont need too. Should I get all the old gasket material off? how about the RTV type stuff.

 

I guess I could probably knock it off pretty quick with a wire wheel on a drill.

[Skullzaflare]

Im getting the block ready to take down for cleaning tomorrow. what should I remove?

 

I have taken the oval plate on the side of the block off, and the oil pump, and the metal plate on the back of the block.

 

They said they take the freeze plugs out, clean it, then put new plugs in. It will cost about $75.

 

I think i can clean the rest by hand. Im wondering how much I should clean the block up, I dont want to make extra work for them, but I dont want to waste effort cleaning up stuff when I dont need too. Should I get all the old gasket material off? how about the RTV type stuff.

 

I guess I could probably knock it off pretty quick with a wire wheel on a drill.

if they are cleaning it, its done in a tank or washer, not my hand lol

if its the same "cleaning" as wash and bake, the block will look new

pull freeze plugs or let them, remove the oil squirters, remove the oil filter housing, remove the knock sensor, remove the coolant tube, course pump etc you already got

[hippynerd]

Thanks, I'll pull the squirters and the oil filter thing, I have removed the other stuff... I've never taken that stuff off before, i hope its not difficult.