First start up on rebuild and hydro lifters won't shut up

[NudeLobster]

I retorqued the head hot today and cranked it over by hand and made sure every lifter pressurizes- which they do. That baffled me. The shafts were in the correct position with the mating dimples matching up. Indiana, I'll get some 10-30 when im back in town next week. Or should I go even thicker?

 

The facebook update tech is talking about is this: I took it to drive finally to see if the lifters would quite down with some driving. made it half way around the block when i came to a hill and as soon as the car got load it sputtered, back fired, and started dying out. It idles fine, it revs freely fine, but when it gets load below like 3k rpm, it does the sputter/backfire/die out thing. I was able to ease it all the way up to just under 6k rpm smoothly with just barely any throttle. engine braked it back down to idle and went again. I was able to smoothly reach positive pressure in the manifold above 3kish rpm with no stutters or anything. I made sure not to boost it much so i kept it around 1psi. I checked timing about 12 times, and got the distributor to 10btdc (with a light) and it landed just so that the notch in the distributor lined up with the top edge of the cylinder head- which i think is how it's suppose to be? still didnt help with the load problem though. I then just got it back to the shop and parked it because I was already late for work. Now I'm going out of town and won't be back to the car until next Tuesday.

 

I think it's ignition problems because I would watch my wideband when it was sputtering and dying out. from a high 14-low 15 idle, on rev up to slip the clutch it would stay right in the 14s and then when it would get load from slipping the clutch it would still be at 14-15 until it went a hay wire 10 (maxed) to 18+ (maxed) which i think is just whack readings due to the backfires. By that I don't think its fuel? my injectors ran perfectly fine when I took the engine apart and I left the whole intake mani and TB assembled and it sat on the shelf while I did the block and head work.

 

Vacuum advance is less than a year old and was working fine when I tore the car down.

 

I was told possibly a bad 02 sensor? that isn't very old either but it could be a possibility...

 

It has an MSD 6al system but that was all working great when i tore the engine down and I never actually touched any of that. Just unplugged the distributor to remove the engine...rest of the ignition system stayed as it was.

 

I made my own MSD wires the other day using a universal v8 kit and all the crimps looked GREAT. They were done using the supplied tool from MSD and I followed the procedure outlined by the kit.

 

I guess when I come back my list will be:

 

-thicker oil

-New injector clips ( I have a spare set that I've been meaning to upgrade to [quick release style] sooo yeah)

-new 02 sensor maybe?

-new spark plugs ( I have a spare sets...I used my old ones today because I left my spares back at the house. my old ones all looked good and were properly gapped though.)

-ensure all plug wires are tight

 

edit: also, cal: my title outlines my exact problem I started the topic for. "first start up on rebuild and hydro lifters wont shut up" I think that is pretty descriptive since I was asking for reasons why my hydraulic lifters wouldn't quite down...

 

edit 2: seller- I found it's an adjustment I need to make on the throttle cable that is making it idle high. if i pull on the pedal with my foot idle drops to 900-950. CTS is wired correctly...never messed with the stock wiring. I'll run through the TPS/ISC reset again though I had just reset them prior to removing the engine and that whole system stayed assembled on the manifold on the shelf the whole time. Only thing that would have changed is throttle cable adjustment.

Edited June 27, 2012 by NudeLobster

[Technology]

Sounds like the secondary isn't working.

[NudeLobster]

Sounds like the secondary isn't working.

 

At first I thought secondary injector troubles, but then how could i take it to almost 6k? even on low load, the secondary must kick in by 6k...

 

-Justin

[Killtodie]

I believe you can free rev on primary to redline, not 100%

[Dad]

sounds like maybe boost leak- vac leak?? What caused the noisy lifters? I would assume they are quiet now since you took it out for a spin.

[Skullzaflare]

 

At first I thought secondary injector troubles, but then how could i take it to almost 6k? even on low load, the secondary must kick in by 6k...

 

-Justin

as long as you are out of boost you can drive to redline on just the primary

[Caliber308]

If the secondary injector has problems you will know it at appox. 2500 to 3000 rpms while sitting still. Your Wideband will go to appox.10.0 AFR, and will miss and sputter like crazy if it is leaking or stuck wide open. What is your AFR reading at cruise?

 

Bill

Edited June 27, 2012 by Caliber308

[Caliber308]

I believe you can free rev on primary to redline, not 100%

 

WRONG, want to go lean and make a mess of your engine? Sitting at a stand still and "Free" revving your car to 6000 rpms ??????? Yea Toadie, That is REDLINE on our cars and NOT RECOMMENDED when your sitting still . For those of you new members reading this........Disregard what Killtodie said. Toadie, If your going to give advice, and your not 100% sure, please give knowledgeable advice or none at all. Not advice that might cause a member to blow the hell out of their engine by just running their car on the Primary Fuel Injector to redline

 

P.S. By the way, Todie is properly spelled Toadie

 

Bill

Edited June 27, 2012 by Caliber308

[Killtodie]

Btw, Bill is properly spelled d***

[Caliber308]

Btw, Bill is properly spelled d***

 

Toadie,

 

Your giving incorrect advice. Please stop for the sake of the newer members. No wonder some of you guys are always having problems with your cars Toadie, Have you been pouring POR15 in your Fuel tank instead of gas???

 

Bill

Edited June 27, 2012 by Caliber308

[Caliber308]

NudeLobster,

 

Maybe if your post started with this: " First start up on my Cylinder Head Rebuild" and if you would have told us about your High Lift Camshaft, Rockers and Lifters we would have had a better idea on what you posted and how to respond in the first place I wasn't the only one who had problems with the information...Dad did too. Now, tell him the same thing you just told me in your prior post "I'll get some 10/30 oil next week when i'm in town, or should I go with some thicker oil"?......YOUR NOT LISTENING!!!!! to expert advice. When a experienced member tells you to use 10/30, use 10/30. So, how are we suppose to help you when your questioning experienced members advice?

 

 

Bill

Edited June 27, 2012 by Caliber308

[Technology]

Bill, you're no mitsu tech either and you speak in hear-say generalities and assumptions, in other words: misinformation. Oil pressure rises with RPM, Fram filters reduce oil pressure over the entire RPM range, it says right on the car that you can use 5w-30 in the engine in cold weather. Those are facts.

 

Now here's my opinion: Thinner oil should pump up lifters faster since it can flow through smaller passages with greater ease than high viscosity ones. If those lifters are still making tons of noise, maybe something is wrong mechanically, they shouldn't be making noise. You can test this by asking a friend to let you borrow their lifters, or just buying new ones and taking a gamble that yours are bad. take some cardboard and surround the head with it, remove the valve cover and start the engine. identify the problem visually or by listening carefully. I dunno, let someone listen to it who knows the cars really well.

[Killtodie]

That cardboard thing. We did that when priming the engine some time ago after installing the new head. It was squirting oil quite a lot with just the stater motor going. I would not recommend that with the engine at full idle.

 

If you head was dismantled when you pressure tested it, I would suspect that something was not put back together correctly.

[Dad]

Going to join the pissing contest.... I can only assume that the lifter nose is fixed?????/ No way in hell do you drive the car without knowing if the lifters are getting oil. Now when My secondary injector was not fireing due to a wiring issue,, if I floored it in nuetruel it would rev to about 3k then die, pick up again just before stall, then die at 3 k.. is this what yours is doing?

[NudeLobster]

I drove it with the lifter noise but I know they were getting oil-

I retorqued the head hot today and cranked it over by hand and made sure every lifter pressurizes- which they do. That baffled me. The shafts were in the correct position with the mating dimples matching up. Indiana, I'll get some 10-30 when im back in town next week. Or should I go even thicker?

 

When cranking by hand I had made sure every lifter pressurized sometime during the cycle. Like I posted earlier, we had also pressurized all the lifters until they all squirted oil out of the top bleed holes when the ignition and fuel was still out of the car. I cranked it with the starter while Derrick made sure that every lifter got oil.

 

The noise didn't go away with the lifters.

 

Cal, I didn't "question an experienced member". Indiana never stated what weight he recommended I use- I was the one that mentioned 10w30, and that's why I asked if I should go even thicker.

What part of NEVER run 5w oil in this motor do you people not understand? Doesn't haveanythingto do withage, its about the design of the system. All Mitsubishi engine specs for this motor say to not use 5w oil and that it will cause NOISES. The secondpartofyournoises are from the O/S valves and the HD springs. Those springs and perhaps the cam profile let the larger valve slap closed harder and y ou can hear them especially with a header.

 

If some boob mashed the lifters in a vise to collapse them, they are ruined. Try cleaning them the proper way but get that 5w oil out of there.

 

 

 

Everyone is getting hot nuts about me not giving info yet everyone is discussing different things, arguing back and forth with stuff I never mentioned, and then turning around and freaking out on me for not giving enough information when the information in question is stuff other members are suggesting might be possible. I havent been able to get to a computer much in the past few days, sorry I couldn't keep up on the topic.

 

-Justin

[wrngwae]

its ok justin,,,,,,,, a few deep breaths man.... you will get thru this.

[Frenchi934]

If i remember correctly, Justin is running a cam that he got from flatbroke (?)

 

I know with my 274h, the lifters never were quiet like they should be and i also know they were getting oil. I watched them prime without the v/c on while cranking. I checked all the oil passages in the lifters and lifter rod (the pivot) and they were still loud. They werent terribly loud but it was noticable. I also noticed that the tappets were coming apart after low 5 digit mile intervals so i switched to mech lifters and the problem has been fixed (still loudish, but they have the correct lash, .005 and .007). My guess was that my problem was the regrind had too much of a ground base circle to properly keep the hyd tappets preloaded.

 

I know what the title says, but this thread isnt about really break in. that really has nothing to do with lifter tick (when it wont go away).

 

Justin, did you ever check your plug wires? Fuel filter maybe?

 

The FSM says for poor/ hesitant acceleration:

 

air cleaner

ignition

compression too low

fuel line clogged

injection issue

egr always on

vacuum leaks

engine overheats

 

I think you can eliminate most of these fairly easily. so ive striked through them. (if you havent done a compression test already, go ahead and do one,just so you know where you stand after the rebuild)

 

-Id check for vacuum leaks and exhaust leaks in the vacuum hoses, intake manifold and the injection mixer (as well as the fpr hose).

-Then id make sure that the diaphragm on your vac advance, and your FPR are working (its easy, just put a hose on it and suck/blow through it. YOu should be able to tell if it holds pressure or leaks.

- Fuel filter/line clogged makes sense too (somewhat). it could be worth a check.

- If its none of these things, Id go to the ignition side next. Are the wires crossed (getting a cross spark from wire to wire?). are they properly connected? Like i said before sometimes an arcing plug wire will sound like a ticking lifter.

- We know your timing is right, so are your rotor/ cap in good condition? fairly new coil? (if its old like mine you can test the coil pretty easily, how-to is in the fsm)

- last thing id check is fuel. Id check the connections on your Maf-t, then all the factory stuff. (its last because you really havent messed with it recently)

 

good luck bud.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Frenchi934

[Killtodie]

fyi, just is currently out of state. wont be back till next week

[Caliber308]

Bill, you're no mitsu tech either and you speak in hear-say generalities and assumptions, in other words: misinformation.

 

Never claimed to be. I give information from my experiences with these cars. If this poster, or any other member who posts for help wants expert advice....Your asking at the wrong place. Spend your money asking the "Real Experts". After all, the advice you receive on here from members who spend their time answering your posts for help...... is FREE!!! So, you get what you paid for

 

Bill

Edited July 2, 2012 by Caliber308

[Indiana]

You are NOT to use 5W oil in a Starion 2.6 motor E V E R. The lubrication system is not designed for it. There's X time to pressurize the system after start up and this is where the WEAR happens. Having light weight oil in this motor that isn't at full operating temperature is causing damage to it. You see oil "pressure" on a gauge, that's misleading. Pay little attention to that gauge, as long as pressure is there, that's all you need to know. A light would be better, it would stop the BSing that goes around that's for sure. The sending unit is on the filter adapter and it gets the oil first, its just before the turbo feed in the same path and comes from the filter adapter at the filter before it ever enters the engine block and its the back pressure from the oil feed hole in that tube and what can't feed through the turbo and there's your pressure reading. It doesn't mean crap what's in the oil galley cause that's not where you gauge gets the pressure reading from unless you put the sending unit into that hole in the side of the block. This is why when you use thick oil you get what appears to be so much more pressure but your flow is crap when its cold. All the oil weights when they are 212 degrees are nearly the same but you have to get there and that's why you don't use thick oils and you don't use thin oils you use what's good for your climate. This isn't winter and if its 70 out or 150 that doesn't matter, the motor isn't at 212 degrees nor is the oil and you turn that key and that motor rotates there's no pressure and that thin oil isn't F L O W I N G in the lubrication in the same way cold as it does hot, its too thin so it oozes out clearances of the mains, the rods and only a little bit goes to the head then it oozes out the rocker arms and the holes above the lifters spray oil out and what's left over? Don't forget you have a jet spraying the timing chain, the oil jets for the pistons too but what is stealing the oil F L O W when the oil is cold is that relief valve in the oil pump. You see the pressure yes but just enough to make pressure and its blowing lots out that relief valve and you think it gets the same pressure at the rocker shafts? Oh no no no it doesn't. If its too thick it flows too slow, if its too thin it never gets there in sufficient volume to make pressure. There's oil coming from the pump gears out the pump cover on both sides, there's the balance shafts if you have those, there's the plunger for the timing chain they had the noise issue with that resulted in the TSB to add that rubber stick inside the spring to take up SPACE that changed the time for oil to reach the rod bearings after start up and it doesn't matter which oil pump pickup tube you use, or pump gasket either. The oil volume and pressure flow changes after the engine is all heated up and that means 212 degrees, both oil AND COOLANT. You can look up what happens to oil cold and hot on that Bobistheoilguy site if you want to see all the details. They didn't tell you any of this in any manual but they have said over and over again through out the years to not use 5W oil in this motor. There's not one reason to use 5W oil in this engine anyway and those that do shouldn't be using it in the TURBO version and then its only for WINTER use. You know the turbo cooks the oil and that overheated oil turns to crap. Make sure your oil cooler is getting the air flow if you have to move it. Use SYNTHETIC oils because they have the ability to tolerate the heat better and last longer.

 

If you have one of those Marnel overpriced cylinder heads that crack like all the others, they didn't bore the front cap right or make the feed restrictor opening for hydraulic lifter applications. You need to clean up what they did where it feeds oil to the left side rocker shaft and slightly enlarge the restriction opening and this is in that first cam tower cap.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000451.JPGhttp://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000492.JPG

 

 

Here's 1988 information and 1996 information and its from the factory.