Burton Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) I'm ready to go as soon as the ABS gets here. My Lexan/ABS supplier is frustrating. He's got good prices, and sometimes shipping is lighting fast, but lately it seems his shipping is getting longer and longer. Hoping it's here today and I can have some sets made and ready to sell by this weekend. Oh, and prices will be as follows.... $85 shipped for just the 2 piece ABS, with stainless mounting hardware. Adding stabilizers will add $30 for 2 or $55 for 4. It looks like there will be a choice between just standard metal stabilizers, and ones that have some carbon fiber garnishing on them. I'll know more and have piucs after I get those purchased and here. Also, there will be 3 different versions availible... One that fits the 88/89 airdam, one that fits the 86/87 airdam and one for a flatty airdam. The issue is that the 86/87 and the flatty airdam don't have a lip on the bottom of their airdams like the 88/89 style, so I have had to come up with templates to give them mounting locations to allow for a way to mount the splitter to those airdams. Edited April 9, 2012 by Burton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_StarionTSI Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Well, I have a 3 piece at the moment that is broken, im planning on getting a one piece before i install the splitter. But I plan on buying a splitter first lol. Keep us posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verde2002 Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Seems like another member was following your progress, beat you to it and just listed the ABS splitters on the parts for sale forum yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w239/johnboy9788/front_wind_splitter.jpghttp://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w239/johnboy9788/R01SB0255a_A.jpg I love the idea, but with these and the others, for a real gain in aero performance, the splitter needs to go rearward further under the car. I know you have to allow room for the tires to clear while steering, but the further it could be under the car the better. Flat bottoms, less drag. I have been planning to flat bottom my car for a while now, like everything else its still in progress. Bolting it to the bottom of the air damn isnt a good idea either. It should be secured to the frame so the air damn can rest ontop. If its just for the visual, the air damn will work just fine. But at speed its going to pull on the air damn. Thanks again for bringing porducts to the market Burton, sorry I couldnt chime in sooner, I havent had much time lately. Edited April 10, 2012 by Convette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted April 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Seems like another member was following your progress, beat you to it and just listed the ABS splitters on the parts for sale forum yesterday. It's all good. I'm not really worried too much about it. His cost $22 more and as far as I can tell, all he offers is one for the 88/89 style airdam. If people can't wait a couple of weeks and want to spend more money, then more power to 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted April 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w239/johnboy9788/front_wind_splitter.jpghttp://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w239/johnboy9788/R01SB0255a_A.jpg I love the idea, but with these and the others, for a real gain in aero performance, the splitter needs to go rearward further under the car. I know you have to allow room for the tires to clear while steering, but the further it could be under the car the better. Flat bottoms, less drag. I have been planning to flat bottom my car for a while now, like everything else its still in progress. Bolting it to the bottom of the air damn isnt a good idea either. It should be secured to the frame so the air damn can rest ontop. If its just for the visual, the air damn will work just fine. But at speed its going to pull on the air damn. Thanks again for bringing porducts to the market Burton, sorry I couldnt chime in sooner, I havent had much time lately. All I'm really going for is visual, at least right now, while I get the product going. While there are a handful of hardcore tuner guys here that might want a more performance based piece, most people here want something that looks good for cheap. Price point and volume are the two most important points for me when it comes to deciding what parts to bring to the SQ community. I'd rather be able to sell 10 splitters for $100, rather than 3 or 4 for $300. The R&D for a more performance based part would be much more, and having to make a 1 piece with material back as far as possible brings the price of material cost up too. It's deffinately something to take into consideration tho. I do plan to offer some 1 piece ones down the road for a higher price for guys who are looking for something like that. Maybe when I make that part, I will make it come back much further and bolt to the frame instead of the airdams themselves, which would make it more of a performance based part. That way I'll be able to cover all possible sales, wether the customer wants the performance based part, or just something cheaper that makes their car look cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_StarionTSI Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 why dont you do the splitter like you are doing now, and make an addon with that going to the back as convette stated. in a way, a 3 piece set. The splitter in 2 pieces and the extension (which acts as reinforcement too) that goes layered in or slide on with the bolts to the frame. I kinda have it pictured out in my head. Let me know if you get what im saying, cuase I can whip up a quick diagram so you can see what i mean. Like that you dont need to make a new mold. It just gives people the option to choose. And those who buy them now, can decide to get the attachment piece later. And Convette, as you stated, about the force on the airdam at higher speeds, thats why I want mine with the stabilizers, itll hold it in place and avoid any possible damage on the airdam caused by the rushing air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Right on Burton. I know your on top things man, Just posting my .02. I do think that you could def get away with a 3 piece design tho like Mike said, and the profit/cost can be reasonable. Looking forward to seeing this though for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted April 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 why dont you do the splitter like you are doing now, and make an addon with that going to the back as convette stated. in a way, a 3 piece set. The splitter in 2 pieces and the extension (which acts as reinforcement too) that goes layered in or slide on with the bolts to the frame. I kinda have it pictured out in my head. Let me know if you get what im saying, cuase I can whip up a quick diagram so you can see what i mean. Like that you dont need to make a new mold. It just gives people the option to choose. And those who buy them now, can decide to get the attachment piece later. I had thought about that, but in the end, I'd rather just make any 1 piece design I come up with be everything everyone (willing to spend the money) wants. It's hard for me to justify charging $175+ for a performance oriented part that looks like it pieces together, especially since all the other splitters designed for performance are all 1 piece. I don't want to take the time to try and have a pieced together unit that some serious gearheads might think is not truly a performance benefit. Instead I'd rather spend more time, and offer a much better part at a higher price point. Then the true tuner geeks can either pony up for the performance piece, or the guys who just want the visual look can get the less expensive part. I guess that kind of leaves out everyone in the middle, but I can't cater to everyone. I prefer to stick with either low-profit, high-volume stuff, or very low-volume, high-profit stuff, as 90% of the customers seem to fall into those two categories. People either want the cheapest part they can get that is quality craftsmanship, or they want the highest end stuff with the highest quality craftsmanship I'd have to make a template for the 3rd piece anyway, so I'm better off just making a template to make a 1 piece splitter design. The 3rd piece would need to be at least 63" long to be able to attach to the already existing 2 pieces, whereas a 1 piece that is 64-65" long isn't going to cost much more to buy or ship. Material in sheets less than 36" long is MUCH cheaper than anyting longer than 48", so material cost is going to be pretty much the same wether I get a 64" long piece, or a 66" long piece. In fact, if I want pieces longer than about 60", I pretty much have to buy ABS in 4'X8' sheet form and then cut them down from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 waiting on the finish product looking really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turborusty Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Will it split atoms? I might have a go at it if it does........if not. Sell them to guys without nuclear ambitions. Turborusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_StarionTSI Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 hm.....true....but what if that back plate is made of sheet metal and goes in the order --> Airdam>Splitter>undertray. or at least a template so we can buy the sheet metal and do it ourselves As suchhttp://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/tonito1961/Airdam.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fijiblueman Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 i think you need one that follows the contour of the air damn itself. let me see what i can dig up this is the only one i can find, but without the side fins. just one that follows the line of the air damn. not one that looks like someone cut it out of a square http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/007_dawg/PICT8881.jpgyou wanna fabricate some of these sideskirts too? cant wait to see the final product, look good man Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoCam360 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 In reference to one of the posts from another member implying that MC360 was following this thread and beat Burton to the market - that simply isn't true and we would never consider doing business this way. As you can see in the time/date stamp of our prototype photo, we were already done prototyping before this thread ever got off the ground. Burton is correct that we only have plans for the '88-'89 air dam splitter at this time. http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc409/motocam360/Chin%20Spoilers/SQChinSpoilerFullsm.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchi934 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 ^also. its not like these are the first of their kind, nor would burton have been the first to make these for these cars. no need to imply that any vendors are operating shady business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verde2002 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 In reference to one of the posts from another member implying that MC360 was following this thread and beat Burton to the market - that simply isn't true and we would never consider doing business this way. As you can see in the time/date stamp of our prototype photo, we were already done prototyping before this thread ever got off the ground. Burton is correct that we only have plans for the '88-'89 air dam splitter at this time. http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc409/motocam360/Chin%20Spoilers/SQChinSpoilerFullsm.jpg My apologies on that fact. It was an asumption I had made and it was obviously incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) In reference to one of the posts from another member implying that MC360 was following this thread and beat Burton to the market - that simply isn't true and we would never consider doing business this way. As you can see in the time/date stamp of our prototype photo, we were already done prototyping before this thread ever got off the ground. Burton is correct that we only have plans for the '88-'89 air dam splitter at this time. http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc409/motocam360/Chin%20Spoilers/SQChinSpoilerFullsm.jpg Well, I did post about making these much earlier than this thread, so we can't go by the dates of your prototype VS when this thread started. In fact, I think it was about a week after the original thread that I posted in, I saw you were working on a prototype. I'm guessing we both saw that thread and both realized there was interest for a non-carbon fiber splitter, and both got to R&Ding one. I doubt anyone tried to beat anyone else to market, just two vendors who saw a similar interest and decided to make similar parts at around the same time. You just got your R&D done first. It's all good. We can call it even for you accusing me of "copying" your fog light covers a while back, and trying to say I made them with less than quality standards. Personally, I think it's funny that people would expect only one vendor to carry particular products. McD's, Burger King and Wendy's all sell burgers. Some people prefer one over the other, just as some may perfer motocams waterjet cut splitter or the funky radius on the sides, over my jig sawn splitter with tapered sides. Some people may rather have mine because it is less expensive and is still a quality looking part. It's all a matter of taste, and as with burgers, some people may prefer mine over Motocam's or vice versa. All of my products are things similar to other parts others have offered before. If I see something that looks cool and sells, then I try to make a similar item, but only if I can seel it for less than what's out there. All of my products have been made by just seeing a cool part on someones car. Many years ago I saw a pic of a SQ with fog covers and noticed in the pic the hardware was hidden with Snap Caps. At the time, I don't even think Motocam was on the boards much then, and there were deffinately no fog covers for sale at the time. I had a bunch of Lexan and Snap Caps, and just started cutting and fitting parts until I had a product that fit well. Once I had a nice looking product for myself there was lots of interest in me selling them and nobody else at the time who was selling them, so I started selling them. I made my first splitter in 05, but was deffinately not the first. I had seen a pic of one on a SQ, and thought it looked pretty cool, so I made one for my car. Now, I'm going to make them for other cars. I deffinately wasn't the first to sell OEM style reproduction Conquest decals, but I had the equipment to make them, and was able to sell them for nearly half of what everyone else was. It not only helps me make money, but it allows the people in the community to not have to pay the high prices of a vendor that has a monopoly. I never physically get a competitor's product in my hands to copy. I just see an idea, and engineer the product myself. Any similarity in design is because that's the most proper, cost-effective way to design that praticuallar part, and is about the same way any other vendor would probably design their's too. I spent 13 years working the the automotive tooling industry and also have my Journeyman's mold making card, so I know what it takes to R&D a new part all on my own without having to phisically copy another vendor's product. For instance, the wife just got a Kia Sorento. I saw a guy selling mesh grille insert kits similar to kits I sell for other cars. He is the only guy selling them for Sorentos and wants almost $100. I know that it's maybe $40 worth of mesh stock, and a half hour of time to make each set, so I'm going to make my own kit using the wife's car for prototyping, then be able to sell the same thing for about $60 or $70. Frankly, I'd be able to sell them for $50 and turn a small profit still, but at $70, I can make more money, and still be 30% cheaper than any other compareable product for that vehicle. I welcome any competition from any vendor. I'm fairly confident I can make a quality part for a lower price, otherwise, I wouldn't bring it to market. I may sell 2, or I may sell 20. Either way, I'll be making some money and puting out quality parts, which in the end, is all I want to do as a vendor. If they don't sell at all, then I'm not worried. I've got dozens of other products for SQs and other cars that do sell real well, so I won't be going without dinner anytime soon. Maybe I'll go eat some burgers.... Edited April 11, 2012 by Burton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) Don't like it, and don't think it adds anything to the looks or performance of our cars. After all, we are members of Starquestclub.com that own Conquests and Starions, Most with 4 cylinder Turbocharged engines that don't do 200 mph in the straights. After all, we are not NASCAR, ALMS or Daytona prototype cars. Looks tacky, it almost looks like you are on the fringes of creating the same thing the "Ricer car" owners do with their Huge rear wings and ground effects that don't accomplish anything except to make the car look faster than it really is. Burton, Before you start slamming me for my comments. You posted a new product. So, if some members don't like it, it is their privilege to say they don't like it and it is not up to you to say that you don't want any negative comments towards your post. After all, you posted something for sale in a public forum and asked opinions about it Just my opinion,Bill Edited April 11, 2012 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) Don't like it, and don't think it adds anything to the looks or performance of our cars. After all, we are members of Starquestclub.com that own Conquests and Starions, Most with 4 cylinder Turbocharged engines that don't do 200 mph in the straights. After all, we are not NASCAR, ALMS or Daytona prototype cars. Looks tacky, it almost looks like you are on the fringes of creating the same thing the "Ricer car" owners do with their Huge rear wings and ground effects that don't accomplish anything except to make the car look faster than it really is. Burton, Before you start slamming me for my comments. You posted a new product. So, if some members don't like it, it is their privilege to say they don't like it and it is not up to you to say that you don't want any negative comments towards your post. After all, you posted something for sale in a public forum Just my opinion,Bill It's all good. You (or anyone else) can say whatever they want about it. Negative comments in a thread like this don't help establish the part interest, they just show everyone's entitled to their opinion. You think it looks tacky, but apparently that's not the opinion of everyone, otherwise this thread would be filled with nothing but comments like yours, instead of yours being the only one. Don't like it? Don't buy it. I don't make these parts for the people who don't like them, I make them for the people who do. And there are plenty of people who want my products- I wouldn't bring them to market if there wasn't. I may not ever sell one to you, but I can be sure that people will want them. Again, if there's a part that people want and it's easy for me to bring to market and can be a profitable part, I'm gonna bring it. Why wouldn't I? If enough people wanted big decals of Obama on their hood, I'd make em. I hate the guy and think something like that would look awful on a car, but if people want it and there's decent money to be made, I'd make it. Want your dog painted to look like a skunk? Get him to sit still long enough and make it worth my time, and I'll do it. It's simple economics. If there's a demand for something, someone will be there to act on it. Edited April 11, 2012 by Burton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_StarionTSI Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Don't like it, and don't think it adds anything to the looks or performance of our cars. After all, we are members of Starquestclub.com that own Conquests and Starions, Most with 4 cylinder Turbocharged engines that don't do 200 mph in the straights. After all, we are not NASCAR, ALMS or Daytona prototype cars. Looks tacky, it almost looks like you are on the fringes of creating the same thing the "Ricer car" owners do with their Huge rear wings and ground effects that don't accomplish anything except to make the car look faster than it really is. Burton, Before you start slamming me for my comments. You posted a new product. So, if some members don't like it, it is their privilege to say they don't like it and it is not up to you to say that you don't want any negative comments towards your post. After all, you posted something for sale in a public forum and asked opinions about it Just my opinion,Bill I'd like to point out that the splitter functionality comment is false. Do some research please http://www.aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=174 "This high pressure (and lower speed) air, when compared to the air speed above the car, will create situation where there is increased lift over the entire car. Typically, most production street cars, when traveling at higher speeds (60mph+) produce large amounts of positive lift." http://aprperformance.com/images/stories/article_images/splitter_450_07.jpg You dont need to go such extreme speeds to make it function. Its all in aerodynamics. Now, is it going to be as functional as people who have access too wind tunnels and are specialist? Maybe not, but will it function? Most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 It will function, but I think Bill's point is the function isn't needed, and would tend to lesson gas mileage with more downforce for no appearant reason. Let's face it, this is for the look it adds with few of us actually gaining a function that we don't already have or need. Still, I noticed a lot of us are more into looks than functionality, so there is a market for it. Most of us would like both looks and functionality to a point. There is a point where added pieces on the car start to make it look too busy and a bit ricey, but that is up to the beholder I guess. So many of our cars are different with their own personality already, that I doubt any of us wll truly know what adding the splitter will do for our look until after we drill the holes and mount it to find out. We could vice grip it on and if we don't like it, put it back up for sale. So many of our cars are sitting at a different height with different wheel and tire combos. All of which will tend to augment or work against the look of the splitter depending on the combo. If you have an '83 or custom hood, or hatch wing, mud flaps, etc.., it could look better or worse with the splitter too. Mitusbishi got it right with the OEM look. Spring heights, tire comobs, etc.. A lot of us think the lowered look is better yet, but I only lower for the functionality of a lower center of gravity which increases handling and performance, and mileage in itself, and the fact that all lowering springs are stiffer too. I'm not caught up in the looks that add mega cost at this stage in my life. Not that this is very expensive. It seems to be quite reasonably priced. I have a family now, and things that are more important, but that doesn't mean everyone should approach like me either. I love to see perfect looking Quests like Sotty's at Mesquite last year and others too. I just don't have the time or money for it myself. I have several cars that I could sell to make one perfect, but I'm content to drive them the way they are with small improvements for looks if and when I can do it. I guess my question if I did want one is what is the difference in looks between the one and two piece options. Functionality difference? Are you going to offer the little corner diffusers like on the Hyundai race car in Forza 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Well, I'm not going to get into a debate about form over function, but the main reason I'm making these is for looks. Since most people only want the look, and don't like spending a lot of money, I want to concentrate on the 2 piece part that may or may not add performance, and be more cost effective. The bigger, more solid 1 piece design should add performance, but I will not be spending thousands of dollars doing wind tunnel testing to prove that it does. If I offer both styles, then the choice of form over function can be left up to the customer. All that being said, the ABS came in, and I will be starting in on making these today and hope to have 2 88/89 airdam units ready to sell early in the week. I am also making a faltty splitter for a member which will be done this week. I just have a loose flatty airdam I'm going off of, so I want to make sure it actually fits properly on an airdam mounted on a car before I give my blessing to sell more of them. I'll send the one I'm making to him and if it fits good, then we're golden, but if not, then I will have to make whatever changes, make another set, and test fit that. Once there's a good fit, then they will be on the market. The 86/87 style airdam design is what I'm going to work on next, so hopefully I'll have that style ready to go in a couple weeks. In the end people can debate the form over function, or can be haters on how they look. But, the fact remains that there are people who like the look and people who want to buy them. If there weren't, then motocam wouldn't have sold 6 in less than a week, and I wouldn't have any interest in the ones I'm making. I suppose there is something to be said about some people thinking too much stuff on a car gets clunky or cluttered, but it can go the other way. I've got so much ricer stuff on my car that I'm running out of room to come up with new stuff to slap on there and wish I had more. Some people may think it makes my car look bad, but I love the way my car looks and since I'm the one who owns my car, and I get plenty of compliments on it, I wouldn't have it any other way. So, you guys out there thinking about these splitters, don't listen to the haters, or even me. Listen to yourself and make YOUR car the way YOU want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DryBear Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Aside from aerodynamics and looks, would the front splitter help protect the airdam, or make it more prone to damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 It will make it more prone to scraping/damage, it sticks out further and decreases your angle of approach. BTW, I lowered my car for lower center of gravity and aerodynamic stability at high speeds... FTW. Yes, I am at those speeds often... LOL. Factory spec is rally height, and hard cornering on the softer springs produces way too much body roll. -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted April 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) It will make it more prone to scraping/damage, it sticks out further and decreases your angle of approach. -Robert I disagree. Yes it will stick out further and decrease your angle of approach, but the splitter will take the impact and not the airdam. Plus, with the splitter being bolted to the whole bottom edge of the airdam, it actually acts as extra support of the airdam. The 1/4" ABS is much stronger than the thin urethane of the airdam, so if anything the splitter will be the first to hit anythinmg and be able to protect the airdam by taking most of the impact. The splitter I had on my old car (pic of the black car) stuck out WAY far, and I scraped that splitter a bunch of times on parking blocks, entrances to parking lots, etc, and after many months the airdam was in perfect shape, but the bottom of the splitter on the front edge and corners was scraped to hell. You couldn't see it because it was on the underside of the splitter, and it didn't damage the splitter other than the cosmetic scrapes on the underside, similar to what can be seen on the bottom edge of many airdams that have gone thru all that scraping without having a splitter to take the damage. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd rather gradually sand down a splitter that is replaceable for $100, than gradually sand down the front edge of an airdam that's about $400 new- if you can even find one. Now, if you plow into a curb at 40, then it probably won't help much, but during all the lower speed hits and scrapes the splitter will help more than it will hurt. Edited April 16, 2012 by Burton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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