Killtodie Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Cant find a good source online, wondering if anyone here can clear things up. I know that the CRV is based on the Element, both have four wheel drive but I believe they are primarily front wheel drive with the rear wheels engaging only when the fronts are slipping.The Element for example, you can hear the rear diff kick on and it makes a fairly noticeable grinding noise. Not sure if this is normal but the owner said it was.My other friend who has a 3rd gen CRV has a similar noise coming from the rear but only recently and only when going from lock to lock on the steering wheel. Sounds like the rear diff is engaging for some reason, this didnt happen before. So, anyone knows much about these systems? As far as I do, they are kinda lame and the rear wheels only engage when the front start slipping, like in snow or sand. Unlike Honda's Super Handling All Wheel Drive, this is crap compared to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natedog_37 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Correct almost all front wheel unlike the Pilot or SHAWd acuras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strang3majik Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yep...Ridgeline is the same way. The first year or two of the ridgeline got horrible gas mileage as well because the AWD system was over active and was coming on during normal driving maneuvers. Probably a similar issue with that vehicle. And...its a cool setup swapped into another Honda though. Makes a Honda somewhat cool....lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 If its not AWD all the time, its not designed to last. Audi and Subaru are the only ones I can think of. Might be cause those are the ones I've had other than Mitsubishi products. I've got a Colt station wagon and its 4wd full time but I've got a Colt Vista that's 4wd only if I engage it from a button on the end of the shifter knob. The engagement system is vacuum operated and overly complicated. I've seen the same transmission where you have to use a wrench and turn a lever basically summer/winter so you don't have the rwd portion working year round. I had a Navigator that used that auto engage like you are talking about, it would slam and clank the gears and when I'd hear that I'd just cross my fingers and hope it lasted until I unloaded that POS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchi934 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 AWD DSMs were this way too. Only when you "need" it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTTOY Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 If it were mine i would service the rear diff first.Most awd hondas have special rear diff grease sometimes call dual pump fluid.I have heard some of these make noise on sharp turns that was cured by servicing.Hope this helps Have a nice day,Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbrad511 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/honda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turborusty Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 My Durango is also full time AWD and it seems to be holding up just fine. It may not be widely known for being AWD but it is...and it's ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME. Nearly 200k miles on it now and I drive it like I stole it....4-wheel burnouts and all. Turborusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threedoor Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 AWD DSMs were this way too. Only when you "need" it Nope. Full time AWD with limited slip center differential and rear differential, front was an open differential. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig87 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I have quieted many of these down with fresh dual pump fluid folowed by some figure 8's in the gravel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threedoor Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have quieted many of these down with fresh dual pump fluid folowed by some figure 8's in the gravel Second part of the repair sounds like fun Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotStock88 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 have you tried just calling the dealer? sometimes the internet is the "best" place to look for information like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunStreaker Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 The Volvo S60R was terrible because of this. It had AWD that would kick on in the rear when needed, and due to the fact that it was a higher horsepower model the diff would kick on and off and they went out all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchi934 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Nope. Full time AWD with limited slip center differential and rear differential, front was an open differential. Keith I was under the impression that the center differential was viscous. (yes i know thats limited slip) but that also means that the rear wheels wont get power unless the front wheels spin, making the fluid lock up the differential... is this wrong? Edited March 22, 2012 by Frenchi934 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threedoor Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I was under the impression that the center differential was viscous. (yes i know thats limited slip) but that also means that the rear wheels wont get power unless the front wheels spin, making the fluid lock up the differential... is this wrong? With a simple open rear differential you don't call it a "drivers side drive" or "passenger side drive"... unless one of the tires starts to spin they both get equal portions of the engines torque. A limited slip unit provides a locking action under these conditions to prevent the wheel with less traction from spinning out of control and robbing torque from the wheel with grip. In an AWD DSM the center diff is a 50/50 split just like the rear differential, and if one end of the car loses traction the viscose coupling provides a locking action. If it didn't have the viscose coupling, it would act just like an open rear differential, normally providing equal torque to both front and rear. The only systems that have other than a 50/50 torque split are old school systems using a planetary gearset rather than a simple differential to set a ratio other than 50/50 from the factory and then control lockup with either a viscous coupler or hydraulically actuated clutch pack... these are used in some Subaru's, others have a simple 50/50 split. The crappy systems use either an active center differential that is normally left un-coupled so the rear wheels just free wheel with no power applied and then when the front tires spin faster than the rear tires (wheel speed sensors are involved) it couples the active center differential to send power to the rear tires. Even crappier than that is a system using a "loose" viscous coupling without even using a differential... just a direct coupling via the VC that stays "mostly open" unless there is a large difference in speed between the front and rear tires. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strang3majik Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 My Jeep is like that ^^^ with the viscous coupling. Its only rear wheel drive less they start spinning then the front wheels kick in. But, I can brake stand it and it'll do a rwd burnout...lol But...they are known for going bad, and mine is...it goes full 50/50 lock front and rear and chirps the tires going around turns and such...so...I took the front driveshaft out for now...problem bandaided. I'm swapping to a 242 tc though, they don't have the VC setup...I think its planetary or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killtodie Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I'm wondering about the noise it makes. Loud grinding. Any info on this gear servicing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threedoor Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 My Jeep is like that ^^^ with the viscous coupling. Its only rear wheel drive less they start spinning then the front wheels kick in. But, I can brake stand it and it'll do a rwd burnout...lol But...they are known for going bad, and mine is...it goes full 50/50 lock front and rear and chirps the tires going around turns and such...so...I took the front driveshaft out for now...problem bandaided. I'm swapping to a 242 tc though, they don't have the VC setup...I think its planetary or something? Do you have a 93 to 98 ZJ Grand Cherokee with the 249 TC? Ummm, the brake stand is probably why your VC crapped out (unless it has over 150K miles that is) over heating the fluid in the VC causes it to brake down, and who knows what other damage doing a brake stand does? The 249 TC sounds like it operates identical to the DSM setup (open differential with VC as a locking unit) the 242 operates just like the 249 but without the VC. With the 242 you can do brake stands without ruining anything Later, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strang3majik Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Do you have a 93 to 98 ZJ Grand Cherokee with the 249 TC? Ummm, the brake stand is probably why your VC crapped out (unless it has over 150K miles that is) over heating the fluid in the VC causes it to brake down, and who knows what other damage doing a brake stand does? The 249 TC sounds like it operates identical to the DSM setup (open differential with VC as a locking unit) the 242 operates just like the 249 but without the VC. With the 242 you can do brake stands without ruining anything Later, Keith Its been bad since I got the Jeep...lol I just don't care anymore, so...whatever...haha. But, guys who track with the 249, the rear wheels spin, then the front wheel locks (its open in the front). But, its normal to be able to do that...even if you run up the converter and launch it, it will spin before it locks 4wd. Both of mine did it, and the other one was just fine. But...it feels like I have a locker going around corners :/ Pulled front driveshaft out...RWD fun, no more groaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threedoor Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Its been bad since I got the Jeep...lol I just don't care anymore, so...whatever...haha. But, guys who track with the 249, the rear wheels spin, then the front wheel locks (its open in the front). But, its normal to be able to do that...even if you run up the converter and launch it, it will spin before it locks 4wd. Both of mine did it, and the other one was just fine. But...it feels like I have a locker going around corners :/ Pulled front driveshaft out...RWD fun, no more groaning Shoot, if it was bad when you purchased then no harm / no foul on the brake stand Pretty much any open differential (rear or center) with a VC will act this way. In a RWD car with a VC (older miata for example) if you had one wheel on ice and the other on pavement the tire on ice would spin first, and then the VC would start locking up and transfer power to the other tire... that is how the DSM center diff acts... on a drag launch the front wheels spin a little bit due to weight being shifted back... the back has good traction from the weight transfer and the front have very little traction also due to the weight transfer to the back.... If the rear wheels on the jeep spin first before any power is sent to the front, the jeep system sounds really weird... I guess it can't be using an open diff with VC like I originally thought. Would it be considered more of a part time system? Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turborusty Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Majik....go for a 244 Turborusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strang3majik Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 wth is that? I know the 231, 242, and 249....I want the 242 for 2wd, 4hi/lo full/part I might end up settling for the 231 though...just 2wd, 4hi/lo part-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turborusty Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 My 244 is full time AWD all the time. Turborusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbrad511 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I did a little reading on this, basically because my mom's got an 04 CRV. Turns out there was an issue with the fluid they used in the rear differentials on these. The fix is to replace the fluid ONLY with Honda's replacement. They call it Dual Pump Fluid II. It's the upgrade from the original. They say you MAY have to change it, then find a parking lot and turn left and right tight circles for several minutes to burnish the clutches, then change the fluid again. My mom's isn't making any noises, but I'm going to change the fluid, just to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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