Gas mileage Americans are getting hosed

[Chad]

I was just a kid when the late 70's gas crunch and ubsequent hike in prices happened, and even then I remember it well to this day. If we "forget", who's fault is that? A lot of new compact cars evolved out of that era, and yet we continued to buy gas guzzlers all the way through.

 

Even if this current "gas problem" goes away, I won't forget it next time I buy a car. Even 10 years from now if gas is $1 a gallon, I won't forget. Problem is, most will, and will buy those hummers that only get 8 MPG.

[Technology]

Electric vehicles. We need battery technology.

[Starquest86]

People keep buying gas gusslers so the auto industry keeps making them.. Do you think that if no one bought suburbans that they would continue making them?? Look at the hummer...

[DJpowerHaus]

Ride a bike / bus. Live closer to work. End of discussion.

[Chad]

Indeed. I get a free company truck and free gas, so my current situation doesn't cause problems for me. My wife drives a hybrid, so we are already taking a step in the right direction there. We both live less than 3 miles from where we work, and I won't concider living any further than that (long drive times suck too).

 

If I had to pay for my commutes and gas hit $10, i'd look at alternatives too. I won't be a victom, I'll do something about it. I do have a 98 Tahoe that gets ~15 MPG, and we only use it for hauling heavy laods or using my heavy trailer. In those cases, a more efficent alternative isn't practicale, and with only 1000-1200 miles a year on it, it doesn't make much of a case for getting a more expensive diesel. It's just the cost of moving heavy loads.

 

Don't blame the "man" or the "industry", be an advocate for your own household and make changes, fight back. If you don't like the choices you have? blame your neighbors that keep buying Hummers and trucks wtih 400 + HP and get 11 MPG. I can haul a 6000# load just fine with 240 HP and 15 MPG. People are buing those 4200 pound cars cause they have lots of luxury and a smooth ride with 350 HP, the fact that they get 25 MPG when they coudl get 35 is a choice of the consumer.

[Cloud81918]

The numbers are based off of the EPA cycle test. It does a poor job on the latest Eco-cars and if you modify it for them, it messes up the pretty accurate numbers you get for gas only cars.

 

As for chipping a car and finding MPG. Yep you can. But the companies want "foolproof" cars. A tune that works in LA in the Summer may not be good in Durango Colorado in Winter, or the other way around. Tight tunes normally end up not working well in some given environment. Such a situation can be ugly and cause bad press that can follow a company for years. Detuning a car helps making it a bit more hardy.

 

MPG issue can also be related to safety, emission and cars size. People want bigger cars and the government demands safer/cleaner cars. A 94 escort may be as efficient as any new small car out there, but it is also dirtier, smaller, slower and more dangerous. The current Focus is cleaner, roomier, make more power, is nice inside quieter and will survive a crash better.

 

Today's cars are great. Yeah, the MPG thing is annoying, but they are working on making that better.

[Starquest86]

My Piece of Turd Honda Civic gets 38 mpg and im not complaining..

[RF600]

The government says we need to be more fuel efficient. So most drive more efficient vehicles. The oil companies don't make as much money. Gas prices go up. Whether we are driving more fuel efficient vehicles or not. The companies will get their money. From us or whom ever we ship our oil to.

 

The US will never be free of foreign oil. Well that is until we use it all up. Then who is in control then? I know someone already mentioned this.

[lmwii]

thank you chad, starquest86, and cloud for the common sense and logic. you do realize they have no place here, right?

[Cloud81918]

For the record my office's 2011 Ford Fusion 4 cylinder gets 33mpg on the interstate. That is 1MPG shy of the OP's 94 Escort. My jobs 2011 Focus get 36MPG. Both are bigger and quieter than the Escort. The Fusion is amazingly refined.

[Chad]

here are some telling stats,

Honda fit sales:

 

http://www.goodcarba...es-figures.html

 

Honda Accord sales:

 

http://www.goodcarba...es-figures.html

 

the Fit beats the accord by 10 MPG, is almost half the price, and the accord outsells the fit almost a hundered to one. We have cheap efficent cars, we just won't buy them. The same is true of many other auto lines from different makers. a hundered to one, you think honda doesn't see that? Ofcourse they don't sell the more economical cars, we won't buy them.

 

the Civic is a closer match to the accord in trim and luxury [and price], and also beats the accord eaisly in MPG, and the accord out sell the civic too.

[ucw458]

Chad where are you getting your mpg stats from? The civic is there most fuel efficient car.

 

Taken from hondas website, hwy mileage

 

Accord

coupe - 32

sedan -34

 

fit- 35

 

Civic

base-39

SI - 31

hybrid- 44

HF ? - 41

natural gas powered -38

[Chad]

yep, the civic beats the accord and the accord sells better. that's what I said. People have efficent cars here, they just don't buy them [as much].

[ucw458]

The part that I have problems with is people who haven't done their research will move towards the fit because it's the smallest and must be the most efficient. At least most people seem to think that way.

 

kia does the same thing. They push the soul in their ads but the rio is way more efficient.

[Guest]

The part that I have problems with is people who haven't done their research will move towards the fit because it's the smallest and must be the most efficient. At least most people seem to think that way.

 

kia does the same thing. They push the soul in their ads but the rio is way more efficient.

 

The Rio is a turd that drops valve seats, just like the Escorts and Focus and Dodge Hemi junks. But yes, it's hella gas efficient.

 

The problem with most Americans is that we want the top of the line blah blah, specially in cars. Remember the Suzuki Swift or Geo Metro, insane gas mileage, but they ugly as heck and look like an oversize kids toy. Nobody wants to be seen in a Geo Metro hatch.

[Metric-man]

Ride a bike / bus. Live closer to work. End of discussion.

Until you ride your bike or take the bus to the grocery store and the prices for the food you put on the table has increased the same way fuel has increased because the trucks that bring the food to the market run on diesel.

You can't very well tell your stomach to ride the bus it already lives closer to work...

People keep buying gas gusslers so the auto industry keeps making them.. Do you think that if no one bought suburbans that they would continue making them?? Look at the hummer...

The HUMMER is out of production and all the GM SUV's are either hybirds or cut down images of their former selves.

 

The whole point is if there weren't high fuel prices and the economy wasn't tanked who would care what the gas mileage of your car was ?

[Starquest86]

I believe the problem is that if its out of sight its out of mind. Maybe people should be concerned about this.. Kinda like Global Warming everyone thought gore was blowing smoke but now people see its real and are trying to be all green. Its our human conditioning that makes us only care when its too late.

[Threedoor]

We all hate high gas prices. We also hear the government saying car manufacturers are required to make their cars more fuel efficient. But that's a load of BS. Half the small to midsize new cars we can buy today get worse MPG than my wife's 1994 ford escort. So after 18 years of government saying cars must be more efficient not much has changed. Sure we have some more efficient cars but not many.

 

The Toyota prius has been awarded the most efficient car in the US for a number of years. It gets around 45 MPG. Which is just a hair more than a twin turbo diesel Jaguar xj6 tdvi gets. But we can't have those here, no but Europe gets them. Over there you can buy a 70+ mpg car that isn't a hybrid. But we can't get them here. I've been looking at new cars with the thought of getting my wife something but why. Her car gets the same if not better mpg than the cars I've looked at. It's cheaper to repair, cheaper to register, cheaper to insure, similar if not better mpg and it's paid for. I would get her a new 60+ mpg car if it didn't cost 30k+ or was the size of a shoebox. I think the oil and car industry just wants to keep up buying inefficient cars and lots more fuel to run them.

 

 

 

Not only that but alot of cool cars we can't get here. All the new hot hatches and other affordable cool cars simply aren't sold here. I think as americans we are getting the short end of the stick.

 

 

 

What are your thoughts?

The National Maximum Speed Law (the dreaded double nickel) was repealed in 1995... fuel economy standards were based on cars never exceeding this speed. They used to use the "city cycle" with a max speed of 21 mph and leisurely acceleration rates and "highway cycle" with a max speed of 56 mph and the same leisurely acceleration rates. Now they have added three more cycles to more closely match up with reality with the high speed cycle with 80 mph top speed, heavier acceleration, combined city and highway driving, a cold weather cycle that is the same as city cycle, but very cold temperatures, and the AC cycle, sort of a blend of the old city and highway driving cycle with 95 deg ambient temperature and AC running full blast.

 

For example, when your wife's Ford Escort was produced it received a 23 city, 30 highway, 26 combined milage rating. The same car today would receive a 21 city, 27 highway, 23 combined milage rating. Take a look: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=10889

 

Also, your wife's escort has a whopping 120 HP. American's don't want a car with 120 HP, they want a "hot hatch" A typical hot hatch doesn't actually get all that good of fuel economy. And before you start quoting milage figures from BBC's Top Gear keep in mind they use "imperial gallons" not US gallons each imperial gallon contains 1.2 US gallons so a car reported to get 35 mpg in Great Britton only gets 29 mpg when using US gallons. On top of new cars generally having higher HP than in the past, they also have a crap load of extra weight from required safety equipment, AND from optional electronics, sound insulation, and other crap.

 

Related topic:

 

Never trade in a car to save money by getting better MPG!!! If you are already wanting to trade in for other reasons, go ahead and consider the MPG rating... but don't trade in just to save money!

 

Cost of ownership study:

 

If you have a paid off gas guzzling gasoline powered vehicle getting a horrible 15 mpg in daily real world driving and fuel costs $5.00 a gallon and you drive the average 15,000 miles a year your cost of ownership per year is as follows:

 

Vehicle payment. $0.00

Fuel payment. $ 5,000.00

total $5,000.00

 

Say you trade it in on a chevy Volt and fully half of your driving is within the 40 mile round trip radius on battery power alone so your total gasoline driving is only 7,500 miles per year. Even with government rebates and a good trade in you will have a $500 a month car payment. When running on the gasoline engine the volt gets 37 mpg combined city and highway. If we totally throw out the cost of the electricity to run the volt on short trips we get the following cost of ownership per year:

 

Vehicle payment $6,000

Fuel payment $1013.51

total $7013.51

 

That is a net loss of 2013.51 per year until vehicle is paid off x 5 years for a total of $10,068. After that first 5 years you are now saving almost $4,000 a year, so after 7 and a half years of ownership you finally break even!

 

This doesn't take into account higher insurance costs and (in some states) higher registration fees on a new car.

 

Later,

 

Keith

[Threedoor]

 

No what I meant was, we're not the only ones that a being (hosed) controlled since our prices are relatively cheaper than Europe.

 

 

 

But making us pay higher fuel prices just because other countries are bidding higher in a imbalance of economies

is like a knife in our backs when our economy is tanked as it is,

Getty, Texaco and Chevron are not the United States of America

so they'll just buy us out like cheap stock and make us into a profit,

because oil reserves are speculations that are used to control the prices.

(I have relatives that have been in the oil industry also)

You'll probably see it in a week or so, then check the prices in the grocery stores and see what I mean.

 

Man, I wish there was some way you could buy stock in oil companies... then you would have a say is how they do business and would be entitled to a portion of the profits from refining and selling petroleum. Too bad we don't live in a capitalist country where you could buy stock.... Since it is illegal for you to purchase stocks in this country, I guess complaining and wanting the government (who makes huge profits via taxes on fuel sales... much more than petrochemical companies) to intervene on your behalf is the smart thing to do... If we lived in a capitalist country purchasing stock in oil companies would be the smart road to go down... too bad we can't.

 

Keith

[ucw458]

Also, your wife's escort has a whopping 120 HP.

 

 

I wish. The GT has 130, the LX has 88. My wife has the LX. It's not slow at that hp oddly. Zippy enough for me to not be dissapointed every time I drive it. But it's not fast. The GT version was pretty quick though.

[Guest]

 

 

I wish. The GT has 130, the LX has 88. My wife has the LX. It's not slow at that hp oddly. Zippy enough for me to not be dissapointed every time I drive it. But it's not fast. The GT version was pretty quick though.

 

Somehow, Escort and quick don't seem to belong in the same sentence. Just like StarQuest and reliable!

[ucw458]

 

Somehow, Escort and quick don't seem to belong in the same sentence. Just like StarQuest and reliable!

 

 

When I say quick I mean fast enough so when you drive it you're not annoyed and screaming comon move you piece of ....

[Threedoor]

 

 

I wish. The GT has 130, the LX has 88. My wife has the LX. It's not slow at that hp oddly. Zippy enough for me to not be dissapointed every time I drive it. But it's not fast. The GT version was pretty quick though.

 

Those low HP cars are often geared like an 1/8 mile dragster... if you don't have lots of torque the answer is torque multiplication! You will be at the top of 3rd by 60 mph but that gearing makes it fell "peppy" Then of course there is a huge ratio gap between 4th and 5th on most of them to give a massively over driven top gear for fuel economy. Is that how it is with the Escort?

 

 

Keith

Edited March 22, 2012 by Threedoor

[ucw458]

 

Those low HP cars are often geared like an 1/8 mile dragster... if you don't have lots of torque the answer is torque multiplication! You will be at the top of 3rd by 60 mph but that gearing makes it fell "peppy" Then of course there is a huge ratio gap between 4th and 5th on most of them to give a massively over driven top gear for fuel economy. Is that how it is with the Escort?

 

 

Keith

 

 

Not sure about the actual ratios but 2nd tops out around 50-55 mph. That's at 6k rpm. All the gears seem pretty even. 3rd tops out around 70-80. But 4-5 are cruising, 5th for flat ground cruising. Often on decent inclines you need to stay in 3rd. Not a bad car just a commuter car. But if you take a few junkyard parts from a late 90s car you can increase the HP to 110 or 130. Changing pistons nets the higher HP #. The difference between 9.2 compression and 9.6

[Fanta]

 

Somehow, Escort and quick don't seem to belong in the same sentence. Just like StarQuest and reliable!

 

You obviously never played Need For Speed: Underground.