Gauging interest. Upper Radiator pipe

[Gamble88]

Was just playing around with what I had in the garage. All I have left is straight pipes so I can do pie cuts or order the correct bends. This is just an idea of what it will look like and by no means is the final product. Just a pic to give you an idea.

 

This will be aluminum 1.5" upper radiator pipe. Couplers you will be on your own for or I can order them but you will be paying what I pay for them which is the same as you pay. I don't have any dealer license or get any hook up on parts.

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f110/pportuese/0a522ffc.jpg

 

Still haven't decided what type of bends I want to do on this yet. Still up in the air.

 

Who would be interested?

Pricing would be around $50(ish) can't say for sure until I order materials. Also I have a contact who does powder coating so if this is something of interest I'm sure he could do a discount (my guess is 20-30 each)

Edited February 17, 2012 by Gamble88

[RonnieJ]

My buddy does that on the Evo and other cars he works on. Great idea. Would def be into that or AN fittings

[Indiana]

The engine has to be able to move and putting in a tube and placing all the stress on two small hoses isn't a good idea.

[Gamble88]

My buddy does that on the Evo and other cars he works on. Great idea. Would def be into that or AN fittings

 

AN fittings are nice, but good luck putting them on the stock radiator

And 16AN fittings are EXPENSIVE.

 

 

The engine has to be able to move and putting in a tube and placing all the stress on two small hoses isn't a good idea.

 

Says who? I had a upper/lower water pipe like these on my dsm that made 452awhp on a mustang dyno and 366tq. Never ever had a problem.

 

When the engine moves it puts stress on motor mounts. It's not like radiator hoses have to support the engine.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Gamble88

[slydogg]

i agree with indy, it would look good but i can see leaks.

[TexasQuest]

I'd love to see one made out of molded clear plastic like some cars I've seen. Maybe do different clear colors too.

[Dred_85.5_TSI]

poly engine mounts will take care of most of the movement. if your engine is flopping around so much that you need the full rubber hose to allow that much flex you have other problems.

[Gamble88]

I'd love to see one made out of molded clear plastic like some cars I've seen. Maybe do different clear colors too.

There is a company that makes those, I looked into it a few years ago, but they are NOT cheap.

 

poly engine mounts will take care of most of the movement. if your engine is flopping around so much that you need the full rubber hose to allow that much flex you have other problems.

 

Agreed, Thank you.

[89PalermoSHP]

Im going to agree with Indy. The notion you need poly mounts to run this pipe is a bit of a stretch too.

 

Another bit of advise.... Weve seen good ideas come and go and some go not so well. Before starting out with a "for sale" post you should have a product already made and tested. If you think your going to use other peoples money to buy your materials and then be patient while you figure out the design your going to end up with a lot of disappointed people and a bad reputation. Im not trying to kill your spirit for making a contribution to the community but weve seen it all before and 99% of situations like this end up in hard feelings. Be patient and come up with a quality product and the business will follow.

 

Here is an example of another newer member in a similiar situation. He is hearing the same stuff and taking the advise well and moving forward the proper way.

 

http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=127038

[Ron Burgandy]

good idea man. if 1000hp supras run them the should be ok for our 200-400 hp cars.

[RonnieJ]

Thats funny those are getting started on today

[Gamble88]

Im going to agree with Indy. The notion you need poly mounts to run this pipe is a bit of a stretch too.

 

Another bit of advise.... Weve seen good ideas come and go and some go not so well. Before starting out with a "for sale" post you should have a product already made and tested. If you think your going to use other peoples money to buy your materials and then be patient while you figure out the design your going to end up with a lot of disappointed people and a bad reputation. Im not trying to kill your spirit for making a contribution to the community but weve seen it all before and 99% of situations like this end up in hard feelings. Be patient and come up with a quality product and the business will follow.

 

Here is an example of another newer member in a similiar situation. He is hearing the same stuff and taking the advise well and moving forward the proper way.

 

http://www.starquest...howtopic=127038

Please don't compare me to other people that you think you know. When/Where did I say I was going to take a deposit and use other peoples money? This is a gauging interest thread and if there is interest as it said in post #1 I will order; If nobody wants it, then i'll just make one for myself then. Geez.

[Metric-man]

Flat pavement will cause little stress like on a track, but even then a small collision might case more damage to the radiator or joining components, besides you need to think about the thermal capacity of aluminum, it would throw the thermostat off being an extention of the housing and it might not open as intended.

On the street if you take a dip or cross the RR crossing too fast could compromise its integrity.

 

If you want to fabricate something useful make a thermo housing with a turbo coolant line and route it for an oring.

Because the stock piece is a weak link being cast and MPI guys would love a short neck one like pre 87

Edited February 17, 2012 by Metric-man

[Gamble88]

Flat pavement will cause little stress like on a track, but even then a small collision might case more damage to the radiator or joining components, besides you need to think about the thermal capacity of aluminum, it would throw the thermostat off being an extention of the housing and it might not open as intended.

On the street if you take a dip or cross the RR crossing too fast could compromise its integrity.

 

If you want to fabricate something useful make a thermo housing with a turbo coolant line and route it for an oring.

Because the stock piece is a weak link being cast and MPI guys would love a short neck one like pre 87

Sorry but sounds like the biggest load of BS I have ever heard. The pipe will not change when the thermostat opens or closes. And why is the stock piece a weak link if it's cast? Cast is really strong.

[vbrad511]

Ever seen an old V8 move in the engine compartment when somebody holds the brake, in gear, and give it a little throttle? Same idea applies here. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, and you'll be doing many of us a favor if you make one for your car first and log a few months of driving time with it. You don't see our little 54's moving that much when you're cracking the throttle under the hood, but that's a no-load rev. The motor does move, the radiator is mounted reasonably solid, there's gotta be some flex somewhere...just like in the exhaust. If there's not a way for things to move you end up ripping manifold studs out of the head (and worse). Don't give up on this. Build yourself a prototype and try it. Keep us updated.

[Gamble88]

I'm not saying it doesn't move, but enough to break it, I don't think so. But yes I will make one and rock it for awhile and report back. I just picked up a new saw today so I have to clean up the garage and set up the saw hopefully get some cleaner cuts than my chop saw. And there is a tube fabrication place down the street I am going to check out and see if they happen to have any of this and will sell at a will call counter or something.

[89PalermoSHP]

Please don't compare me to other people that you think you know. When/Where did I say I was going to take a deposit and use other peoples money? This is a gauging interest thread and if there is interest as it said in post #1 I will order; If nobody wants it, then i'll just make one for myself then. Geez.

 

Why so defensive? All Im suggesting is if you actually had something to sell you might make some sales. All I see is two scraps of pipe goobered together lol.

[Gamble88]

It's just to get people's creative juices flowing. lol

I ran out of bends. I think I have 1 left and I was just playing with scraps. Working on setting up the new saw so I can do some pie cuts. I'm seeing if anyone is interested because if not then I'm going to order enough to do 1 piece for me and if so I'll look for an assortment of pipes. Sorry didn't mean to come off rude, it's a been a long long day.

[Indiana]

This motor is RWD and it does move back and forth when you are driving and its all the time, maybe less in an automatic. Anyone that has seen one on a dyno can tell you that and if you haven't, go watch some videos. A FWD/AWD isn't moving back and forth now is it? There's the secondary function of the hoses in that in the event of a headgasket failure the hose is to burst NOT the radiator, as a member with the screen name Kronus found out the hard way after he blew a headgasket when using reinforced hoses sold at *DM and now copied by that China ricer crap place like most everything else. OEM radiator hoses are made with the reinforcement strands put on their bias so the hose can swell before it fails and it withstands the shock pressure first as a liquid can't be compressed so its as much a safety design as being functional. Not all headgasket failures blow into the cooling system but some do and hoses like that can save what little there is of your coolant from completely blowing out if your radiator bursts Vs you just lost power and some coolant out a failed hose. One cooks your engine and one doesn't, One costs you $5 for a hose and the other costs $1000s, again you could ask Kronus but he is long gone. The radiator tanks on a DSM radiator are fiber board they aren't even brass or aluminum so no, it didn't much matter you did what you are talking about on THAT car as far as it working and they knew that when they decided to use that type material for the core construction to save money. You want someone to put your welded up scraps on their, "I want to clean up the engine bay car", and now it has two more clamps and your weld joints to make it work and you put all that movement on two short hoses and want them to stick it there in the front first thing you see when the hood opens? You'll cause them to break the solder joint off the radiator tank for that upper hose if it doesn't crack the tank first. .

 

and I was being nice

[Indiana]

If you want to make something here's an idea for ya just so you don't think I'm against you trying to make something cause this will work, Nobody has yet did this and its badly needed. You get an inexpensive Ford TPS and you make an adapter to use that on a stock throttlebody. A new stock TPS is obsolete or its 150 or so aftermarket when you can find one and a Ford TPS is a couple dollars people can get everywhere and you'd sell those all day. All you have to make is the adapter. You'll need two parts, one is just a spacer/bolt hole adapter and the other is the connection from the throttleshaft to the sensor. The bolt holes are close on some, like from an Explorer and they too have a pigtail on them but there's no joint connection so they will turn and it can't have any slop in it.

[JohnnyWadd]

Its a cool idea but hard to sell when we got new ones from dad's in ohio and from auto parts stores and *DM and mookeeh make the silicon ones already.

[Metric-man]

Sorry but sounds like the biggest load of BS I have ever heard. The pipe will not change when the thermostat opens or closes. And why is the stock piece a weak link if it's cast? Cast is really strong.

 

I misunderstod are you having those made or your fabricating them yourself?

Or, guess you've already worked out the details, how did it work for you?

How much Hp did you gain?

[Metric-man]

 

...and I was being nice

 

The radiator is attched to the chassis and the engine and the rest of the drive train is attched to the frame but our cars are unibody so we have more chassis flex ,

so a solid upper hose will also act as a engine brace.

 

You could make a strut tower brace that is hollow and fill it with urethane.

Hollow chassis with urethan filler injected into it has been done

by Bellco

http://www.sun-inet....bellco/essh.htm

Many approaches have been developed to reinforce and maintain body strength in a monocoque frame. One area which particularly needs reinforcement is the floor area, in which side sills are used for extra strength. Bellco Power Urethane is a stiff foam urethane product that is injected in fluid form inside the side sill area, resulting in an increase in body strength by over 100%, and greatly contributing to the overall body strength of the vehicle.

 

Benefits of increased body strength 1. Improved handling of the suspension

2. Better traction

3. Reduced phase difference between front and rear tires

4. More stable body position in braking

5. Better touch and control in handling

NOTE: In addition, improved body strength reduces in cabin noise, thereby improving the sound quality on the car audio system.

 

Comparison with other methods of body reinforcement 1. Roll cage (bolt-on)…while this approach does offer improved safety for passengers, it does little to improve body strength.

 

2. Roll cage (welded)…body strength is greatly improved compared to the bolt-on type roll cage, however the welding process

is labor intensive, and this approach typically adds 20kg of body weight to the vehicle.

 

3. Spot welding…body strength is improved somewhat, but the welding operation is labor intensive.

 

4. Riveting…virtually no improvement in body strength.

 

5. Strut tower bar, lower arm bar…depending on the position of attachment and the structure of the parts, this produces spot

improvements in body strength, but the overall effect is greatly improved when combined with Bellco Power Urethane.

 

Tests on Bellco Power Urethane have measured a real increase of 100% in twisting body strength, and in terms of cost performance and operability it proves superior to any of the methods mentioned above. Moreover, it requires no modification in external appearance, and only adds between 5 to 6kg of additional body weight.

 

Bellco Power Urethane comes as a 2-liquid compound mix type, in which fluids A and B are mixed in equal amounts, which produce a chemical reaction when mixed together, resulting in a substance that is extremely lightweight and high-strength. Unit price when sold in Japan:

 

Standard kit (3kg + 3kg): 19,000 yen

With labor charge for operations (based on our company standard): 69,000 yen

 

NOTE The rate of porous formation in the liquid in this product depends on the temperature. Ideally the fluids should be mixed at between 20 to 25 degrees Celsius. When performing the operation warm the side sill so that it is the same temperature as the liquid.

 

Even if the fluid injection and formation process goes wrong for some reason, it will not have a negative effect on the car body strength. However, there is no product available which can dissolve the foam once it is in place inside the side sill.

 

Because Bellco Power Urethane is a petroleum-based product, it does ignite at 320 degrees Celsius.

 

Because of the flammability of the product at this temperature, once it is in place inside the side sill it is no longer possible to carry out any direct welding operations on the side sill portion. In the event of an accident resulting in major damage to this area, the entire side sill will have to be replaced.

 

This product contains ingredients that can be harmful to human health. Therefore the product should never be directly ingested, and when handling the product the proper precautions should be taken to avoid direct contact with the skin and internal membranes of the body, by using safety glasses, a breathing mask, and protective gloves.

 

Avoid exposing the product to direct sunlight, and store it in a well-ventilated cool dark place.