Which is Better - 14B or 14G turbo & exhaust housings

[Starfighterpilot]

I am going to come into some money in the next month or so. In addition to correcting some body work (giving the Old Broad a Face Lift ), I'm interested in reasonably increasing her performance - BUT NOT sacrificing reliability. Bear in mind that I do not do any street racing but rather "High Speed" touring on our USA Interstates - I throughly enjoy blowing off the MA & PA Kettles doing 65 in a 70 MPH speed Zone.

 

So I am tossing about whether or not to upgrade to the 14B or 14G MITSU turbo and what's the best exhaust housing for the maximum punch for the buck.

 

Consider that the 14G turbo was Mitsu's Dealer installed performance up grade in '88/89 - but some Starquesters have recently gone to the 14B turbo.

 

So I'm asking why 14B over 14G - and what type/size of turbo exhaust housing are they using bolted to a OEM Stock G54B "T" exhaust manifold with the turbo/manifold exhaust bore joint/manifold reamed out to the size of the manifold/turbo exhaust housing joint collar OD size?

 

I'll DEFINITELY be using the OEM 3 port turbo actuator with an OEM stock vacuum tubing system and stock exhaust plumbing. I WANT to stay with the OEM stock exhaust plumbing ID size.

 

Considering the type of driving that I do and the 14B/14G & exhaust plenum variable sizes - 6 to 8 CM sizes- which turbo configuration gives me the most "punch for the buck"?

 

Thanks for any enlightenment you can give me for the 14B / 14G based upon ANY past experience you may have.

 

KEN

[snowbird]

Not too much info to offer, but I've had 14b cars before and it's a nasty little turbo, almost no lag, and efficient up to 20-21psi. I have no ideA abot the 14g exhaust side, but I'm sure you can use a 14b co

Pressor and cartridge in a 12a exhaust housing but only if you have the 12a honed out because the 14b exhaust wheel is like 1mm larger, or you can slide a 12a exhaust wheel on the 14b to make it fit but I don't k ow whAt kind of performance loss or gain that would be. The 12a exhaust housing inlet is 8cm compared to the 6cm of the 14b, but looks to be really restrictive. You'd also have to clock the 14b for the outlet, which I thinkposes a custom bracket for the wastegate arm. I have 14b sitting in my garage left over from a talon and I'm wondering how guys bolt up the 14b using the complete 14b and o2 housing. I'm hoping a guru can step In and set the 14b I stall straight and slap me in the face for anything wrong I said.

[carguygibby]

Ken, in my case I have no experience with the 14b although I've heard it's a worthwhile upgrade.

However, I scored a rebuilt 14g and housing (seems it was indeed a dealer install option back in the day) on Ebay over 2 years ago and it has been on my 86 since.

Along with a *DM downpipe and a MBC at 12lbs. boost this makes the little bugger FLY!

Spools up quick, great 3rd/4th gear punch on the highway(Ma & Pa Kettles beware!) and so far 100% reliable and no MPG sacrifice!

Colin

Edited November 27, 2011 by carguygibby

[Fuze]

14B's come in 1G DSM eclipses, 14g's are the Mitsu dealer Starion option. They are very close in size but the 14G has a less restrictive exhaust housing. Comparing them to each other, there's not enough of a difference to make doing all the custom stuff worth it to bolt up a 14B unless you just have one sitting around. They have a different exhaust/02 housing, requiring modifying the downpipe, and the compressor needs the steel eclipse adapter to bolt up the outlet hose.

 

The 14G is a fun little turbo, especially with exhaust mods. It spools like the stocker, pulls better in the midrange and a little more up top, but it's no killer. Most people will get used to it very quickly, but you can crank up the boost until you max it out. (Over 15 psi they don't do much) Your post sounds like you just want a little more so you'd be happy with it. The good thing is with a 14G, it's not so much that it will hurt your car, it only flows about 75CFM more than the stocker.

 

Regardless of which you choose, take a little extra time and port out the exhaust inlet to remove the "ring" indentation, do the same on the exhaust manifold and you'll gain over 2mm in overall diameter in the exhaust intlet to the turbo.

[Mix_67]

I ran a 14b on my conquest and enjoyed it very much. I ran 15psi which spooled well before 3k. I ran the setup for autox and found it to be very responsive.

 

 

I put on an evo3 16g this spring and was actually just looking at selling my 14b. I am willing to sell my 14b comp along with the bored out 12a exhaust side for $350.

 

If your interested shoot me a pm. I just did an inspection of it today and would be willing to walk you through an install.

[movin on]

If you have the time, look at the compressor maps. The 14b has quite a unique one unlike any other turbo I have seen. As for exhaust housing, the 14b is meant to make a little power in the dsm exhaust housing, which is 1/3 smaller than ours, so a bored quest housing would open up the top end a bit more. So definitely stay with a quest exhaust housing and don't be afraid to port the wastegate area a little bit. Edited November 27, 2011 by movin on

[Indiana]

The least expensive way since you want to keep that stock exhaust and actuator would be to get a rebuild kit and have your compressor housing bored out for a little 16G and the face of the cartridge cut for that wheel. Rebuild it yourself and use your old turbine shaft. Might cost you about $150. Send off the bare cartridge and compressor housing to some place that will enlarge it.

[snowbird]

Not to thread jack, but I have a 14b and it sounds like the easiest way to run it is by using the 12a housing once it's honed out to fit the 14b exhaust turbine?

[Indiana]

Not to thread jack, but I have a 14b and it sounds like the easiest way to run it is by using the 12a housing once it's honed out to fit the 14b exhaust turbine?

You could use the cartridge and compressor housing that already has the 14b wheel in it and take the old TD05 shaft out of its cartridge, get a rebuild kit and use that shaft in the other cartridge/housing. Grind a new cutout so the compressor housing dowel will fit into it and drill a new hole in the other side so the pin from the turbine housing fits in it. This way you can remove the turbo and assemble it on a bench if you needed to and put the snap ring back on and not be concerned that it points the wrong way. Do that so at least one hole lines up for the actuator and you can usually bend it so you can point that almost anyway you choose. What you'll need to do now is take the "J" pipe, that's what comes off the DSM compressor housing they attach the intercooler hose to, cut it off its flange and rotate it where it lines up with your intercooler tube and weld it back on to the flange. The wastegate actuator now will have to be modified. You can use a stock actuator or a DSM actuator either way you have to bend it. Put it in a vise and mash the part of the bracket almost flat where it bolted to the housing. You can get one hole to line up then re-bend the arm so when it does push out from the actuator it pushes the flapper open because it will end up coming down at an odd angle and it won't work right. Now you can make a little bent piece of metal that attaches to that other bolt hole and and put a nut/bolt on the other hole in your actuator for stability but one bolt will hold it on. There is no need to start screwing up and ruining housings by attempting to bore them out yourself because face it, you can't. The entire reason a turbo works is the air passing through the turbine blades and not be disturbed by a wavy uneven opening that slows it all down and turns the turbo to crap, same goes for the compressor wheel opening you can't do that at home. Ya it will boost but you did this for an improvement so why did you ruin its flow with a grinder?

Edited November 29, 2011 by Indiana

[snowbird]

You could use the cartridge and compressor housing that already has the 14b wheel in it and take the old TD05 shaft out of its cartridge, get a rebuild kit and use that shaft in the other cartridge/housing. Grind a new cutout so the compressor housing dowel will fit into it and drill a new hole in the other side so the pin from the turbine housing fits in it. This way you can remove the turbo and assemble it on a bench if you needed to and put the snap ring back on and not be concerned that it points the wrong way. Do that so at least one hole lines up for the actuator and you can usually bend it so you can point that almost anyway you choose. What you'll need to do now is take the "J" pipe, that's what comes off the DSM compressor housing they attach the intercooler hose to, cut it off its flange and rotate it where it lines up with your intercooler tube and weld it back on to the flange. The wastegate actuator now will have to be modified. You can use a stock actuator or a DSM actuator either way you have to bend it. Put it in a vise and mash the part of the bracket almost flat where it bolted to the housing. You can get one hole to line up then re-bend the arm so when it does push out from the actuator it pushes the flapper open because it will end up coming down at an odd angle and it won't work right. Now you can make a little bent piece of metal that attaches to that other bolt hole and and put a nut/bolt on the other hole in your actuator for stability but one bolt will hold it on. There is no need to start screwing up and ruining housings by attempting to bore them out yourself because face it, you can't. The entire reason a turbo works is the air passing through the turbine blades and not be disturbed by a wavy uneven opening that slows it all down and turns the turbo to crap, same goes for the compressor wheel opening you can't do that at home. Ya it will boost but you did this for an improvement so why did you ruin its flow with a grinder?

 

Indiana, I wasnt going to attempt to hone it out myself, I was gonna take it all to a speed shop if that was the only option. Just to make it clear, you are saying to put a 12A shaft and exhaust turbine in the 14b cartridge? I thought both turbos would have the same rebuild kit? Sorry for the mix up, I got lost in the first couple sentences of switch this to that, lol, I dont know squat about the 12A.

[Indiana]

 

Indiana, I wasnt going to attempt to hone it out myself, I was gonna take it all to a speed shop if that was the only option. Just to make it clear, you are saying to put a 12A shaft and exhaust turbine in the 14b cartridge? I thought both turbos would have the same rebuild kit? Sorry for the mix up, I got lost in the first couple sentences of switch this to that, lol, I dont know squat about the 12A.

If your stock shaft is good, use it. TD05 and TD05H shafts are the same and those turbine wheels do not come off. The H is a change in the turbine wheel size. Yes TD05 and TD05H use the same rebuild kit. The rebuild kits have one piece that is dependent on the shape of the back side of the compressor wheel, curved ("superback" they call that sometimes) or flat. You can take the nut off the DSM cartridge and slide the Conquest shaft right in and put the nut back on but I'd rebuild it so you can get more use from it. The parts that are worn you can't see and the burnt oil inside the cartridge is the biggest problem and its all back where the rear oil seal seats.

[snowbird]

Ok thanks a lot, the "H" was confusing me, thanks for your patience, I've never rebuilt a turbo, but I've rebuilt many heads, would I qualify to do the turbo you think? Lol

[Indiana]

If you could assemble a snap together model you can rebuild a turbo.

[snowbird]

LoL, thanks for the confidence booster! SORRY STARFIGHTERPILOT, I totally mangled your thread. Edited December 1, 2011 by snowbird

[snowbird]

Puttin my 14b/12a housing together right now, which metal shield do I use? The 14b one or 12a? I'm talking about the one the shaft goes through, almost lime a dust shield? Edited December 23, 2011 by snowbird

[Indiana]

They should be the same. If you didn't know it, the stock turbine housing is the worst design there is. They aim the wastegate flow right squarely into the flow out of the turbine shaft. Can't get any worse than that. Ideally they would never recombine. On most they do it in something they call the 02 housing but that's still a cheap compromise. Some just have an open dump.

[snowbird]

Just to make sure I was talking about the metal disc plate that is contained behind the actual exhaust turbine, but I hear you on the 12a hotside. I'm using my old talon 14b and inject the O2 manifold from my talon too, but no way to really hook it up without going straight custom exhaust. I'm gonna port the housing the best I can and just have a wastegate tube welded on a conquest downpipe that dumps back into it.

[Caliber308]

Ken, Because I'm bias...I suggest this turbo: TDO5H17C. Efficient from 10 to 20 psi boost. This is a excellent street and interstate turbo. Especially, at the 12 to 15 psi boost range. Not too much, not too little.

 

Bill

[Caliber308]

LoL, thanks for the confidence booster! SORRY STARFIGHTERPILOT, I totally mangled your thread.

 

Should we shoot you now or later :lol:

 

Bill