SMB Header

[psu_Crash]

$%#^! .... I was waiting for this thread.

 

I had mine ceramic coated after returning the first one for a new design (as you may know) but I have only ran it 20 minutes until my block gave way.

 

I'll be watching this and be sure to post up my experience with the manifold once I get the car back up and running.

[QuestFan]

I understand everyone jumping on me about making SMB look bad. I really like the guy, he is a good man, and he knows what he is doing when it comes to welding. But no matter how much awesome welding you do to this thing, it just isnt going to hold in the long run.

 

So far it seems that only two people have actually installed and ran their header. And the second person didnt get enough run time out of it to show any results.

 

If you bought an SMB header and you've ran it for at least a month or you have purchased one and you are going to run it soon, report back on here and proove me wrong.

 

The first time it cracked around the wastegate and I contacted SMB about it he said he was familiar with the issue and it was starting to become a problem and that a gusset of some kind will have to be in order.

 

Again, I really didnt like doing this but I am fed up with dealing with this manifold. I havnt said that I want a refund or an exhange. I just want SOMEHTHING to be done.

 

As for not getting a refund or something because someone else welded on it?? Regardless, it had to be welded AGAIN for the same issue. SMB told me to either ship it to him again and he would fix it again or just get it welded locally.

 

We need more people to run these things so we can see the results. After we see more results, then you can tell me I should have coated it and what ever else.

 

I simply started this thread to see who else has purchased one of SMB's manifolds and what kind of results did you get out of it.

 

I am NOT trying to run off SMB. He is a good man with good skills. He just used the wrong materials. The explanation is clear in above post. (Words from the wise)

Edited September 2, 2011 by YoungQuestFan

[QuestFan]

I just texted SMB and informed him of the situation and this thread.

 

I recall SMB suggesting a coating company he knew about that he could get it coated for me while he had it for repair the first time.

 

I told him I dont have the money to have that done.

Edited September 2, 2011 by YoungQuestFan

[StarquestRescue]

I am tempted to ask for a refund. If I would have known all of the information Chad has explained I would have stayed with that treadstone cast manifold. I bought one but immediatly returned it and bought the SMB. I think my next route is try to get a refund for this one and buy another treadstone. I never have good luck with custom made manifolds. If a guy is worried about it cracking, why would you waste the money on it in the first place. Which is what I have come to realize about manifolds.

 

EDIT: I am not trying to make anyone look bad here. Its just like what has been said, the grade of metal just can not withstand the heat and vibrations. I was warned by maxboost87 not to buy an SMB maniflod. So I got Maxboost87 to build me a nice log manifold out of stainless and it lasted a good while anifold because they were mild steel. until I got ran into the ditch which is what I think caused the manifold to crack. So then I bought the SMB even after I was warned not to. You learn from your mistakes.

 

You were warned not to by this, and everyone was warned by chad these would not last. Perhaps others should have spoke up, but no one wants to hear it. Day in and day out noobs are told to "just go mpi," and that you need a header, even for tiny bolt on turbos. That is just flat out bad advice to give a noob with shollow pockets. Yet it is dished out dayly by other noobs as well as people with 10,20,30k posts that should know better. Than to tell noobs that.

 

400,450, 720 has been made with stock maniflods with bigger flanges welded on.

[IntercooledFlatty]

I would see if he can make you another first and also seeing as the crack happened at the waste gate it could have been because of the way you have to wastegate dump route. No one should be all jumpy until we know all of the facts, this isn't like the mookeeh headers where they all cracked, you are the first and it could be an issolated case or operator/installer error.

 

 

Oh and I wouldn't refund you any money seeing as you had someone else weld on it.

 

exactly

[Scotty Dont]

 

exactly

 

 

You like how he ignored my post?

[QuestFan]

 

 

You like how he ignored my post?

 

I didnt ignore your post, I replied about it in another post. I said in that post that even if someone else welded on it, it should not matter. And I explained that SMB told me I could get it welded locally. Maybe you need to read first.

 

Also, I have not said what I am going to do about it yet. I am waiting to see what SMB says.

Edited September 2, 2011 by YoungQuestFan

[Scotty Dont]

I didnt ignore your post, I replied about it in another post. I said in that post that even if someone else welded on it, it should not matter. And I explained that SMB told me I could get it welded locally. Maybe you need to read first. Also, I have not said what I am going to do about it yet. I am waiting to see what SMB says.

 

Comment on the wastegate and how you have it mounted!

[Chad]

The way a wastegate is mounted is dictated by the flange location, which is a part of the deisign of the manifold, decided by the fabricator, it is not user error. It also doesn't explain the new crack on the number 1 runner at the head flange

 

It was fixed the first time under warranty by the origional builder. It quickly failed again in the same location, so authorizaton was given by the origional builder to have it fixed localy, and it was, by a certified welder. It failed again, in the same locaton and in the same way within a week. It now also shows cracks elsewhere. I don't see any user error here. I an told there is a flex secton in the exhaust to limit exhaust pipe loading, so I can't really see anything else that coudl have been done to prevent this from an end-user point. the product simply filed, and is doign so for a particular reason, one that can't be fixed with more welding and gussets, which has already been proven by the use of added weldign an gussets.

 

If this is failing due to excess EGT's then obviosuly the wrong material has been used. That soudl be part of the design. It' is assumed that the manifold will be put to extreme use, so build it with some headroom. It makes no sense to sell a performance product that should be used at or below stock performanc levels/EGT's.

 

If coating is prerequisite, it shoudl come that way. the coating needs to be inside, not outside, and coating the inside of a used manifold is a crap-shoot at best due to surface contaminaton, so it's too late to fix this one.

 

If it needs to be heat cycled, why not cycle that before it's installed in a kiln/oven, that shouldn't be prerquisite for the end user, and if it is, that needs to be clearly explaiend. Heat cycling doesn't make sense from metalurgaly perspectve anyway, not if you actually study the subject. It would take about 1700 F to truly stress relieve it. The metal needs to go into solution state to relive that stress. Problem is, then it woudl be soft as butter and fail from simple metal fatigue due to the alloys used.

 

I hope this finds some happy ending, it just sucks to see and I hate to watch it happen. I had the same feeligns bout the MK manifold, but as stated earlier, many won't listen. I sure as hell don't want to see another vendor get run off. I see a lot of innovation and out-of-the-box thinking in SMB products, so lets try to keep this civil. No lynchings please

 

And yes, I've had product failures too, so I know what it's like to be on the the other end of this situation.

[NotStock88]

The way a wastegate is mounted is dictated by the flange location, which is a part of the deisign of the manifold, decided by the fabricator, it is not user error. It also doesn't explain the new crack on the number 1 runner at the head flange

 

It was fixed the first time under warranty by the origional builder. It quickly failed again in the same location, so authorizaton was given by the origional builder to have it fixed localy, and it was, by a certified welder. It failed again, in the same locaton and in the same way within a week. It now also shows cracks elsewhere. I don't see any user error here. I an told there is a flex secton in the exhaust to limit exhaust pipe loading, so I can't really see anything else that coudl have been done to prevent this from an end-user point. the product simply filed, and is doign so for a particular reason, one that can't be fixed with more welding and gussets, which has already been proven by the use of added weldign an gussets.

 

If this is failing due to excess EGT's then obviosuly the wrong material has been used. That soudl be part of the design. It' is assumed that the manifold will be put to extreme use, so build it with some headroom. It makes no sense to sell a performance product that should be used at or below stock performanc levels/EGT's.

 

If coating is prerequisite, it shoudl come that way. the coating needs to be inside, not outside, and coating the inside of a used manifold is a crap-shoot at best due to surface contaminaton, so it's too late to fix this one.

 

If it needs to be heat cycled, why not cycle that before it's installed in a kiln/oven, that shouldn't be prerquisite for the end user, and if it is, that needs to be clearly explaiend. Heat cycling doesn't make sense from metalurgaly perspectve anyway, not if you actually study the subject. It would take about 1700 F to truly stress relieve it. The metal needs to go into solution state to relive that stress. Problem is, then it woudl be soft as butter and fail from simple metal fatigue due to the alloys used.

 

I hope this finds some happy ending, it just sucks to see and I hate to watch it happen. I had the same feeligns bout the MK manifold, but as stated earlier, many won't listen. I sure as hell don't want to see another vendor get run off. I see a lot of innovation and out-of-the-box thinking in SMB products, so lets try to keep this civil. No lynchings please

 

And yes, I've had product failures too, so I know what it's like to be on the the other end of this situation.

finally chimed in... I was waiting for this.

 

I hope things work out for the best in this situation.

[starquestJOE]

well chad if you sat down and made a manifold to buy, we would not have to take a chance. i tried for to years to get you to make one. never happened. i paid chris and had a manifold 2weeks later. only thing i got from you was i'll let you know

[SOTTY]

Well peeps , off goes yet another vendor and a innovative one at that chased off SQKC , how many is that now ?

[BrazilBoy]

Well peeps , off goes yet another vendor and a innovative one at that chased off SQKC , how many is that now ?

How many? Too many that is... Chris is one of the most talented I have yet scene... We not only lost just a vendor but a resource too... Hope everyone is happy.... This has been issue number one for a long time here, folks are so quick to burn a man down.. If only they were as quick to acknowledge his good works... But thats the hater band wagon most hop on here, without thought or consideration for a fellow quester going above and beyond for their community....

[QuestFan]

How many? Too many that is... Chris is one of the most talented I have yet scene... We not only lost just a vendor but a resource too... Hope everyone is happy.... This has been issue number one for a long time here, folks are so quick to burn a man down.. If only they were as quick to acknowledge his good works... But thats the hater band wagon most hop on here, without thought or consideration for a fellow quester going above and beyond for their community....

 

Hater band wagon? Really dude? You are one to talk. No one said Chris's abilitys suck or what ever you want to throw out there to try and make me look like a bad guy.

 

I spent $300 +++ on something that has failed numerous times and had to be repaired by the creator.

 

SMB has potential and great talent. He just used the wrong materials. Simple mistake. All he has to do is use a better material and problem solved.

 

You are quick to jump at the assumption that SMB isnt going to make this right and is just going to blow it off and leave.

[QuestFan]

SMB has offered to repair it once again. He also stated he would cover shipping costs to and from. I have not decided what I am going to do yet. I really hate to try it once again and it fail again and have to pull it off a fourth time.

 

The manifold obviously can not hold up to my conditions regardless, so why try to repair it a third time. This time with bigger issues.

 

Like I said, lets get more members to run their units through a few weeks worth of heat cycles. If they hold up then you can rag on me and say what ever you want to make me look like a bad guy.

[Chad]

 

Hater band wagon? Really dude? You are one to talk. No one said Chris's abilitys suck or what ever you want to throw out there to try and make me look like a bad guy.

 

I spent $300 +++ on something that has failed numerous times and had to be repaired by the creator.

 

SMB has potential and great talent. He just used the wrong materials. Simple mistake. All he has to do is use a better material and problem solved.

 

You are quick to jump at the assumption that SMB isnt going to make this right and is just going to blow it off and leave.

 

 

Exactly, the only hate is the anti-haters. Ironic

 

A specific unrelated member has helped market them as "indestrictble" before a single one had been put into customer use, and is now hating on haters here. I cant' help but wonder what that is all about. a failure has occured, lets find out if it's systemic or isolated.

 

and Yes Joe, I have been unavailable. I have a lot of priorities with a growing family, new house, yadd, yadda. The virtualy dead customer market and new competition does not exactly drive my desire to resume production. "We will see" is still an accurate answer. I'm currently recovering from a major injury, so I have a lot of catching up to do in my personal life.

 

Lets lett this topic play out, this is an investigative topic, not a hater topic.

[QuestFan]

Well I have decided I am done with this exhaust manifold.

 

I am not going to waist the time and effort to have it repaired again.

 

So either I would like a refund or this thing is going for scrap.

 

I have already informed SMB of this information.

 

 

I am currently looking at two options:

 

#1: Have Chad construct a manifold out of 316 stainless.

 

#2: Have maxboost87 or the local "miracle welder" weld up my stock manifold and add a WG flange and a turbo flange adapter. Exactly like Phinko's. Pics below:

This is how his is:

http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10142/SANY0107.JPG

Edited September 3, 2011 by YoungQuestFan

[Indiana]

As not to be negative I'll offer some suggestions. Some thought and hope went into these and they weren't free. Do the bolt holes have a little extra room so that when the tubes move from the heat the bolts can also move and not cause so much stress? On the external WG we used the gaskets were metal with a raised sealing surface and you don't just tighted up the bolts as much as you can. You need a flex on the exhaust and engine mounts that are using the movement limiting brackets that went over the top of them.

 

 

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/311GUOJaLuL._SS500_.jpg

[SOTTY]

.

 

 

 

#1: Have Chad construct a manifold out of 316 stainless.

 

#2: Have maxboost87 or the local "miracle welder" weld up my stock manifold and add a WG flange and a turbo flange adapter. Exactly like Phinko's. Pics below:

This is how his is:

http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10142/SANY0107.JPG

So why didnt you pony up the extra $$$$ and ask S.M.B to build your header out of 316 stainless in the first place ? i mean your pleading poverty about not wanting to spend the money on getting your header ceramic coated earlier in this uncalled for thread and now your talking about buying a header twice the price that will never be made ? do us all a favor and go with Phinko's modded stock header

[Chad]

.

 

So why didnt you pony up the extra $$$$ and ask S.M.B to build your header out of 316 stainless in the first place ? i

\

 

because it was touted as indestructable as-is.

 

Your other options don't address the topic : is this repeated failure isolated or systememic?

[Scotty Dont]

\

 

because it was touted as indestructable as-is.

 

Your other options don't address the topic : is this repeated failure isolated or systememic?

 

 

I guess we will never know because everyone on this board has no clue how to keep their cars running

[Chad]

LOL, I seem to remember it took about 6 months to get the MK manifolds figured out, cause so few were actualy installed on running cars.

[Technology]

The treadstone cast manifold is always a solid choice, and if you aren't looking for really high rpm and high power, it will suit all your needs:

 

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/data/529/medium/DSC03256.JPG

[Dred_85.5_TSI]

yeah, get the treadstone. do the required mods to make it work since it moves the turbo. It's much less restrictive than a stock manifold. clean up the ports to match them to the head, match the outlet to the turbo, cut the webs between the ports make sure the flange is flat and you're good to go. and unless you build the head for high RPM the G54 won't really rev high enough to need a tubular header (not saying it won't make a difference but you need one heck of a build to need one) to make good power. Plus I hoghly doubt the treadstone will ever crack.

[QuestFan]

.

So why didnt you pony up the extra $$$$ and ask S.M.B to build your header out of 316 stainless in the first place ?

 

Because I didnt know anything about metalurgy when I bought the manifold. I figured it was a good product and I could get some good use out of it. Obviously I was wrong.

 

It has now become such a serious issue that I WILL spend the extra $$$ to buy something that will last without having to add or do something to it.

 

I do not want to be taking my next manifold off for any other reason than removing the engine.