zaza Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) I never had a problem till the one day my battery went dead. No clue why but will check all my fuse links and my ETAC. Is it possible for the coil to short if I jumped my car? It started before and after I jumped it, it started, ran for about 2 minutes and then died. Now I have no spark at all. It sometimes stutters like it wants to start, but no go. i replace some of the fuse likes from a local junkyard. They have a complete car but the engine is missing most of the top end. Could you jump the timing buy jumping the car and repeatedly tried to start it. could replacing the ETAC fix my charging problem, and what can I do to get it started again. Thanx Edited February 16, 2010 by zaza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAinsworth Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 If the battery has ran down and the alternator is not charging, it will not run. I'd suggest charging the battery and checking the main fusible link. The positive post on the battery has a black fusible link that goes from the battery to the alternator. The fusible link is about 4" long. It connects inside a black plastic box between the battery and the alternator. Open that box and check for corrosion also. The fusible link is the black one in this picture: http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/silverquest/album_picCA3J13VP.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaza Posted February 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 I was thinking about that too. Can I just delete the black wire from the box and connect the white wire to the battery to see if thats it. I just want to hear if it gets any spark. I will be replacing the coil in 2 weeks so hopefully that isn't it. Like I said it ran then died and now it seems like no spark. I will check the black fuse link. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAinsworth Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 This is from a post by MikeC on some of the things you need to check: If it starts for a second or two and then dies... something is turning OFF the fuel pump. The ECU powers the entire fuel system, via the ECI relay, as long as the engine runs - as soon as the ECU thinks the engine stalls it cuts the ECI relay OFF to stop the fuel pump. The ECU monitors pulses from the ignition coil's "-" post - the same signal that drives the tachometer. If the tach works, then the ECU should be seeing this signal. While starting, the ignition key's START position also turns on the ECI relay. This is what allows the fuel pump to work while starting, then the ECU keeps the ECI relay ON to keep the engine running. Since you're saying the car starts and then dies a moment later, it's quite possible the relay is turning ON with the ignition key (as it's supposed to) but the ECU isn't holding the relay ON afterwords. Causes: * bad ECI relay (it's really two relays in one box so the ECU's half could be bad) * water from a leaking windshield dribbled down the "A" pillar onto the ECU, making a mess of the connector contacts. Fairly common actually. * Tach signal missing or of such a pulse shape/size that the ECU doesn't register it even if the tachometer does. Some folks have found putting a small capacitor across the tach signal (at the ECU pins - it's one of the two shielded coax type wires) helps. Do a SEARCH on these boards; it was posted eons ago and I don't remember the size that worked. A flakey "ECI" fusible link will also cause these symptoms. Double-check all hose clamps on the air pipes feeding the engine, and look for missing vac/breather hoses especially near the valve cover since you had that apart recently. Any chance the rubber coupler got torn during the work? Big air leaks in this piping lead to engines that won't run because the airflow sensor ends up reading very low... and that's the ECU's main input for how much fuel to inject. One way to "trick" the ECU: hold the gas pedal down almost to the floor while trying to start... if this gets the car running, and you can kep the engine alive this way (it won't drive right though) then there's an issue with the MAS signal. mike c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 It that's your car it looks to be an 87 and maybe your ignitor just died. The ECI fuse link needs to be clean and just take the coil wire off the dist. cap and lay it next to the negative battery cable and crank the motor over. You must have at least 9 volts on a battery IN the car, a dead battery and cables may not start your car. Won't matter if the alternator is dead or not but you need that many volts while cranking or the ECU won't let the motor start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaza Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 so take the cable off the distrubitor cap and hook it up to the neg side of the battery? I can try that. I'm also recharging the battery. It turns over fine, its just tickin me off because it started no problem before and then the last time it started it died after idling. Ever since then no start. I've cleaned all my fuse links by the battery and cleaned the connections in the holder itself. I've even changed all the relays above the ecu to no evail. Just got to keep pluggin at the problems. The PO also has the fans turning on at engine start as well. Can I unplug the fans and see if there would then be enough volts to start? He has them wired in to be on all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAinsworth Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 How much fuel is in the tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaza Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 there is half a tank so I know there should be enough fuel. Will have to wait to get the filters changed. Within the next month I will be replacing the coil, cap, fuel filters, installing a cold air kit,adding a blow off valve to some new plumbing i will be getting from 101purpose, and replace some fuse links. This should work for now. It just bugs me like night and day one minute it starts now nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vnomous1 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I never had a problem till the one day my battery went dead. No clue why but will check all my fuse links and my ETAC. Is it possible for the coil to short if I jumped my car? It started before and after I jumped it, it started, ran for about 2 minutes and then died. Now I have no spark at all. It sometimes stutters like it wants to start, but no go. i replace some of the fuse likes from a local junkyard. They have a complete car but the engine is missing most of the top end. Could you jump the timing buy jumping the car and repeatedly tried to start it. could replacing the ETAC fix my charging problem, and what can I do to get it started again. Thanx http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif Sounds like your ignition coil or ignition module has failed. Starting fine one moment and no spark the next is indicative of some sort of electronics failure. Hooking up the jumper cables improperly is enough to toast the ETACS, affecting your charging. thus requiring it's replacement. But I would try to keep it simple. Ensure that the battery is good (how old is it anyway?) Put on a new coil first and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaza Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 (edited) Well the battery does seem old but it looks good. Its a newer battery. I almost had it started again today but it just wouldn't go. I rechecked my fuse links and checked some of the body grounds and sanded them to make a better contact. I rechecked the coil wire that goes to the distributor and made sure that the plug had good contact. I did what indiana said and just took the wire from the dist and put it by the neg. Then moved it to a bolt by the shock tower. When I cranked the engine I could see orange sparks but they weren't that good. After a while I need to leave to clear my head. Before I left I looked around the engine one last time and saw this. What can this be now? I see no line coming in from the top or behind it. I imagine it can be an oil feed line but why all over the top. seals bad? I'm just going to stop working on it till i get a newer coil. Would this be a good coil for now.http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8202?part=MSD-8202 Edited February 18, 2010 by zaza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 You sure that's not fuel? Leaking injectors it just pushes fuel right out into the exhaust and that's the first place it leaks out is right there at the turbine housing where it exits into the downpipe. If that is fuel your plugs are wet and fuel is everywhere and you also need to change that oil before the motor ever starts. Your plugs will never fire if they are wet you need to take those out if that is fuel. Take the pipe off that leads into the throttlebody and have someone crank the motor over for a few seconds and you see if fuel just pours out from one injector. If an injector is stuck open it won't matter if its plugged in or not as soon as you start cranking the pump starts up and the fuel sprays continuously. If that's oil it may be spraying up from the oil filter adapter or one of the oil cooler lines. What was the story when you got this car? All the cranking and it not starting still has fuel being sprayed in and its not being burned up so its just laying in the intake manifold and all that needs to evaporate so leave the OVCP pipe off, fix the throttleplate so its fully open and leave it until you think its dried up. Pull the dipstick out and see if the oil smells like fuel. If it does change it asap and if an injector was found to be stuck open don't even crank it over just get that oil out and replace it with new and don't crank it again until you get that injector cleaned or replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaza Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 (edited) I will do what you say. It does smell like fuel so that is somewhat good.at least in injectors are working. I found this on craigslist for $700. I went down to look at it and it seemed well. Charging was a problem. He said he just charged the battery that morning. The other thing was being that its an auto the tranny shifts past second and into third when I let off the gas. Then he said he had spent $250 on new injectors. They look new, but what do I know right now. I drove the car from fitchburg, wis to Reedsburg,wis which is about 1hour and 10 min away. Couple hiccups on the way here, but made it. I'm just getting started and everyone laughs because I spent the money on this car and not a used mustang. :mad: Like you said, tomorrow I will take off the ovcp and let it dry out, as well as the plugs. What size socket fits the plugs? I have very limited tools at the moment and plan on getting more. The car will be sitting for about 2-3 weeks while I save some money to get a new coil plugs and wires and replacing a couple filters with some new fuse links from dad. That should be ample time to dry out. Thank you Edited February 18, 2010 by zaza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vnomous1 Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I will do what you say. It does smell like fuel so that is somewhat good.at least in injectors are working. I found this on craigslist for $700. I went down to look at it and it seemed well. Charging was a problem. He said he just charged the battery that morning. The other thing was being that its an auto the tranny shifts past second and into third when I let off the gas. Then he said he had spent $250 on new injectors. They look new, but what do I know right now. I drove the car from fitchburg, wis to Reedsburg,wis which is about 1hour and 10 min away. Couple hiccups on the way here, but made it. I'm just getting started and everyone laughs because I spent the money on this car and not a used mustang. http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif Like you said, tomorrow I will take off the ovcp and let it dry out, as well as the plugs. What size socket fits the plugs? I have very limited tools at the moment and plan on getting more. The car will be sitting for about 2-3 weeks while I save some money to get a new coil plugs and wires and replacing a couple filters with some new fuse links from dad. That should be ample time to dry out. Thank you http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif Zaza, these cars are money pits. Many have found that out the hard way and wind up parting out a perfectly fixable classic, especially if yo uare not mechanically savy...dont do that, just cut your loss and sell it. However, Indiana gave you some good advice pertaining to the gas in the oil; really check it out, because running the car like that is a death sentence for the engine. Be smart. Do a quick check to see if the injectors are leaking per Indiana's instructions, if that turns out OK, swap out the coil. Believe me if it is getting good spark and gas and all else is well, she will start. Also ensure that the MAS sensor plug on the air filter lid is on securely. Does it have the original exhaust system? Huge possibility is the catalytic converters are clogged. You must take the exhaust system apart to see. If she starts, you got your answer. Now the if it does not start, you may have a more serious problem such a worn timing chain that has skipped a tooth, a cam dowel pin has sheared, ect., you get the picture. How many miles on the motor? 13/16 socket for the spark plugs. Hope that helps, keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaza Posted February 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) well the car only has 84k on it right now. I knew when I got the car that this would be something I'm going to keep. Its not everyday you see one of these cars, driving at least. Once I got it home, I knew that I was going to keep it no matter what. Even though I still get crap from the wife about it, its still mine. I know this will be a big project and there will be problems, but its something I'll live with. I still couldn't pass it up even with all the spare parts that came with it. I called carquest yesterday and asked him for some parts, he asked me for what type of car and I told him my conquest. He started laughing and said, "WOW, I had one of them and wish I still had it". That made me feel good because once it gets going, It just will be pure satisfaction to me for the work I put into it. There are a great group of people here who I can at least turn to when things get crappy. That just makes everything better. As far as the exhaust, The PO told me he had taken of the second cat, but the one on the downpipe is still in place. About that airbox, the sensor is there but there is no filter. and there is a big hole cut into the side of the can. I can work past this. I will be doing all my preventative work now before even attempting to start it again. Edited February 20, 2010 by zaza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan89quest Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) what year is you're car because my 89 did this same thing 2 weeks after i got it. chased wires and spent a lot of time trouble shooting and spending money, turned out my igniter was bad. if u have a friend crank it over while checking for spark on the #1 pug wire does it spark weak then fade to nothing? because that is the way mine was. Btw i hope u like to read and like you're computer because u can count on spending hours researching a problem, only to find its something small. but dont give up on it cuz it is worth it in the end!! i got my car out of a barn where it sat for 7years because the ecu was bad. i have had a few problems but nothing a little reading on here and asking a few questions couldnt get fixed. Edited February 20, 2010 by nathan89quest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaza Posted February 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) Yea mine is an 88. I also think the ingnitor is bad. I will be changing a few things and replacing so me worn out parts before I give it a go again. I held the plug wire that goes to the distributor nect to a shock mount bolt and I could see some spark. I got some orange sparks, but always thought they were suppose to be blue. My ingnitor box also looks to have had better days and will be replacing that to. First things first is to change the oil and get a new filter, then comes the coil, plug, etc. Trust me, I'm on this site everyday. Usually 4-5 hours a day, just looking around and reading what other people have done and how they got past their problems. Edited February 20, 2010 by zaza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 The spark won't always be blue depends on how clean and how far the ground it jumps to is that's why I said the negative battery post and that's what the service manual says so you don't have those high voltage spikes running through your entire car looking for a ground and frying things you don't want fried. 88 ignitors do not go bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierquest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 with the way you describe it trying to start and that fuel smelling stain around the tubo I would say its flooding itself somehow. after you try starting it pull one of the plugs and see how they look . if they are wet that could be a leaky injector or I guess possibly weak spark. I would lean more toward stuck or leaky injector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaza Posted February 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I just removed the spark plugs today. Yep they were wet, still after close to a week. Right now I have my TB held open to allow the fuel inside to evaporate. I got new plugs today as well. Things left would be to change the oil and filter and get a 1g mas for the cold air kit I bought. It was that prelude intake that some people have. I might just put the old one back on to make sure it runs, but I wanted to do this stuff to it first. Good Idea or not? I'm going to check the pigtails on the injectors and see If I can have someone look at the injectors when I try to start it and tell me what it looks like. Also going to take off the alternator and clean that up and make sure the connections are clean as I am having charging problems. I also found a power steering pump off a conquest at a local yard. What things will I have to check it for to make sure its good? I also want to get a new coil. I heard people say that when they installed a new coil, things got better. One other thing, If the alternator is bad, I doubt it, maybe just bad connections as well as the black fuse link, What other type of alt. could I use, but has a higher amperage? Not knowing if thats a good thing or not. I imagine they wouldn't have put a small one in there if it didn't do the job. Thanks everybody, hopefully will be running real soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 While the plugs are out, get a compression gauge and check that. Don't put now plugs in until you see if an injector is stuck or you'll just get those wet too. All you have to do is remove that pipe that runs across the valve cover to the throttlebody inlet, crank the motor over first with both injector unplugged and then with only the primary plugged in then again with only the secondary plugged in. To check the secondary while cranking, you'll have to use the wire for the primary injector because the secondary plug doesn't fire when cranking. If they don't drip and both do spray, put it back together and let it start up. Don't forget to put some anti seize on your spark plugs threads it makes them very easy to remove and not have issues later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaza Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 well igot it started today. It was flooded. As soon as I put in the new plugs and install the old mas sensor ant the ovcp, she start6ed up first turn of the key. Now I just have to fix my charging problem, and install the power steering pump and I will be good to go for a while. Any special tool needed to install a power steering pump? thanks Indiana for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alsandr Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Nope, no special tool. Just disconnect the two hoses that run to the top and let the fluid drain out. After that, there's three bolts holding it in place, two behind the wheel and one on the back. Pull those out, pull off the pump, drop your other one in, bolt it back on and reconnect the hoses. Make sure you get the belt to the right tension before tightening it all back together or else your PS won't work. Also, fill it with Dexron II, not PS fluid. Using PS fluid will ruin it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coke Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 88 ignitors do not go bad This is false Information. 88 Ignitors DO in fact go bad. It is just not as common to hear, as it is for the 84-87 black box style. I've had two 88 ignitors fail on me so far. It does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 What did you do to them, they full of water? That's the first I've heard of a bad one. Plastic changes shape with temperatures and breaks the board apart from the inside out on those plastic ones, the metal case is just a board but maybe someone dropped it or was it just fried? I've taken those apart before its nothing inside that looks fragile its the construction on the plastic ignitor that causes it to fail not the circuits are faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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