nine5raptor Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 That is another option. I personally don't run close enough to the edge to need to dial in that last few percent. Then again, I have never run race gas and pump can be too unpredictable from fill-up to fill-up to run right on the edge. At the track, I run the same as on the street: pump 92, spare, jack and about 200 lbs worth of books and research in the back. I don't care what I can max out at, just where I am at on an everyday basis. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cudabnu Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 Just use cation using the K&N style air filters that use a oil, The flow of air will suck the oil out and it will cake on the MAF, Not sure it the translator has the feature that super heats the sensor wires to burn off any buildup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Wow , this is cool stuff. Any updates on this? How's everyone's cars running with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted June 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 I just painted my 90 deg elbow yesterday with the last coat of paint. So it will be another few days before I hook it all up. I also received my translator yesterday as well. As far as my brother's car, he had what we think is a bad spark plug wire so we were fighting something else on his car at the same time. Hopefully we have his drivablility issues worked out now so we can really play with it. But the verdict for a highly moded car is that it is (in our opinion) a very worthwhile upgrade. My car is pretty stock except for the hardpipes and 2.5" exhaust. I will let you know how mine runs on the road once I get it all put together. Raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 hey ray if you could keep track on how long it takes to tune the maf trans? i was wondering from the time it is plugged in to the time itis running to the point of good daily driving type of setup? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nine5raptor Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 If a dsm maf is just plug and play for you guys then the trans is as well. Â For me (2G dsm), all I had to do was swap mas and filter, plug in the plugs, then set 4 dip switches (one on, 3 off) and I was off and running. Â With all settings at 0, it ran like stock, just with a much quicker spool. Â Then it is all tinkering, much like an afc. The good thing is though, you don't actually have to cut ecu wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 In the instructions you receive w/ the translator it reads and I quote, "Tuning and Adjustment The user must have access to some feedback tools. Although rough tuning can be accomplished by the seat-of-the-pants method, a Scantool is extremely valuable in determining the best settings of the Translator. The ECU does not update its learned fuel trim values all the time and a perceived change could be learned out once the fuel trim updates activate. Some amount of drive-time must be allowed so the ECU can adjust to the changes." End quote. Allot of people on the DSM site are tuning with out a feed back source or better known as seat-of-the-pants method, and are having good results, but I can see there may be a tendency (by the type of question that are being asked) to rely upon what some one else set their dials at to tune the Translator . The initial mode set up (4 section dip switch) is going to be the same for us as it is of the 1G DSM's But the Base Dial and the rest of the Dials IDLE, MID, WOT, through AUX are going to be different for almost everyone. For example anyone who has done research on the StarQuest injectors knows almost no two pairs are the same Some have higher flow rate that spec. other have lower. Also the same with the ECU's They are not identical , even within the same year of production. Not to mention different MODs Exhaust, Turbos, Intakes, Fuel pumps...etc. So it is going to be important to Use some kind of feed back device (tool) like a Dynamometer, a Data logger (Only wish some one would reverse engineer some thing like this for our cars!!) or a WIDE band 02 sensor. I believe it will save allot of headaches in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nine5raptor Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 I agree, something is necessary. If you can only do a/f guage and pyrometer, that is better than nothing. The people who tune solely by seat of the pants with no prior tuning experience and using something this powerful are idiots. I use a pocketlogger and have mine set up to run the best as 0 base +10% richer at idle -5% at mid and -10% at wot. Who would've guessed that w/o empirical data??? My long term fuel trim shows it is still adding in 12% more fuel at idle even on top of the 10% I add Can we say sloppy tolerancing? Totally stock, the fuel trim was stuck at 17% richer just to get the car running. If I disconnected the battery before I got the translator, it would barely start and would usually die a couple of times before I got it to even out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 Anyone else, I havn't looked into it yet, but does anyone know of a good line we can tap into to obtain the RPM signal from the ECU? Â I assume it has to be from the ECU. Â My guess was that we can tap the signal that controls the stock tachometer? Â I assume that comes from the ECU. Raymond Can anyone verify if this conector in this location has a light green & black wire that can be taped for a tach signal? http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/pa8083cfdcc1950b6977a5a73eae9ef61/fbd70683.jpg (Small image I know but you can see were I'm have it diagramed) I think I'll ask Mike C to verify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted June 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 Importwarrior, I would say just a few mins and you will have it setup that will be good for daily driving. To get real picky or experiment around, then it will take longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 got my MAF yesterday for 66 dollars including 11 dollar shipping! just waiting on the translator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted June 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 Are you going with the 3" or 3.5"? Raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 i belieeve it is 3.5. Â but i have to measure it to be exact. less than 200 miles on it then it was yanked ! he gave it to me real cheap.! it is off a 2002 trans am WS6 as far as a good wire for spark or rpm do a PM to mike c he is the encyclopedia of these cars ! i mean it! he will have the answer and color of the wires pin numbers and everything you ask for! save time and ask him. then let us know what he said! thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 well i PM'd mike c to ask for his help and gave him the link to this thread , so we will see what he has to say! thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Remember, StarQuest ECUs basically work with the throttle body assembly to form an electronic carburetor... the entire ignition system operates independently of the ECU unlike more modern ECUs which control everything. StarQuest ECUs do monitor engine RPMs, mostly for adjusting the idle controls on the throttle body to get the right idle speed and to monitor the engine to detect accidents/collisions. The ECU monitors the ignition coil "-" lead which happens to be the exact same signal that drives the tachometer. A shielded wire originates at the tach "-" post and goes to both the tach and to the ECU. That's really the ONLY tach signal you'll find on a StarQuest that you can easily tap into. Anything else is buried inside electronic boxes - the epoxy sealed ignitor box or the ECU. There are two small shielded "coax" cables (like cable TV cables, only smaller) going to the ECU connectors: one is the tach signal, the other is the O2 sensor signal. The pins vary depending which model year car you've got... so the best way to ID the tach signal is to: * key out of the ignition, unplug the ECU connectors. * using an ohmmeter (analog or digital, doesn't matter) look for continuity from one of the shielded wires to the coil "-" post. mike c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 The ECU monitors the ignition coil "-" lead which happens to be the exact same signal that drives the tachometer. A shielded wire originates at the tach "-" post and goes to both the tach and to the ECU. That's really the ONLY tach signal you'll find on a StarQuest that you can easily tap into. Being that is the only Tach signal accessible to Tap.. which location would be as described in the Installation Guide that comes with the Ramchargers 1G/ GM MAS Translator? " The signal needs to be a clean , logic level signal , no coil terminals." I only have a vauge idea of what they mean as a clean logic level signal. How far from the (-) coil terminal would you have to go to get what they discribe? Thanks for your time Mike your advice is always welcomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWD4G63 Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 It is pin #1 at the ecu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted June 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Well, it sounds to me like we may be stuck on this one, only I seem to remember reading a post regarding the installation of those MSD Ignition boxes that talked about some sort of filter or something that exists between the coil and ignitor/tach/ECU to clean the signal up. Â Not sure on the details but I will try and reread the information I have. Â Thanks for everyones input, this helps narrow down our options. Â Update: Â I got my car running and did one quick run down the street and I really like the setup. Â I will spend more time on running it today and I will post more detail later, but I'm very happy with the upgrade. Â Raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted June 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 I don't know if this will be good/safe enough to tap, but see the first picture in this thread. http://www.starquestclub.com/index.pl?boar...5532190;start=4 There is a "stock component RC filter" listed there that appears to go between the negative lead on the coil and the ECU/Tach/Ignitor. Â Does anyone(Mike C) think this(which is basically what you were suggesting to tap I believe) would likely work for what Ramchargers is calling for to feed a logic level tach signal to their translator? Raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 "Logic level" probably means the type of voltages used by TTL and/or CMOS computer integrated circuits - chips that run on 5.0 volt power supplies: logic 0: 0.0 to 0.8 volts (ideally 0.0 volts) logic 1: 2.4 volts or higher, up to 5.0 volts. The coil signal is a spike of much more than 5 volts. At least 12 volts. If you really have to use it, your best bet would be to: 1: use a high value resistor to "sample" the signal from the "-" lead and drive a transistor with that signal. Zener diodes can be used to "clamp" the voltages to safe levels to protect the transistor. 2: the transistor is wired as an emitter follower circuit, with the collector lead powered by a +5volt signal. Not by a +12volt signal. 3: the output would be taken from the transistor's emitter lead (hence the emitter follower name) and fed to the translator box. Does the translator box specify a duty cycle and/or minimum pulse width requirement for the RPM signal? The circuit I just described will provide a low duty cycle pulse timed with the coil. If the signal needs to be more like a square wave (50 percent duty cycle) then other processing is required... mike c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 Â Does the translator box specify a duty cycle and/or minimum pulse width requirement for the RPM signal? Â The circuit I just described will provide a low duty cycle pulse timed with the coil. Â If the signal needs to be more like a square wave (50 percent duty cycle) then other processing is required... mike c. I don't know enough about Eclipse/Talon Sensor Signals to be able to answer that correctly... But the the preferred wire to use in the case of the DSM is the CAS (crank/cam angle sensor) but since the Starquest's do not use a CAS sensor the other alternative is the TACH signal an in the case of the DSM is from the "Power Transistor Module". In the trouble shooting section of the instructions an explanation of a "Backup Mode" is given. This is the third alternative for the RPM signal wire but is not an option if you plan on using the AUX dial (Mode 4 dip switch on) for auxiliary fuel injection (Propane, NO2, Alcohol) because this uses the RPM signal to more closely match a "fixed-delivery fuel modifier". This is a Quote from the Translator instructions: "Green LED is blinking :If no RPM signal is present and the MAF signal is 50 grams/sec or higher (for .5 sec then the Translator switches to "backup mode". In Backup Mode the dial selection is according to the following table: IDLE < 10 Â grams/sec airflow MID Â > 65 Â grams/sec airflow WOT Â >120 grams/sec airflow The engine will run perfectly well in backup mode, Contoured AUX mode will not work though." So the Translator will work with out the RPM signal but I'm not sure how much 50 grams/sec is or what the effects would be (drivability) if there is less than 50 gram/sec (airflow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted June 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 I'm in the middle of road tests with it now and my conclusion so far is that the car feels stronger than it did before the upgrade. I'm working out a couple of unrelated issues right now. I'm not sure if I'm noticing quicker spoolup with my setup, but again, I'm working out some other issues. Raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotrodTSi Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 When you get it sorted out, let us know how much sooner the turbo spools...very interested in this info. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted July 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 On the turbo spool up, my brother (see earlier posts about his car, highly modified) indicated that he noticed a quicker spoolup. I don't know that any more details can be provided other than that. It definately hit stronger and quicker than before with the 1G mas. Raymond 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman4449 Posted July 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 update: my alternator just died last night while I was test driving it so my car will be down for some time. Raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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