INCONEL turbine

[DJpowerHaus]

Where can I get an INCONEL turbine wheel?  I reckon its pretty expensive, but I'm just doing some "fantasy tuning".  Anyone ever tried an Autronic SM2 fuel management computer with bang-bang ALS?  I want to be the first!... now if I can just finish college.

[Shawn_Silva]

I think your in a fantasy land dream world and adventure park all at one time!

 

Take care

Shawn

[TSIBoy]

ALS is going to mess that turbo up on your car after about 5 or 6 uses.... but here is my question.... how are you going to put that kind of power to the ground. 15psi at idle is great, but you rarely get traction

[Quest4Power]

bang bang ALS will destroy your exhaust manifold and quite easily burn your valves.  BTW, most other EMS systems can be tuned to be anti lag (i know SDS can).  basically you just richen it in the high vacuum zones and advance the timing wayyy too far and you get a bang bang whenever you lift.  but like i said, i wouldn't recommend it.

[PiercedJD]

last I knew the 4g63 anti lag was retarding the timing , not advancing it.

 

clutch switch operated.

 

same as the studderbox. hold the clutch in and mash the gas it's active. clutch in no gas it's normal.

 

with studderbox and anti-lag you can peg at set rpms (4,500 5,000 or 5,500) on the line, while making boost in a 5 speed since you can't power brake it, and get a nice neck snapping hard launch.

 

if your rear end and axle shafts, clutch and transmission can handle it that is.

 

you can practice that at home. retard your timing to about 10 degrees ATDC and rev it up a few times. just don't drive it like that.

[DJpowerHaus]

Dont be so close minded.  If you all know so much tell me where I can get an INCONEL turbine wheel.  I emailed Ray Hall and he says:

 

Hello Michael,

 

No extra hardware is required if you want to run antilag all the time. This is done with a fixed throttle opening.

 

If you wish to have it operate when engine RPM exceeds a set rpm or via an external switch then the extra hardware required is either use a throttle kicker solenoid or air bypass valve (you can use an idle valve for this).

 

Everything else is setup in the software. When the switch is closed the ECU will retard the ignition timing by up to 65 deg and supply additional fuel through the injectors at the same time turning on the kicker solenoid or opening the air bypass valve.

 

Antilag is hard on turbos, but if not used all the time turbo life will not be affected. The turbine wheel needs to be made of Inconal or simular material. Diesel turbocharger's like the Garrett TO4 do not have Inconal wheels. Also some T3 do not have these wheels either.

 

Ray Hall.

 

If anyone has any links for info on ALS I'd love to read it.  

 

I dont care how feasible this stuff is.  I just want to learn what is possible and maybe I'll get lucky.  That's how I stumbled over this car in the first place... never could I have believed I could get a turbo intercooled RWD car that looks sexy as hell for only $2000 with alots of goodies.  It just takes a willingness to learn my options and not just back away from things until I know all my options.

[PiercedJD]

not being close minded. In fact I gave a proper description of how it works. It does work btw Jesus has been using it in hi awd eclipse which has so far run a best of 9.8 @  146 mph. He is using a Greddy supra spec T-78 turbo in that car. That turbo would take forever to spool without the anti-lag.

[kev]

Inconel (A600 or A690) Steel is an extremely hard and heavy material.  Do we really want this for a turbine?   I think this wheel will kill turbo bearings in no time and take longer to spool up because of weight reasons.   I can understand a turbine housing but not a turbine.   I use this material for designing steel for nuclear power plants, lol.  

 

Also Inconel has a problem with cracking.    I picture a turbine blowing into pieces, hehe.

[Quest4Power]

last I knew the 4g63 anti lag was retarding the timing , not advancing it.

 

that's what i meant, sorry.

and i wasn't trying to shoot down your ideas, i was just going on information that was given to me by a good friend and dyno tuner who's tuned more than a couple of rally cars with ALS systems.  He's seen plenty of cracked exhaust manifolds from bang bang systems among other things like burnt valves and trashed turbines.

[PiercedJD]

rally cars and drag cars are two different beasts entirely. If you are only using it on the launch ( as it should be used in drag racing) then you just keep the rpms up to keep the turbo spooled without any problems.

 

rally cars are subject to a lot more abuse. I would never use a large turbo and anti lag in a rally car. just use a smaller turbo with slightly higher compr. pistons to the same effects with no ill side effects.

[importwarrior]

dont they use a titanium turbine wheel in FIA world rally cars?

[Quest4Power]

rally cars and drag cars are two different beasts entirely. If you are only using it on the launch ( as it should be used in drag racing) then you just keep the rpms up to keep the turbo spooled without any problems.

 

rally cars are subject to a lot more abuse. I would never use a large turbo and anti lag in a rally car. just use a smaller turbo with slightly higher compr. pistons to the same effects with no ill side effects.

 

the reason i assumed rally cars was because he said a "bang bang ALS" which is what all the FIA rally cars use.  but it seems he meant more of a drag launch setup.

[Tim_C.]

Not sure if it is the same as INCONEL, but a friend of mine has a Porsche Type 1 CNC milled block w/intercooled Raja 70 turbo. Goes through a big carb.

He is getting it set-up right now with some new anti lag system that operates off of a vacuum cannister of some kind, and shoots air at the compressor wheel I think? I'll see it early spring or so!

Tim C.

[Quest4Power]

well, the bang bang type of system can actually be tuned into just about any standalone ECU.  basically in the high vacuum zones when you lift and the engine is braking the ECU keeps dumping fuel and retards the ignition so far that it ignites after the exahst vavles open, causing the explsion to go straight out the port and through the turbine.  it causes quite a bit force on the turbine wheel as well as tons of heat on the valve and lots of pressure on the manifold/turbine.  the tuner i had spoken to said after a few good uses the bang bang ALS blew a brand new custom fabbed turbo header to pieces due to it being weakend by the explosions.  who knows, it could've been just a crappy header, but i can see what he was talking about.

[DJpowerHaus]

I'm glad there is a discussion of the tech of ALS now... thats what I wanted :-).  I'm more interested in rally stuff anyways (there aren't any straight roads out here in the boonies anyways).  Power4Quest.. your description sounds just like I thought it would be like... where did you get your info?  I want to learn more.  I've got a source for inconel and someone that knows how to work on it... I just need every other part now .

 

Anyone up for 1 lap around Prettyboy (reservoir by my house)?  Fun fun roads.

[Quest4Power]

my source is a local dyno tuner.  i'm sure you can find info if you do a search on yahoo or another search engine though.

 

here's one i just found:

http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/bangbang.html

[importwarrior]

i dont know if i want to risk all this.

 

if im only going to edrive it once in the blue moon? what fun would that be?

 

THE RISKS,

copied off of the link,

 

A quick rise of the turbocharger's temperature (which jumps from ~800°C to the 1100°C+ region) whenever the system is activated

 

A huge stress on the exhaust manifold and pipes (mounted on a street car a bang-bang system would destroy the exhaust system within 50-100 km)

 

The turbo produces significant boost even at engine idle speeds

 

The explosions which occur in the exhaust tubes generate important flames which can, sometimes,  be seen at the end of the exhaust tube

 

Reduced engine brake