Tim_C. Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yes, I did for $126 for the pair. I got them from a bearing supplier that my friend uses for his alternator shop. Sounds like the same ones as the quote you got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Well, I have all of the rear suspension and the diff/torque tube assembly out of the car. I cleaned all the parts and burned out the bushings and installed new ones today. I have KYB struts and Suspension techniques lowering springs prepped on the spindles. New rear rotors, pads, and sway bar bushings too. I hope to have it all together this week with the Stedbani bushing kit in the rear and front. We don't quite understand what the instructions mean when it says the OEM torque tube mounts aren't used? We should have the 390's in this week! I'll keep posting progress on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 i think i'd keep the rubber coat'd pads for the frt of the diff lol not much of a fan of metal to metal diff mounting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 i think i'd keep the rubber coat'd pads for the frt of the diff lol not much of a fan of metal to metal diff mounting Yeah, we figured they included poly replacements, but we can't see any that fit in the bushing kit? We are definitely using the stock ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 After looking at their instructions, they must have meant the torque tube crossmember mounts. It says torque tube mounts are not used, but they must have meant the crossmember mounts need replaced too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 After looking at their instructions, they must have meant the torque tube crossmember mounts. It says torque tube mounts are not used, but they must have meant the crossmember mounts need replaced too? I remember being stuck at that point too when I did my poly bushing install, and I really want to figure it out. When I was in there recently installing my 3.90s I noticed space between the TT mounts (oval shaped rubber/metal thingies). I cranked down on the bolts and it wouldn't draw up tight. I think I took that part of the instructions the same way you did, that the cross member mounts are not used, not that the actual TT mounts are not used. But my car pulls to the left on accel as if something is twisting back there and the drive wheels aren't staying straight, so something might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 the rubber has a tendency to smash out and not hold tight on the tourqe tube mounts,,you can grind the metal spacer down a little to tighten them up if new rubber spacers are not available,, the rubber being loose can cause the tourqe tube to move up and down with in the mount as for not runing true on launch the diff has nothing to do with that,, the alxes had two u-joints in them so the diff alignment has no effect on tracking , some thing moveing under heavy load on the rear can ,, also tire MUST be matching pairs as to height, the taller tire will always pull the car to that side,, same for air pressure , both tires need the same air pressure to maintain same ride heigth just because 2 tires are the same numbers do not mean they are identical in size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Yeah, that is odd Chip. The rubber keeps the torque tube front mounting plate off of the crossmember so there is a gap there, but shouldn't be one anywhere else. Our main concern was maintaining the correct pinion angle so we didn't want to change anything there. We looked at all the bushings in the kit and didn't see any that were supposed to go in there. Mitsu sure made these cars a bit loosey goosey with all the rubber mounts and pivot points everywhere. Mega smooth for that luxury feel, but not enough 'sport' for me. We did diagnose my rear steer problem to be the large outer TT crossmember bushings. They were intact, but wearing crooked with way too much 'give' to them. Once the soft rubber starts leaning one way, it seems to snowball that direction so to speak. Mitsu left gaps in the bushing for yet a softer ride where I think they should have stiffened that up some. But heck, it lasted 20 years so it can't be all that bad. There is always something that gets compromised in order to gain something else and they chose the soft ride feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 We got it back on the road with 3.90's today. I can't keep the 255/50's from spinning. I need to drop air pressure which will help. I have them at 50 PSI for some odd reason! I wasn't too worried about traction during the test. These gears are very streetable. It is a modest difference and definitely fine for the highway. I did one short pass on the highway. Spun through first and revved to 7500 so quick I couldn't come off fast enough. It wanted more though! Grabbed 2nd and spun them so I backed off a bit. Grabbed third and looked down to see the speedo at 110! I backed off again there because it was the first time out after a few miles of running it. We checked every bolt twice, so we were confident everything would hold together fine. All in all I am very happy with them. I'm currently running a 17C at about 14PSI with the stock injection system. Too much stuff was happening for me to look at the boost gauge. If you can look at it, it aint hi enough! The roller cam want's all the RPM I can give it. Glad we built it to handle it! The rush was exhilerating. My heart started pumping like crazy. I now have the gears, new u-jounts, poly bushings, KYB struts, and ST springs all around. New stock rotors and brake pads all around. These cars brake so well with the ABS removed that I haven't felt the need to improve them just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 so you like'd that did you,,well next time try 18 lbs :biggrinumbrella1: it sure feels good to see guys going to gear swaps , i start'd talking about just that 8-9 yrs ago and was told we don't need any such thing , well maybe some do and some don't but if your engine has the rpms for it it's a must Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Yeah, I'll do more testing when the weather gets better. My heater doesn't work because the valve is closed shut and can't get it to open. My windows were fogging so bad I had to use a credit card while driving to scrape them off! Talk about not being able to read the boost gauge! I really do like them so far. Boost comes on sooner, stays on longer because the RPM is catching so fast the turbo doesn't have a chance to lose boost up high. I have to shift way before I feel it nosing over (haven't felt that yet!) It's all good! Except for mileage, but who drives these cars for that? I'll get better mileage when I go MPI, so I'm not very concerned even if I cared about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 let me know if you need parts for that heater i should have an 83 an 86 wide body and one out of an 89 ,, some thing will work i'm sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Yeah, I will look at it. I know the kid before me took some stuff out under there to try and fix it. I think actuators are missing, etc...! I never had the heater working in it. I also wanted to say my stack of the friction discs as shown in posts above seems to be very tight but I didn't notice any jumping, etc... like I do in my friends detroit locker, or my other friends welded up set! I'll drive it more and update as time goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 A question came up the other day about eliminating the torque tube. I fooled around a little today in the shop. This is the easy part. The housing could easily be machined for the truck dust shield i think. The real headache wound be the cross-member, i think the drive shaft would hit it. It would need to be modded anyway to allow easy removal of the drive shaft, and of course the support brackets for the front of the diff. The theory is that by eliminating the twist of the torque tube wheel hop would be reduced. Much the same way ladder bars prevent leaf springs from twisting up and than unloading when the tires loose grip. Down side would be greater shock load on the rear and axles. The car might gain a few pounds also. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/ea90166f.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/65f3e168.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/2892eb4a.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 there has to be an answer for the drive shaft hiting cause Haztoys said he has done this several times before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 there has to be an answer for the drive shaft hiting cause Haztoys said he has done this several times before Nothing a sawzall and a welder can't deal with. . I think weld some steel to the bottom of the cross member, bolt a tie bar to it and than notch or cut the center out of the cross member. For the diff structure bolt a plate where the tt bolted to the diff and than bring a pair of square tubes forward to connect to the cross member. The trick wound be to design it so the drive shaft could be removed with minimal effort. The sway bar is there also and would likely need to be unbolted from the cross member to pull the drive shaft. Than again maybe the whole rear suspension could be lowered enough to get the drive shaft out when the clutch or trans needs serviced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toysrus Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I thought it would be common sense to drop down on gear ratios, much like increase tyre height when looking for more grip.. Last time I did the calculations, changing gears actually hurt the acceleration times not even accounting for any wheelspin periods..... This sort off thing only works out better in light normally aspirated Engine/vehicle combinations... Disregarding the above, its still a worthy thread. I tip my hat to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Here you go again with your strong opinions. "Only works on light NA vehicles". The word "only" is pure BS. Man, there are more than a few 11 second Starquests over the years who ran the 3.90's and even 4.22's. While you are calculating and reading books, true enthusiasts are putting theories to the test. Please stick to your own experiences from your own builds if you have built anything? If you haven't, then please post your strong opinons after you have some results from something you built. I don't care if your results are your opinion, at least you can post what you did and what happened to the best of your ability instead of posting your calculated opinions from a non existent build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toysrus Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Here you go, try it for yourself > http://maxracesoftware.com/etavbwin.htm Feel free to post/upload saved files of a stock driveline combination vs an optimised one. Lukily it doesn't calculate wheelspin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Here you go, try it for yourself > http://maxracesoftware.com/etavbwin.htm Feel free to post/upload saved files of a stock drive line combination vs an optimised one. Luckily it doesn't calculate wheel spin. Thanks for the link, i will look in to that. When i researched this i did find the arguments against it from the GN, turbo 2.3 ford and lately the nissan turbo guys compelling. One of the reasons i went ahead was that real world drag testing, with time slips to go with the opinions was non existent for the starion. My testing is incomplete and clearly my car is nosing over at the top of 4th and on late shifts. That maybe a fuel or ignition problem, the car is parked for the winter salt season. The track opens winter permitting in March. I also would like to go back to automatic and gears should work better with them. Again i need to raise my rpm range a little so i don't run out at the top of 3rd. I had the ability to do the swap for for cheep, about $200 out of pocket. I really did not hope for more that a tenth or two, if the track times don't support the swap i will go back to stock. A racer chooses his ratios based on the track he is running. There are a lot of guys on here that auto cross, road race, and drift race. I found one experienced racer that swaps rears based on the event he is running and even runs 4.62's at a hill clime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Exactly. These cars were not built for drag racing, but it seems if your mod doesn't support drag racing then it isn't a good mod. I'm not saying there isn't merit to different set-ups. I'm just saying we don't need to make blanket statements to say the mod is never a good choice, etc... My engine revs to 7500+RPM freely. Yes, the cam is for high RPM, but launches like a rocket. 3.90 gears is a very small jump up. If your engine can't handle that jump, then it is in stock form and not tuned very well. Sure, there are other mods needed to fully take advantage of the gears, but those mods are basic like exhaust, more air, more fuel, etc.. A stock long block would run fine with 3.90's. Gearing helps to get to the sweet spot RPM range faster. If your range is very short due to your set-up/other mods, then it will also nose over sooner. The gears point that out so when you extend the range with more mods, you get the best of both low end power and top end. It simply comes on sooner and lasts longer. It is a win win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toysrus Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 There are a lot of guys on here that auto cross, road race, and drift race. I found one experienced racer that swaps rears based on the event he is running and even runs 4.62's at a hill clime. I completely agree with you on that one. It was just from most of the posts I read were all in reference to straight line racing, which is why I said what I said. Most professional teams have little time or money to spend on trail and error and use a variety of highly developed software to get the answers they're after. Luckily for us their are some cheaper alternatives out their which have acceptable error margins. I can post a link to the Circuit software which has a huge range of tracks which the aurthor can also add a specific track for you at additional cost ? This one unfortunately calculates wheelspin so you might find yourself tweaking the simulator for a few days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 So you're saying wheelspin cannot be overcome? The ability to put more power to the wheels is the start of working on controlling it. My wheels do spin easier, but I am just having fun. I can easily control it with better tires, correct pressure, etc.. I plan on going to the track to see what it does, but I built the car for highway driving power to cross the continental divide easier. We all have our unique goals that are not so apparent to others. Understanding that helps us to not diss on other people's efforts that have indeed paid off for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toysrus Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Wheelspin can be controlled, unfortunately the simulator doesn't think so... The software has probably been advanced more since I last used it so it might'n not be so fussy anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) Here you go, try it for yourself > http://maxracesoftware.com/etavbwin.htm Feel free to post/upload saved files of a stock driveline combination vs an optimised one. Lukily it doesn't calculate wheelspin. I fooled around with this a little last night. Haven't fully figured it out yet. Some of the data i entered was probably off. It says my car should be much quicker and faster, 12.7-12.8 @ 107-108. If i tweak the data i enter to yield mph and 60's consistent with what i actually can get it still says my car is still capable of 13.0 and even into the high 12's. I would guess my car potential on a perfect run (by my definition) is more like 13.4x. I suspect the simulator is not estimating the time it takes to shift and some other factors. Interestingly, it say my car should be quicker and faster on 3.90 vs 3.54, and quicker and faster yet on 4.22. :biggrinumbrella1: It was consistent in that respect regardless of how i tweaked the data. But again, it is estimating my car can do things i am pretty sure it can't. I will work with the entry data some more. Edited January 29, 2009 by StarquestRescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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