psu_Crash Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) So i finally got MS in and all hooked up. MS1 v3.0 running msns. I am getting the tach signal for MS from the white wire of my MSD 8920 tach adapter. It seems to get a good signal this way. But is that ok to do? I know that wire is a 12v square wave. I hooked up everything to my stock TBI with 2x950cc new trilogy injectors. When i try to start it it does very quickly start up and then it immediately dies. I don't think I am getting fuel. MS shows that it is pulsing the injectors, but I am not sure I have the injector settings correct in MS. I did a little research in the megamanual and I thought I had it all right but apparently not. Here is a link to my .msq file if you want to see my configuration. What do you think? Thanks in advance! starion.msq Edited July 28, 2008 by psu_Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
substock Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 So i finally got MS in and all hooked up. I am getting the tach signal for MS from the white wire of my MSD 8920 tach adapter. It seems to get a good signal this way. But is that ok to do? I know that wire is a 12v square wave. I hooked up everything to my stock TBI with 2x950cc new trilogy injectors. When i try to start it it does very quickly start up and then it immediately dies. I don't think I am getting fuel. MS shows that it is pulsing the injectors, but I am not sure I have the injector settings correct in MS. I did a little research in the megamanual and I thought I had it all right but apparently not. Here is a link to my .msq file if you want to see my configuration. What do you think? Thanks in advance! starion.msq how do you have the fp wired up? do you hear the fuel pump turn on and off? i ended up needing to wire a switch up for the fuel pump to run, when i get a chance i'm going to run a wire to the fuel pump directly from the ms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted July 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) You might be on to something there. I didn't wire the pump up at all. The MS is piggy-backed with the stock ecu controlling the pump. I bet that is it. I will check it out in the morning and wire up a relay if need be to have MS control the pump. How does my config look? Currently running it as fuel only also. Edited July 28, 2008 by psu_Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Kinda sounds like mine. It turned out I needed to add a lot of fuel to get it idleing. Try that first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted July 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Where did you add fuel? On the fuel VE, or after start enrichment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 I think it was the overall fuel, I have AEM, so it's different, my idle enrichment thing confuses me, so I avoid it. If your idle motor is working, it probably opens up and leans things out, that's why it quits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted July 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) ok so I ran a jumper from the fuel pump test connection straight to the battery and the pump is working fine. Also reconnected the injector wire that applies ground back to the stock ecu and it fires right up. Apparantly i am not getting fuel. Trying adding a s*** load of fuel via ASE and VE tables to no avail. I am getting a solid 12v to the injectors but when i connected my meter to the other side of the injector and ohmed between there and the neg battery terminal I am not getting a pulse. Also visually inspected the injectors during cranking and they are not spraying. MS says it is pulsing at 1.8ms about 8% duty cycle during cranking and the light on my MS is flashing. The injectors are low impedance connected straight to MS but that is supposedly not an issue with the MS version I am using. I connected the 2 injector 1 wires together and the 2 inj 2 wires just like the diagram shows. Since I am running it piggy-back fuel only with the stock ecu the only connections to MS that I am using are coolant temp, TPS, a tach signal, and injectors. Does something else have to be connected for the injectors to pulse? What's the deal ?? Could someone please look at my msq file to see if there is something simple I am missing ?? I see a few other people are experiencing a very similar problem. Edited July 28, 2008 by psu_Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 When you hook up the MS, is the main relay not getting juice to switch on the pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted July 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 I believe it is getting juice. Besides I kept the jumper in place to run the fuel pump constantly and still no spray. Well .. i just noticed something interesting. My fuel pressure gauge shows no pressure. So I removed the return line and cranked for a second with my finger over the port. It is definetely building pressure but even capped the gauge shows nothing?? Think my gauge died? It still runs fine and shows no pressure if i hook up the stock ecu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 The orifice is very small on most gauges, its easy for a little particle to block it and prevent it from reading. You can clean it with a real fine wire. What version of Megatune are you using? When I pull your file into 2.25 there is nothing in the tables, when I try 2.20 it gives an error so I can't see any settings. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted July 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) PROBLEM FIXED! I turned off the 02 correction and it started right up!!!!! Adusted the fuel VE a little to get a good idle. But when i took it for a little test drive the a/f goes WAY high as it comes under load. Going to have to play around with the tables and TPS enrichment I think Scott i am using version 2.25 with MS1/Extra format 029y3 I will get a link to my updated msq file and VE tables tomorrow morning. Time for me to get some sleep before the night shift. Edited July 28, 2008 by psu_Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted July 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Now I realize why EGO correction wasn;t working ... I had my wideband controller set to output a narrow band and MS set for wideband input. Quick change in the wideband settings and all is well. Phew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Wow, that's interesting that it wouldn't work, but I suppose it's probably got some safety features built in for shorts and overloads or whatever. cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted July 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 just finished up for the day tuning a little and replaced the fuel pressure gauge. Now it shows fuel pressure again! Funny that the one i had on quit working it is brand new from jegs. Put about 100 miles on it. Tried to clean it but that didn't work. Yeah car isn't running too bad. Definitely a little rough above idle because it is running quite rich at times, but that's what tuning is for. Now i am just riding the MS learning curve Scotty here is a link to updated msq and fuel VE. Should I be running simultaneous injection or alternating? Currently running simultaneous and i have had to lean out the fuel map quite a bit to get a good idle. Feel free to take a glance and tell me if you see anything jump out at you as very wrong. Keep in mind I haven't really tuned anything but idle so far. Updated MSQ File 7-28 Fuel VE Again .. Thank you so much for the help!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 I went back to the ms site and got the correct megatune so I can see your data now. I think you should adjust your rpm bins and you need to adjust your KPa bins as you're only going up to atmospheric pressure (no boost). There is no need to go down to 500 rpm as these idle at 850 and I doubt you are planning to run 7000 rpm so you could drop that down to the highest rpm you plan to run. Note that its not a rev limiter, it will just use the closest bin value when you exceed any bin values. The idea is to get more tuning resolution in the area you plan to operate in by getting the bins closer together in the case of rpm and farther apart for MAP. Also your AFR targets are really abrupt changes that will need to be smoothed, that can wait until the VE table gets closer. Simultaneous or alternating, either will work, just don't change once you set it. I haven't used the Vex way of tuning, I use Megalogviewer. The idea behind both is to turn off the AFR compensation by raising the active above rpm to 6000 or so, that way it won't be interfering with the VE settings. Then go drive the car while logging, import the log into vex or megalogviewer and have the program recommend VE values. Use the new values and go log again. You will quickly develop a good VE table, keep an eye on the AFR to be sure its in the region you want. Once you get a solid VE table you can go back to turn on AFR compensation and tune that table. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Why should I adjust my Kpa bins only up to atmospheric pressure? I will be running boost very soon. Should i do that just to get a good base VE table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 The file I downloaded had your bins only up to atmospheric pressure, sorry if I confused you. Just double check your .msg file to make sure. Get the bins set before you start to tune, I didn't and had to do a lot of typing in a hot car. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I went through and set up the bins at a pretty even interval from 800 RPM to 6k and Kpa from 20 to 234, 20 psi at my barometric level, I only want to do this once and I want to be prepared for the magna that is going in soon. But i know i will still have to retune for that ... just hopefully it will be quicker. They were like that because a member sent them to me and i hadn't really tuned at that point. Downloaded megalogviewer and used that to adjust my VE table. It wants me to run far richer than I am comfortable with, like 18-20 A/F at 2-3k RPM steady cruise. So I have spent most of the day datalogging and making changes myself. . this is going to take a few days devoted to tuning to get it right I think Scotty if you don't mind once I get some more tuning in I would appreciate it if you took a look at the VE and MSQ again to see what you think. Really trying to keep the new engine injury free. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Yikes, 18-20 is real lean as its 18 parts air to 1 part fuel. Stoich is 14.7:1 as I'm sure you know. Funny that megalogviewer sets the VE so far out like that as I've watched my ego correction and its rarely correcting at all. I guess the other thing that helps is to not have any acceleration enrichment now as well, set the threshold absurdly high so it never is a factor and then just be real smooth and slow on the throttle as you drive around to datalog. Once you get your VE table close you can go back and work on accel enrichment. Don't worry, at first it seems like it will take forever but it actually goes fast and you'll pick up confidence as you go. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 (edited) yeah i meant leaner not richer .. I know it's crazy lean. I only drove about 15 minutes with it cruising like that. When i completely let off the throttle it drops to high 13's to low 14's and the same for when I give it a little gas. I believe I have accel enrichments disabled but I will check it out again in the morning and make sure. Buddy of mine is meeting me in the am to drive it around while I tweak the VE. So hopefully by tomorrow evening I will have a nice map to run on. By the way is it normal for the engine to shake the car a good bit while idleing. I have been blaming that on my cam and the fact that before MS I was unable to idle below 1500RPM. Now it sits at just under 1k RPM idle with A/F at high 14's to low 15's but shakes a bit .. almost to a lope. The A/F is perfect at idle it just seems a bit rougher than it did on the stock ECU. Scotty do you have any VE or A/F maps that you could share with me? I would just like to see what worked for someone else and compare notes. THANKS! Edited July 30, 2008 by psu_Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
substock Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 yeah i meant leaner not richer .. I know it's crazy lean. I only drove about 15 minutes with it cruising like that. When i completely let off the throttle it drops to high 13's to low 14's and the same for when I give it a little gas. I believe I have accel enrichments disabled but I will check it out again in the morning and make sure. Buddy of mine is meeting me in the am to drive it around while I tweak the VE. So hopefully by tomorrow evening I will have a nice map to run on. By the way is it normal for the engine to shake the car a good bit while idleing. I have been blaming that on my cam and the fact that before MS I was unable to idle below 1500RPM. Now it sits at just under 1k RPM idle with A/F at high 14's to low 15's but shakes a bit .. almost to a lope. The A/F is perfect at idle it just seems a bit rougher than it did on the stock ECU. Scotty do you have any VE or A/F maps that you could share with me? I would just like to see what worked for someone else and compare notes. THANKS! what a/f are you at idle? it definatly shouldn't be shaking the car at an idle. your probably really lean and need to add fuel at idle i'll shoot you a pm tomorrow, i am driving home from a business trip in the morning(i'm in easton pa right now), but plan on tuning the car the rest of the afternoon. hopefully i'll have a good map tomorro wafternoon for my mpi. funny, after i did a head swap a couple months ago, i can't get the car to idle under 1400 rpm(it used to idel at 900 before) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted July 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Idle A/F stays right around 14.7 I will richen it up a bit today and see if that helps. i will be looking for the maps. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 For the throttle body cars I think the best idle quality happens from 13-13.5 AFR, at least for mine. I get a jumpy engine at 14.5-15. If that doesn't improve it then look at ignition issues. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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