artinist Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 hey guys, for those of you who have been putting a lot of miles on this kits, pay attention. you should be checking the structural integrity of these housings. these housings were never meant to be used on the street like mentioned before many times. they are not made to withstand sever weather and bad road conditions and they will fail over time if done so. here is a case of failure on 88TSI_Rob's car. he noticed extra camber on one of his rear tires. the other side seems to be in ok condition so far. http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rearshock10pw.jpghttp://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rearshock29sw.jpg to quote Rob:"they have about 12-15K miles on them over probably the worst roads in the country". I have a few extra housings left and I am going to send it to him, however i suggested getting them powdercoated so they last longer. so be safe and make sure you check on them frequently especially if your car is in rust prone areas. once again, as you were made aware at time of purchase, these were not made for street use and I don't recommend using them on anything other than track car that doesn't encounter typical bad road condition on city streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 There's no issue like that with the GR2 struts is there?? I just bought 4 of them for the DSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitamincj Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Holy Crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitsusqueeshee Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 This is a little off topic, but would it be possible to make a set of rear housings by modifying a set of front housings? I was thinking of removing the spindles and welding on the proper flange. I got a set of Art coilovers second hand, and now I realize I need more dampening than what the tokiko blues provide. If this were possible, these would probably proove to be more rugged too? No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88TSI_Rob Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Here's what they look like off the car, basically the strut insert was the only thing holding them together. I should have taken a picture of the rear wheel, I had about 20 deg of camber! http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/1404/p10100364ye.jpghttp://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1817/p10100379fk.jpghttp://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3644/p10100420my.jpghttp://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3920/p10100436rr.jpghttp://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4185/p10100384om.jpg The crack follows the top edge of the weld, so I think it's a welding issue of some sort. Like the heat from the weld annealed the metal and it lost a lot of strength. Maybe someone with welding experience can comment. http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5963/p10100451nx.jpg This is the best picture I could manage of the inside, but it's clear to me that it didn't rust out. The inside just has some spotty surface rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 I did a search on a few DSM forums and couldn't find anyone having problems using these AGX for extended daily driving?? I even showed a couple guys these pics here. Seems like people have them in for years. Could this have been an isolated case at all?? One guy I knew long ago always armor all his shocks, take them right off a brand new vehicle and do that. Says they never rust then??? Didn't know what to think of that. Overkill or smart foresight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83_project_toy Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 thats a welding problem. used tomuch heat when welding it and caused the metal around the weld to become weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithTSI Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 has anyone make KYB aware of this? im sure theyd like to hear it, so if it is a actual prob, and not just an isolated case, it can be fixed. theres lotsa people who use KYB AGX for dailys, ive got em on my fiero, and theyve never done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MainstreaM Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Ok guys this is Art's kit for the inserts on the rear. This is not a KYB failure. The welding looks ok but I've seen better. One improvement that can be made is using DOM tubing(drawn over mandrel). It is on piece of steel that is forged into a pipe and is usually 95% pure. What is there is Seam welded, basically a flat plate that is rolled into a pipe and welded. Seam welded is usually made of recycled metals with no attention paid to strength classifications, also with lots of impurities since it is not intended to be under pressure or loaded with structural stresses. The wall thickness is pretty thin as well, that is the leading cause of failure. The weld has to be hot to get good penetration on the mounting flange but at the same time the weld is too hot for the tubing causing it to penetrate nearly the thickness of the tubing itself. Like Art said it will do the job if used occasionally without the bumps and potholes of common streets. Kane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88TSI_Rob Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 The wall thickness is pretty thin as well, that is the leading cause of failure. The weld has to be hot to get good penetration on the mounting flange but at the same time the weld is too hot for the tubing causing it to penetrate nearly the thickness of the tubing itself. That's an interesting point. If you look at the stock rear housing the flange is much thinner and stamped to give it strength, a lot less heat would be needed to weld the two pieces together. I believe the stock rear housings are seam welded as well, but it's a bit difficult to guage how the quality of the metal compares between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted June 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 yea this has nothing to do with with the shock insert regardless of brand. since corrosion doesn't seem to be an issue at this point, structural integrity of the other housing failed either due to a bad weld or that particular wheel must have gotten a beating from a pothole since the other housing is still good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
substock Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 since corrosion doesn't seem to be an issue at this point, structural integrity of the other housing failed either due to a bad weld or that particular wheel must have gotten a beating from a pothole since the other housing is still good. well here in pa we have miserable roads to deal with all year round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt W Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 This has me extremely concerned now since I have these parts, but un-installed. Another issue could be if the two metals are not of the same material. A pretty weld is not always a strong weld. I'll probably take my housings to a welding shop and have them evaluate them prior to install, just to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundzero Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 well how thick is that pipe 16ga i have agxs all the way around mine utlizing the factory tubes at all four corners and getting a 3/4" suspension drop and the factory tubes are like an 1/8th inch thick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Well it looks like mine are bad too. http://home.fuse.net/remo/artstrutbroke.jpg These were installed about a year ago and I've only put exactly 1,958 miles on them. Mostly street miles and 1 autocross event. The car hasn't been driven in 3 months and I went to take here out today when I heard a creakiing noise. I checked the rear suspension found the crack. I'll start pulling it apart to get a better look and check the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted June 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 are both of these on teh drivers side? i wonder if there is something related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 I think James is Passenger side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundzero Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 time to modify the rear ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88TSI_Rob Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Mine was on the pass. side as well. I was hoping mine issue was fluke...I guess not. time to modify the rear ones What is needed to use the AGX inserts with the stock rear housings? Is it just a spacer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 The stock rears are not inserts the whole strut is replaced. You would have to cut the top off, remove the guts and figure out how to seal the top back up. Could the failure be in the material used for the tube. Maybe go with a DOM tubing rather than a seam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 actually I was orignally trying to use a different material for these. unpurposely i had picked up some semi-stainless stuff. the problem was the machine shop almost kicked me out, saying I almost broke his lathe. the Tap wasn't able to grind the threads into the material so i had to get something softer. that was before I took the pipes to the welder for the brackets so I dumped them, keeping two that the guy had tried to TAP. Those two I sent to Rob, thinking it should last longer on the bumpy roads in his area. I did my best to try to persuade folks not to use these on the streets becuase its not like years of road testing went into the material strengths in different road conditions. I was actually thinking the upper jam nut area might be a point of failure but i guess the welding may have weakened the materail at that lower point. another thing that i can think of that might be contributing to this is that the AGX insert is shorter than the stock insert so its not going deeper into the housing and its stressing that area. the bottom of the insert is right there at the point of the bottom bracket. if there is other suggestions on building better housings I am sure we could use them. I did not make these to make money. in fact i lost money trying to make these handful of kits so the community could benefit from. if someone is willing to take a similar apprach and use the concept and perfect the idea, it would be great. its not a patented design or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Are the rear 1G AWD DSM struts similiar?? I have brand new AGX sitting here for my DSM but they are FWD and not the same for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Maybe add some gussets/more material in that lower/inner area of the housing(like some bikes have at the head tube/down tube area for strength)? From the pictures it looks like thats where the most stress is. Is it necessary to weld all the way around that flange? The flange gets bolted down to the hub carrier, which clamps down on the rest of the strut. Maybe it would be okay if it was welded in only afew places? Also, would it be possible for the strut insert to sit all the way at the bottom of the housing? I have Arts coil overs in the rear and it is lowered, but the low ride height blew out the stock struts. I was thinking if the strut is installed all the way to the bottom of the housing(instead of about an inch and a half from the bottom), it would keep the strut in its operating range and wouldnt bottom out(the rear would probably HAVE to be lower than stock). The housing itself may have to be shorter if its done this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted June 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Are the rear 1G AWD DSM struts similiar?? I have brand new AGX sitting here for my DSM but they are FWD and not the same for comparison. no, they won't fit. rear suspensions are pretty different from car to car. say the 240, dsm, supra, 300zx and ours are completly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Are the rear 1G AWD DSM struts similiar?? I have brand new AGX sitting here for my DSM but they are FWD and not the same for comparison. no, they won't fit. rear suspensions are pretty different from car to car. say the 240, dsm, supra, 300zx and ours are completly different. That sux. :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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