Skullzaflare Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Btw this is a rocker hitting http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a381/skullzaflare/AA73CD5E-4A32-47B0-8A63-06C87C0A4120-2382-0000037BDB102D9D_zpsa64275a2.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechengrkj Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 The intermittancy of the noise is what's baffling. I thought I had fixed it last night by clipping the baffles from the valve cover according to this post. No noise last night. Then I started it up this morning and started driving it to school and it starts doing it again. After getting to school I tried to see if I could figure out where it was coming from but sounds like the same location. I checked the warm oil pressure and it was at 20psi after I got to school (about 5 miles away). I'm running 10W30 at the moment. Talked to the machinist and he took 0.005" off the deck and didn't machine the head (sit at 3.362" overall height) so that shouldn't be an issue (if it were, it would knock all the time). Shouldn't be rod knock because it would happen more as the RPMs went up. I doubt it's the wrong size bearing because I would have low oil pressure (I put standard size bearings in it). Any other ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Looks like I need to provide a little more background info...I rebuilt the engine because I found metal flakes in the oil and discovered that the main and rod bearings were both hashed because the PO starved it of oil. My dad knows a guy who does a really good job with block work (who lives 400 miles away) who planed the deck, head and honed the cylinders. When inspecting the engine he found that the crank was pitted so we bought a new one and he machined it into spec. My dad then brought the engine up to me and we assembled it. We didn't check the tolerances because we have no way to check the tolerances and am working out of a garage that's really just a storage unit barely large enough to fit my car into. That being said, I need to specify a little better what the problem is. The knocking sounds ONLY happens at 2K rpm. The rest of the RPM range sounds fine. Could it still be rod knock? All the rest of the vitals seem fine. Oil pressure is at 90psi on my aftermarket gauge. AFR's are a little on the rich side but still fine. Now, with all this new info that I should have stated before, any suggestions? I read crank machined. but you installed std bearings, contact the machinist and ask again what size the crankshaft bearings are supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHARDmitsu. Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 "the main and rod bearings were both hashed because the PO starved it of oil." More than likely those rods are out of round. Did the shop re-size them? make it perfectly round again When you reassembled the block, by any chance did you mix up the rod bearing caps? Did the shop press on/off any pistons or rods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechengrkj Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 "the main and rod bearings were both hashed because the PO starved it of oil." More than likely those rods are out of round. Did the shop re-size them? make it perfectly round again When you reassembled the block, by any chance did you mix up the rod bearing caps? Did the shop press on/off any pistons or rods? The inner race of the bearings were damaged but they never spun, if that makes any difference. The shop did not resize them, but they checked them and said they were fine. I for sure didn't mix up any caps because they were stamped and engraved with the numbers for each one, and we triple checked that before installing. The shop didn't press on/off and pistons, rods, or rod bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 was the crank reground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 was the crank reground?This Also, is there a chance you may have installed any rod caps backwards? They will fit backwards but not good if so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechengrkj Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 was the crank reground? Did some checking. The machinist did not regrind the crank so the bearings should be correct. This Also, is there a chance you may have installed any rod caps backwards? They will fit backwards but not good if so We double checked and made sure that all the arrows were pointing to the front of the block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Did some checking. The machinist did not regrind the crank so the bearings should be correct. We double checked and made sure that all the arrows were pointing to the front of the block. How does one machine a crank to spec without machining it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsi_tom Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Did you take any pictures during the rebuild? Reason I ask is you could have installed the bearings incorrectly starving them of oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechengrkj Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 How does one machine a crank to spec without machining it? It was a misunderstanding. My dad had talked to him and then "remembered" what he had said. When I talked to the machinist directly, he clarified it. Did you take any pictures during the rebuild? Reason I ask is you could have installed the bearings incorrectly starving them of oil. No I didn't any pics. I didn't want to grease up my phone. I installed them according to the figure on page 9-62 in the FSM and had my friend double check them. http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w561/mechengrkj/FSM9-62_Diagram_zps79a0fd63.pngI put the grooved bearings on the block side of the crank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechengrkj Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 was the crank reground? My plastigauge will be here hopefully by Monday and I will check the clearances then. I had to order some because nowhere in town stocks any. Pretty lame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechengrkj Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) So I also noticed that the engine makes the same noise on cold startup for about 3 seconds and then stops. Sounds like this:http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w561/mechengrkj/th_2012D99C-DC64-44A2-A790-89A041D6AE9C-3652-000002C27CA6D9D2_zps598d9a6b.jpgFrom reading online, it sounds like that might be caused by a faulty timing chain tensioner. Sound about right? If that's the case, could that also be causing the same noise at higher RPMs? I also found this video on youtube that I think might be similar. The description says that the noise becomes apparent above 2k rpm.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhwS4E9Y-i4I also remember having a similar rattle on my 2006 Hyundai Sonata a couple years ago and turns out there was a recall on the timing chain tensioner. Edited November 13, 2013 by kylejones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topher87 Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 I had a rattle like that befor turned out it was the turbo to exhaust manifold bolts were loose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechengrkj Posted November 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 I had a rattle like that befor turned out it was the turbo to exhaust manifold bolts were looseDouble checked all those on Saturday so that's not it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Timing chain hitting is a far different tone, I know you keep hoping for the cheapest fix, but until you pull the pan.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87B71Brad Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 That's a rod knock...no way around it. Why..well looks like your gonna have to yank it to see. I wouldn't be driving it in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 number one thing place your hand on the valve cover and see if you FEEL the noise , and did you install arp studs if so the valve cover is hiting the left rear stud this can sound exactly like a rod knockwhat cam was installed ,, valve cover over tightened , eliminate these things before saying positively it's a rod knock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 number one thing place your hand on the valve cover and see if you FEEL the noise , and did you install arp studs if so the valve cover is hiting the left rear stud this can sound exactly like a rod knockwhat cam was installed ,, valve cover over tightened , eliminate these things before saying positively it's a rod knockI've never had a stud move up and down to knock on the valve cover Though if not trimmed you will pour oil onto the exhaust manifold when running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechengrkj Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 UPDATE: Pulled the oil pan tonight, found a nice pile of metal flakes in the oil. Pulled off the 4th cylinder rod cap and found the bearing totally chewed up. Mic'd the crank at that position and found it to be 2.0515". That should be 40 over right? Bearings are 10 over. Next, pulled the 4th main bearing cap and the bearing looked fined. Put in some plastigauge and it was .0015" wide. So I think I'm ok on the main bearings. I inspected the crank shaft where the bearings contact and looked very smooth and clean. I don't think the bearings damaged the crankshaft at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 UPDATE: Pulled the oil pan tonight, found a nice pile of metal flakes in the oil. Pulled off the 4th cylinder rod cap and found the bearing totally chewed up. Mic'd the crank at that position and found it to be 2.0515". That should be 40 over right? Bearings are 10 over. Next, pulled the 4th main bearing cap and the bearing looked fined. Put in some plastigauge and it was .0015" wide. So I think I'm ok on the main bearings. I inspected the crank shaft where the bearings contact and looked very smooth and clean. I don't think the bearings damaged the crankshaft at all. best check all rodsprobably egged the crank from running it, and warped the rod from slapping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Pull the engine, EVERYTHING needs cleaned out again. If it measures 2.0515 then it .035 under. No bearing made for that. Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechengrkj Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Ok so looks like I misread the micrometer. Using the instructions that came with it this time as reference. I measured 2.0765". Here is a picture of what I measured just so you guys can tell me if I read this correctly. http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w561/mechengrkj/F354C380-7008-45FA-92FC-C93E24EC6EE8-6593-00000544D8B7D177_zpsff3c005d.jpg That look right? So according to this measurement the crank is 010 under, right? Just trying to figure out exactly what needs to be done once I pull the engine again. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Tear it apart and find out where the debris came from, get crank check by a machinist, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechengrkj Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) Tear it apart and find out where the debris came from, get crank check by a machinist, I know where the debris came from. The rod bearings were hashed. Here is what the one that I pulled looked like. I am trying to figure out if the bearings were the correct size and if they were, why this happened. I'll look around and see if I can find a reputable shop locally. I haven't been too impressed with any mechanics here in the valley.http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w561/mechengrkj/E7D27100-FB1E-4081-B965-B06E170A45A1-6668-0000054F95319849_zps217716d5.jpg Edited November 19, 2013 by kylejones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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