Lost power from coil...

[bluzcruzer]

After reading the electrical section 4 times, reviewing the forums for 2 days, cleaning and testing the first set of fusible links, cleaning grounds...not all....some to go and replacing the coil, unfortunately with an accel, I'm getting a bit delirious. The car ran poorly at low idle previously to some upgrades....injectors, clips, turbo and an ignitor in the distributor. I should mention I had to reset the cam timing due thinking it was incorrect with the dowel at 1200. I have power on both sides of the coil but theres no intermittent breaks on either side...even with using the ignition switch. I had been just using the + side to hotwire it and using a remote. Before the cam retiming...it was at 120 psi warmed up, though I'm fairly confident I didn't tear it up trying to fire it afterward....not 100%....but reasonably sure......no big noises and still some compression....anyway, I checked the eci ignitor and took it apart...only some slight traces of water over a small part of it, otherwise clean and tidy...not anything I would consider a problem...since its coated right? It sounds like the injectors are firing when I power it up and with power to the coil, I'm wondering if its an ecu problem. I still need to clean the main ground on the block....and look for the one on the main harness under the intake. I did also have the etacs out with the battery tray for a reservoir replacement, though I did no cleaning or checking in there. I'm thinking I may have burned a circuit in the ecu and that going back into the etacs may not be necessary due its partial operation. I'm unsure of the condition of the diodes/resistors on the coil and tach assembly that I may have reversed polarity for a short bit at some point and don't know how to ck them. I've had this car going on 4 yrs and might have drove it down the driveway once....While I love challenges....this girl has been very challenging for most the time I owned it....I caught all that previous good info....only too late....the coil a good example.....I was just given a msd 6ez...brand new, but don't see the point trying to squeeze it in there yet since it gets its signal from the original coil...So there ya have it....a new challenge for today.....we'll spin the wheel and see who can peg it for bragging rights....and I know the talent out there. I'm constantly awed by what I learn here and am a bit annoyed I can go no further without throwing parts at it. 1988 Durban tsi....125k.....small 16g...650/850 injectors...clips....1 gmas on standby....87 blk buckets...new rubber...

[vbrad511]

First off, electrical problems will have NOTHING to do with compression. If you had 120 psi and now you have less you've got your cam timing off. Maybe not enough to cause permanent damage, but then again, maybe. You need to get this taken care of BEFORE you do anything else. Electrical gremlins can be a pain, but if you've bent valves resolving coil troubles won't get you any closer to on the road.

 

Look through this...

 

http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php?t=944

[JohnnyWadd]

So does it have spark or no?

[Shelby]

no mention of any volt or ohm readings,, the use of a volt/ohm meter is a MUST on this car,,

as for reading try the trouble shooting section on NO SPARK

[bluzcruzer]

No spark from the coil Johnny....power to it...nothing out. That is a great article (brad511) its a relief to know its a non-interference engine, I had thought the opposite. I only added the compression #'s as a general condition indicator...I'm aware there is no relation to my problem. I'm confident that the cam timing is correct. Dowel pin 1200 and cam gear timing mark 300. I do have concerns with timing chain and guide wear...though I was careful in keeping the chain tight on the clockwise rotation. The coil is a new accel so what else do I check with my meter? I have good power to the coil....just no interruption. Edited June 28, 2013 by bluzcruzer

[bluzcruzer]

I don't know where to find the power transistor.....and I proly wont worry about the pressure switch unless I find it related. I ck to see if there an index for location.

[vbrad511]

Again, spark, or lack thereof will have NOTHING to do with compression. Nada, Zero, Zilch. If your numbers are down, something went wrong. Sounds like you're going to need to pull the timing cover and start from scratch. If the timing/bs chains and guides have never been serviced it'll need done. Go here...

 

http://www.enginemachineservice.com/conquest.html

 

 

and order new timing components, a BSEK, a timing cover gasket, and an oil pan gasket. Do this thing right or the electrical issues you're fighting will be small change in comparison. Not meaning to harp here, but when i FINALLY got around to changing mine there was basically nothing left of the guides, and an inch of their remains, in powder form, in the oil pan. I'm surprised the thing hadn't grenaded.

 

It's an 88, and those later model igniters/knock boxes rarely fail. It does happen, just not common. Got me wondering if something's amiss with the pickup in the distributor. Have you taken apart the connections for the fusible link boxes where they plug into the harness? They get nasty there too sometimes.

[JAinsworth]

Does the tach jump when you try to start it? If you pull the coil wire off on the distributor end and place it close to metal, do you have spark there?

Jimmy

[bluzcruzer]

This girl was beat, so I'm going to rebuild it soon. Its has run with little noise internally, though only at low rpms. The primary injector was failed, so I bought upgrades along with new clips. The turbo was double failed, so I upgraded it. I replaced the ignitor in the distributor after having found it failed...is why no high revs. Now no fire from a new coil. I've since revisited the ignitor thinking I had put too much grease on it and gummed it up...that wasn't the case. I've tested the stator...it is good. Since the signal for the coil does come from the dist...maybe the ignitor I put in is bad. No point checking ohm or continuity on the neg pole...since it has good power....I was sure I checked that ignitor before installation....maybe I missed something. I'm trying to recall where I had found the test procedure for that dist. ignitor....might be vol1 diagnosis. So I'll finish cleaning the grounds, maybe revisit that dist....thx for the effort..

[bluzcruzer]

no spark jimmy, grounding the coil lead....I'll ck right now for tach bounce...No tach movement, at all.....so I either burnt the diode/resistors or the signal generator is grounding signal out to the stator...I am going after the main ground to the block now and I found the ground under the intake...so they'll get cleaned up first before I revisit the dist ignitor for another test there...I'll also pull those fuseables apart and ck those connections to the harness.......tho I did have continuity in each terminal and the links are good up top.....wish me luck Edited June 28, 2013 by bluzcruzer

[JAinsworth]

The tach not bouncing is an indicator that it isn't getting a signal to spark so you problem lies before the coil. You have the ecu, then an ecu relay located near it. From there you go to the ignitor. Those are the parts I would suggest you check out along with the wiring.

Jimmy

[03CL55AMG]

I am having the same issue...car ran great, whent to start it a week later nada...power to the coil nothing coming out...some good points brought up. Sorry Bluz not trying to jack your thread...just have the same wierd stuff going on, if I figure it out I will post what I found...good luck I will keep reading this post, for ideas.

[Shelby]

what works for one car works for all them as long as they are still oem ign,,

 

one thing some of you seem to miss,, power to the coil has little to do with the ign system other then to power up the coil , the neg side signal comes from the igniter (knock box)

so you realy only have 3 basic parts to the ign ,,the coil the dist pick up and igniter box , and wireing between them

 

all ign pulses come from the igniter box ( neg side of the coil wire ) the igniter is power by the ECU/main relay , so if you undid the coil neg wire and connected a test lamp to the wire and other end to batt posi , the lest lamp should flash each time the dist stator poles are shorted with a screw driver , you need to test the wires from dist to igniter plug for continueity , and also the ground shield wire for grounding out one of the dist pig tail wires

I have seen people tr=y to repair a dist connector and not know there is a ground shield wire in the harness and short out the entire dist pulse signal

 

also the igniter ground wire is super important cause with out it the igniter can not make a pulse signal for spark

[Bottomout]

I am having this prob to, but I am seeing the pulse to the - side of the coil. I have installed a new coil and still no fire. Any idea how this is possible?

[Shelby]

how do you know you have a neg side pulse ,, un do the neg wire from the coil place a 12 volt test lamp to it and the posi terminal of battery,, now spin engine does the lamp flash ,

if it does remove all wires except for the 1 neg wire , now check for spark , very rare but I have seen a sharted cluster printed circirt board, esp one with in board after market boost gauge , and a static suppressor ground out

[Bottomout]

I used a test light to see the pulse. Removed all wire except - and still no spark.

[Bottomout]

This car is about one day from being put on ebay... Im just about over it.

[Bottomout]

I found online that some mazdas have the same knock box e101. Anyone know what years and models they might be on?

[Shelby]

have you inspected the igniter connector for broken wires ( and remove sand and clean the igniter ground wire ) remove an inch or so of tape on the harness end and inspect for bad wireing , is any terminals dirty or green

 

disconnect the dist connector , use an ohm meter from dist housing to each wire and see if any are shorted,, not unplug the internal 2 wires and redo the test checking for continuity on both wires , I have found a lot of bad dist harnesss or pig tails ,, neather wire can show connection to the dist housing or each other but both wires need to show continuity for them selves and not to each other

 

this ignition system is very simple , too simple in fact that's why most guys over complicate testing it

[Bottomout]

I have checked everything and still no spark. I manually triggerd the coil to fire, and wala spark. I checked everythin 2-3 times. I am getting good voltage to to coil. And also seeing pulse to the - side, tach also bouncing. I am asuming the knock box is bad. Well it is now. I removed the front and the solder joints for the pins didnt look so hot. Also the back of the box was to hot to touch. I then tried to remove the back and broke the wires from the front board to the back one. I am really hoping another box does the trick. It is so depressing to spend thousands of dollars on parts to have it run for 45 min in the drive way the pull out onto the street and be dead in the water..

[03CL55AMG]

I know what you mean Bottomout...still trying to find the cure for the same problem...I did the testing like Shelby suggested and had no pulse with the coil neg wire hooked to test lamp...then I checked a few ground points and rechecked the pulse and had a ignition pulse...but no spark to the plugs. Then re-checked the ignition pulse again and nada..no pulse and yes it is very frustrating...if I find a cure I will post it

[Shelby]

if you get a good pick up coil reesistance reading and no short to the dist houseing on eather wire , and still no spark when stator poles are shorted with a screw driver tip like instructed in the fsm ,,99% sure it's wireing or a bad igniter , but remember you neeed tomake sure the ecu and main relay is being powered up,, check for power at tps and CTS and inj lead ,, if the ecu had no power you will not see any spark but the engine will still crank over

 

the ecu sends power to the igniter

[03CL55AMG]

Is it possible that the Ignition switch could have something to do with the no spark and sparatic ignition pulse...I am getting power to the coil so that makes me think that NO the ignition switch is good...just wondering.For those members that have had this problem before what was your cure ?.

[Bottomout]

I know what you mean Bottomout...still trying to find the cure for the same problem...I did the testing like Shelby suggested and had no pulse with the coil neg wire hooked to test lamp...then I checked a few ground points and rechecked the pulse and had a ignition pulse...but no spark to the plugs. Then re-checked the ignition pulse again and nada..no pulse and yes it is very frustrating...if I find a cure I will post it

 

I just order another box. I will let you know my results when it arrives.

[03CL55AMG]

Do you mean a knock box ? and if so where are you getting it from, thanks.