attack vector Posted May 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 I think Logically & theoretically I agree with Patra, and that's where the concern comes in. But after watching that excellent video that Convette posted (THANK YOU!!!!) I feel like the reality is that a huge amount of wheels out there on the road are lug-centric and they don't seem to be flying off cars left and right. So while theoretically the loads are probably greater and deferred exclusively to the lugs, the reality is that as long as the load is balanced and not over torqued, I should be just fine. Also I just thought of this... all the steelies that I looked at by all the various manufacturers were all for off-road use and racing. And they're all lug-centric... So I figure if the lug-centric configuration holds up to that abuse, then I should be fine? Though perhaps the intention is under that application, racers will be replacing wheel studs and checking hub assemblies after every race, so the intention was never for a long-term wheel solution to begin with. Still... I would LOVE the specs for our lugs so I can call up ARP and see if they make a stud that will fit. Also really appreciate any photos you can post Convette! I won't be able to work on my car and pull brakes off until this weekend. My schedule during the week is just too crazy to get any work done on the car :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 So while theoretically the loads are probably greater and deferred exclusively to the lugs, the reality is that as long as the load is balanced and not over torqued, I should be just fine. most likely. like I said, maybe we're being overly cautious. I run 13" lug centric steelies on my datsun and they haven't broke off yet. but, I haven't curb checked at 20mph yet either. The real concern for me, is that in the event of an accident, you want the wheel to bend, or the control arm to bend, and NOT for the studs to sheer. also, this talk reminded me of this haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 maybe we're confusing the language here. but when I say hubcentric, I mean that the hub not only locates the wheel on the axis but carries some load, since the wheel is always firmly butted against the hub-center.. lug centric the wheel center does not touch the hub center, therefore the studs are doing all the work. is there a flaw in that logic?No, I agree. It may carry some load, and theoretically yes I also think that its stronger, it makes sense . HOWEVER, the studs are doing all the work, in both situations. Reason being, once the wheel is located and the studs are tight you can theoretically subtract the hub ring and the wheel wont fall off, it will hold its position as long as all the studs are tight and correctly installed.. right? Right. Now if you put the wheel on, and take the studs out of the equation, the wheel falls off...right? Right. Therefor the hub bore doesnt really NEED to be there, and the wheels studs are always doing all the work. Bottom line, theres nothing wrong with lug centric wheels, they work and have worked for a really really long time! Things fail when ppl are stupid and over tighten,or dont tighten or whatever. I think Logically & theoretically I agree with Patra, and that's where the concern comes in. But after watching that excellent video that Convette posted (THANK YOU!!!!) I feel like the reality is that a huge amount of wheels out there on the road are lug-centric and they don't seem to be flying off cars left and right. So while theoretically the loads are probably greater and deferred exclusively to the lugs, the reality is that as long as the load is balanced and not over torqued, I should be just fine. Also I just thought of this... all the steelies that I looked at by all the various manufacturers were all for off-road use and racing. And they're all lug-centric... So I figure if the lug-centric configuration holds up to that abuse, then I should be fine? Though perhaps the intention is under that application, racers will be replacing wheel studs and checking hub assemblies after every race, so the intention was never for a long-term wheel solution to begin with. Still... I would LOVE the specs for our lugs so I can call up ARP and see if they make a stud that will fit. Also really appreciate any photos you can post Convette! I won't be able to work on my car and pull brakes off until this weekend. My schedule during the week is just too crazy to get any work done on the car :-/ yes they prolly are thoroughly checked often, as everyone should do anyways. I personally change tires prolly more than anyone on here, and check all components all the time. Everyone should double check everything from time to time. Sorry, no pics today, I left my phone at the house... Hopefully tomorrow. most likely. like I said, maybe we're being overly cautious. I run 13" lug centric steelies on my datsun and they haven't broke off yet. but, I haven't curb checked at 20mph yet either. The real concern for me, is that in the event of an accident, you want the wheel to bend, or the control arm to bend, and NOT for the studs to sheer. Bottom line you hit a curb at almost any speed your f-'d. weather your studs sheer or not, if your control arm is bent, your rim is f'd and you aint driving that shi+ away anyways! Say you understeer into a curb cause you have driftability, the 1/4 of hub that aligning your wheel aint gonna save your nuts. I'm sorry, lugs. That should be the least of your worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted May 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 I think the reality is that I'll be just fine if I get it balanced properly. Again that video was awesome! and now I know exactly what to ask for at the tire shop without sounding like an uninformed idiot. So thanks Again Convette! The car won't be subjected to nearly the same loads that a race car or full-time drift car is subjected to. Though I'm still on a mission to see if I can track down some hardened studs for our cars :-)I actually need to do a full brake job on my car and I just ordered a set of rotors and pads, so when I take everything apart this weekend or next, I'll be sure to take a full range of measurements from the stud bolts with a micrometer and post the specs. With luck I can call ARP directly and shoot them the specs and they can tell me if they either make a stud for our cars straight up... or if there is a stud for a different car that just happens to have the same specs. I'm sure there are a bunch of guys on here who would love a set of hardened wheel studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jszucs Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Here are the longer one's that arp makes that people have used with spacers ect. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-7712 You can atleast get all your other size demensions from there, and figure out what length you need. Search button is your friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w239/johnboy9788/20130503_082415_zpsd911ac40.jpg they arent pressed in, but I'm sure the ones posted will work. They are 11.95mm or 12 x 1.25 I believe. Double check the threads though before you order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmyers151 Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 I didn't read through the end here to see if you found them, but these are the part numbers another member used for his ARP studs:Front: 100-7712Rear: 100-7717 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted May 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 jszucs, Convette, dmyers151, THANK YOU GUYS! All of you. It's impossible for me to get anything done on my car during the week because I have a baby in the house. It also doesn't help that at night when I put him to bed his room is RIGHT ABOVE the garage... Hehehe. So no loud noises or tools allowed after dark. blargh. So it's awesome that you guys have helped to move stuff forward during the work week! I'm grateful! :-) I ordered a set of new brake rotors and pads that should arrive by early next week. I'm going to hold off on ordering studs to see if the new rotors change or influence the lug fitment. But all of this is exactly the info I've been trying to get! Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 also, get the E clips that keep the studs in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 Never seen those on a quest? Got a pic, or a reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 page 2-9 shows the stud snap-ring. http://www.starquestgarage.com/manuals/service/conquest/1986/86_conquest_service_manual_-_group_02_-_front_suspension.pdf they ensure the studs stay in in the event the knurls are warn (or in case you knock the studs loose when putting the wheel back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 Def would not run those with lug centric wheels. I would want the rear face of the wheel tight against the hub, not tight against those clips. Theses would essentially space out the wheels as if you put washers on the lug nuts?.. Thin as they may be... worthless parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Def would not run those with lug centric wheels. I would want the rear face of the wheel tight against the hub, not tight against those clips. Theses would essentially space out the wheels as if you put washers on the lug nuts?.. Thin as they may be... . yeah I agree. our wheels have clearance for the clips, but I forgot most aftermarket wheels don't. =( Edited May 6, 2013 by patra_is_here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jszucs Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 yeah I agree. our wheels have clearance for the clips, but I forgot most aftermarket wheels don't. =( Where do your wheels have clearnce for the clips? Mine have a flush face around mounting stud holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) serious? mine have about 2mm inset to clear the clips. i can post a pic later today Edited May 6, 2013 by patra_is_here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jszucs Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 serious? mine have about 2mm inset to clear the clips. i can post a pic later today Yes, my mounting faces are perfectly flush. They have the holes next to the mounting holes, but where the moutning holes are they are flush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted May 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 Yeah I was looking at the diagram and I thought it was odd that the safety clip was on the front face of the rotor? I wasn't sure if I was even reading the diagram correctly. Also that doesn't really seem like a real snap-ring. I think for a snap-ring to really be effective it would need to fit in to a machined groove in the back-face of the hub so it would fit on top of the head of the wheel stud, thereby retaining it? A lot of great info and exploration is coming out of this thread. Once I get the brakes, studs, and wheels fitted and all sorted, and I can post final conclusions & findings, I'll make sure I clean up all the info here and make a new thread for "ins & outs" of lug-centric wheels and see if we can get it pinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 the snap ring just fits over the threads on the studs. it's weird that some SQ's didn't have an allocation on the wheels for these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jszucs Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 I would still like to see 5 lug rims that have this grove in the mounting face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) never said it was a groove. said there was an inset. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7426/8719159626_222fe7fdb2.jpg Edited May 7, 2013 by patra_is_here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted May 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 The wheels shipped today! So figure early next week I should have them. Will update when they arrive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 tires already mounted?? if so you better post a pic the moment you have them on the car and the car sittin on the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 Updates? Lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creakyjoints Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 Pics? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts