Krank Vents....Too much Vaccuum?

[Caliber308]

Glad you chimed in, we had a talk about this catchcan/KV thing a while ago.

http://www.starquest...1

 

I run a Bigger than stock catch can with a slightly bigger bung coming out the back of the valve cover. Yes, its necessary to have the suction of the turbo aid in venting the crankcase rather than leaving it to vent when pressure becomes excessive.

Indi has been preaching this for the longest...

 

Catch can on a K.V. set up..... Just more money spent on something that is not needed. All it is going to accomplish is to take up space in your Engine bay

 

To the naysayers on installing a K.V. set up. First, they said that ALL your Engine seals would be sucked in. Second, they said that they don't do anything. Well, I guess I proved them wrong. Going on 7 years with them and they provide the vacuum needed for my set up and my Engine seals are just fine.

 

On a bit of history:

 

High lift camshafts will make your Engine suffer from a lack of vacuum. The higher the lift, the lower the Engine vacuum produced. This is important!!! because most of all, your power brakes run off of the vacuum provided (via the Engine vacuum). It doesn't matter if your running a V-8 or a 4 cylinder, I know from experience with both. The V-8 guys run Vacuum Pumps, not really a viable option on a 2.6lt Starquest....Too expensive and horsepower robbing with the added weight (most are belt-driven)!!! So, what is left? The KrankVent set up IS a option for those who suffer from a lack of vacuum. Otherwise, spend your money on a Vacuum Pump at appox. $300.00 to 500.00. K.V.s can be had for under $150.00. Most S.Q owners run between 20 to 22 inches of vacuum, With the K.V.s on my set up....16 to 17. What kind of vacuum without the KrankVents on my set up would I be running? Zero? Why do I run them? Upon first start up on my new rebuild in 2005.....NO VACUUM measured at the dipstick. How did I know this? Lit a cigarette and held it on the dipstick... "old school trick".No smoke was being sucked into the motor. Thus, no Engine vacuum was being shown.The choice is yours

 

P.S. I don't talk out of my a.., I give advice from my experiences

 

Bill

Edited July 25, 2012 by Caliber308

[Caliber308]

They are useless on a turbo motor.

 

Indy, even with a high lift camshaft?

 

Bill

[DieHARDmitsu.]

N/A motors have almost constant vacuum through out the power band. A K/V set up would be very useful on these.

On a turbo motor you have vacuum in the intake manifold at idle and cruise. What happens when the the manifold becomes pressurize under boost? How does the K/V function when there is no suction under load? It can't.

Thats why its best to run a catch can that is aided by the suction of the turbo to draw out crankcase pressure when its need most, under boost.

I've built over 12 g54bs and never had a dipstick pop on me or any other crankcase pressure issue.

If someone runs a K/V set up with a PCV/catch can as mentioned above^^^, it only serves as one more piece that can go bad, or get clogged for that matter.

For a stock or lightly modded motor, the factory crankcase ventilation system works well. On a highly modded build like my MPI/T4, .40 over, a larger catch can and OEM pcv works well.

[Caliber308]

N/A motors have almost constant vacuum through out the power band. A K/V set up would be very useful on these.

On a turbo motor you have vacuum in the intake manifold at idle and cruise. What happens when the the manifold becomes pressurize under boost? How does the K/V function when there is no suction under load? It can't.

Thats why its best to run a catch can that is aided by the suction of the turbo to draw out crankcase pressure when its need most, under boost.

I've built over 12 g54bs and never had a dipstick pop on me or any other crankcase pressure issue.

If someone runs a K/V set up with a PCV/catch can as mentioned above^^^, it only serves as one more piece that can go bad, or get clogged for that matter.

For a stock or lightly modded motor, the factory crankcase ventilation system works well. On a highly modded build like my MPI/T4, .40 over, a larger catch can and OEM pcv works well.

 

I tried a catch can on my set up. You know what it caught? Nothing. Now I just run a small breather off of the large K.V. with a short hose between them. Read my modifications. I also have a .040 engine with Forged Spherical 6 cc J.E. Pistons ( Sorry, you can't buy these anymore) So. Your telling me that my car doesn't run correctly? Or my K.V.s will get clogged up? I have run the same K.V.s for 7 years without ever having to clean them. Before you give advice again....Know what your talking about

 

 

 

Bill

[Caliber308]

N/A motors have almost constant vacuum through out the power band.

I've built over 12 g54bs

 

O.K. If you say so. When is the last time you built a N/A Engine with a High Lift Camshaft that had constant vacuum throughout the entire power band? "I'VE BUILT OVER 12 G54Bs"....So, Have you ever run into one that ran a K.V. Set up? Ever seen a KrankVent system? Ever seen a G54B that didn't have vacuum at start up?...I have seen ALL of these things. Not only on G54Bs, but on Small and Big Block V-8 engines with High-Lift Camshafts that were N/A engines as well. Talk is cheap. Experience isn't.

 

Bill

Edited July 25, 2012 by Caliber308

[lionbull]

 

I tried a catch can on my set up. You know what it caught? Nothing. Now I just run a small breather off of the large K.V. with a short hose between them. Read my modifications. I also have a .040 engine with Forged Spherical 6 cc J.E. Pistons ( Sorry, you can't buy these anymore) So. Your telling me that my car doesn't run correctly? Or my K.V.s will get clogged up? I have run the same K.V.s for 7 years without ever having to clean them. Before you give advice again....Know what your talking about

 

 

 

Bill

 

 

How many miles do you put on your car a year?

[Caliber308]

 

 

How many miles do you put on your car a year?

 

 

Appox. 2000 per year over the past 10 years. I don't drive it in the winter,rain or if there is a chance of severe thunderstorms. So now I get about 4 to 5 months out of the year in Montana to drive it. I also own three other vehicles that I drive on a normal basis, so it is not my only means of transportation. Kind of like a toy that I drive when I get the urge Since I bought it in 1989, 130,000 in 23 years.

 

Bill

Edited July 25, 2012 by Caliber308

[DieHARDmitsu.]

 

I tried a catch can on my set up. You know what it caught? Nothing. Now I just run a small breather off of the large K.V. with a short hose between them. Read my modifications. I also have a .040 engine with Forged Spherical 6 cc J.E. Pistons ( Sorry, you can't buy these anymore) So. Your telling me that my car doesn't run correctly? Or my K.V.s will get clogged up? I have run the same K.V.s for 7 years without ever having to clean them. Before you give advice again....Know what your talking about

 

 

 

Bill

 

Are you talking about these over priced POS check valves? makes a great paper weight by the way

http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss25/squaddy11/DSC01800.jpg

 

Sure I've tried them and know people who have too. Don't go assuming things friend, and yeah these KV suck,well only at idle and on part cruise

Its cool n all when there is vacuum in a crankcase at ilde using Krank Vents but that don't really matter. What matters most is under boost.

 

You still haven't answered my question "How does the K/V function when there is no suction under load?" when the smaller KV closes.

Well, let me answer it for you, under boost your crankcase becomes more pressurized and solely rely on a 1/2 port at the back of the valve cover to vent as even more pressure builds, coming up through the front of the motor, between the timing cover and block. That ain't very smart is it?

 

Here is the factory crank ventilation system on my daily driver.

http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss25/squaddy11/DSC01801.jpg

To the lower right corner, there is a 90 degree hose that goes from the valve cover to the shared intake pipe of the two turbos.

I suppose those Toyota engineers who built the mighty 2jzgte are tarts and those who run Krank Vents are geniuses

 

And yeah I've built a few engines other than the g54b, even though I'm still the noob , You know what they say about Assuming

 

"Read my modifications. I also have a .040 engine with Forged Spherical 6 cc J.E. Pistons"

I'm looking at the specs in your signature, man you're still running TBI with a td05?

Edited July 25, 2012 by DieHARDmitsu.

[Indiana]

The point of a separator isn't to capture oil. Its there in case you have to capture oil and its a necessary connection back to the compressor inlet.

[CaliConquestAlex]

Ok. I think I understand the reason for the connection from the port on the rear valve cover to the turbo inlet. I'm actually going to take the advice and get a catch can in order to perhaps catch any oil from the valve cover so it doesn't go into the turbo. I plan on installing a fitting in the end cap of my cone air filter which will connect to the hose from the catch can, rather than using an air intake pipe with a fitting. I'll provide pics when I get around to doing it. Seems like it'll be the best of both worlds...krank vents for off boost vacuum and vacuum pulled under boost from the turbo inlet.

[StarquestRescue]

 

 

 

High lift camshafts will make your Engine suffer from a lack of vacuum. The higher the lift, the lower the Engine vacuum produced. This is important!!! because most of all, your power brakes run off of the vacuum provided (via the Engine vacuum). It doesn't matter if your running a V-8 or a 4 cylinder, I know from experience with both. The V-8 guys run Vacuum Pumps, not really a viable option on a 2.6lt Starquest....Too expensive and horsepower robbing with the added weight (most are belt-driven)!!! So, what is left? The KrankVent set up IS a option for those who suffer from a lack of vacuum. Otherwise, spend your money on a Vacuum Pump at appox. $300.00 to 500.00. K.V.s can be had for under $150.00. Most S.Q owners run between 20 to 22 inches of vacuum, With the K.V.s on my set up....16 to 17. What kind of vacuum without the KrankVents on my set up would I be running? Zero? Why do I run them? Upon first start up on my new rebuild in 2005.....NO VACUUM measured at the dipstick. How did I know this? Lit a cigarette and held it on the dipstick... "old school trick".No smoke was being sucked into the motor. Thus, no Engine vacuum was being shown.The choice is yours

 

Bill

How does vacume in the crack case increase vacume in the intake? Or do you have your brake booster connected to the dip stick tube?

[Caliber308]

 

 

"Read my modifications. I also have a .040 engine with Forged Spherical 6 cc J.E. Pistons"

I'm looking at the specs in your signature, man you're still running TBI with a td05?

 

So, what does running a TBI and a TDO5H have to do with KrankVents? I don't wish to run MPI, nor do I want to install a Larger Turbo, and neither do a lot of other members. Soooooo, do you think their cars along with mine are JUNK because of that? My car has run just fine with the K.V. Set up for 7 years now. If it " Sucked in the Engine seals, like some K.V. opponets suggested it would or suffered from a lack of vacuum at Idle" I would be one of the first members to post that. Just because you couldn't get them to work, or didn't know how to set them up properly....Is not my fault. You don't see me posting problems with my car Could it be because I set the ENTIRE car up the proper way Your posting questions here ALL THE TIME for help.....Why?

 

Bill

Edited July 28, 2012 by Caliber308

[Caliber308]

How does vacume in the crack case increase vacume in the intake? Or do you have your brake booster connected to the dip stick tube?

 

 

And why does my car run trouble free the way it is set up? The car sits for 6 months out of the year but fires up and runs the same as the day I parked it. You tell me what i'm doing wrong Everybody else seems to think I give bad advice

 

Bill

Edited July 28, 2012 by Caliber308

[DieHARDmitsu.]

 

So, what does running a TBI and a TDO5H have to do with KrankVents? I don't wish to run MPI, nor do I want to install a Larger Turbo, and neither do a lot of other members. Soooooo, do you think their cars along with mine are JUNK because of that? My car has run just fine with the K.V. Set up for 7 years now. If it " Sucked in the Engine seals, like some K.V. opponets suggested it would or suffered from a lack of vacuum at Idle" I would be one of the first members to post that. Just because you couldn't get them to work, or didn't know how to set them up properly....Is not my fault. You don't see me posting problems with my car Could it be because I set the ENTIRE car up the proper way Your posting questions here ALL THE TIME for help.....Why?

 

Bill

 

 

And why does my car run trouble free the way it is set up? The car sits for 6 months out of the year but fires up and runs the same as the day I parked it. You tell me what i'm doing wrong Everybody else seems to think I give bad advice

 

Bill

And how hard is it to install 2 check valves? Limiting the vacuum on the suction side and letting the other just sit there with a mushroom filter requires

rocket science Krank Vent sucks! get over it!

 

I ask questions, post answers and share ideas just like so many other members. This is a car forum where one persons don't know it all ...well, except for those who have over inflated egos due to their $120 check valve :lol:

Edited July 28, 2012 by DieHARDmitsu.

[Metric-man]

Devices like the Krank Vents since they are relatively new in their application sometimes are misrepresented, they seem to work for some and not work for others.

 

There are a few reasons why they do not work, and one is application.

For example if your modifications include other devices that collectively expel or recirculate engine aspirations, those devices need to be adjusted to work in cooperation, to avoid redundancy.

 

The second reason is error in installation, because they are symmetrical in appearance they can be installed in the opposite (wrong) direction.

 

The third reason is Krank Vents occasionally fail because of the two above reasons and the internal

Materials are overcome by stress exerted from reverse pressure.

 

Now if they cannot be pressurized from one direction they have to be repaired.

They are not easy for most to repair but I believe they can be returned for repair or exchanged,

as long as they have not been cosmetically or structurally abused.

 

They have been designed in different sizes to for them to be adaptable to different configurations and resistances to their relative diameters, but most people fail to recognize their usefulness simply because they regard them as a band aid instead of a useful tool.

 

So like most inanimate objects they are blamed for their short comings instead of the application and intent of the person using them.

 

To be used properly it is necessary to understand what, where, and how your engine is aspirating,

and through the process of aspiration how and why you want to control it.

 

It’s not rocket science but, to be properly used there needs to be a simple understanding in the physics of your engine.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

I'm still waiting for an answer as to how a KV vents the crankcase efficiently and effectively under boost.

 

If you take a car with a KV system to the track or just flooring the gas pedal from a stop light until you reach the highest gear and revs, it will be under boost for almost that entire period. The Krank Vent check valve that replaced the stock PCV will be closed during that time since it only works under vacuum.

The check valve mounted at the back of the valve cover will be the only means to vent the internal pressures of the engine . The rate at which this valve vents would be the same as having no check valve in place since its only letting the pressure out; pressure in the crankcase is always looking for a way out, the moment the engines fires up. Is a 1/2 port and a one way valve good enough to vent the entire crankcase under a hard run?

 

The smaller KV check valve( intake side) can be tweaked with a regulator or a restrictor to have the right amount of vacuum at idle and part cruise; however, there is no method suggested by "ET Performance" or any of you that can amplify the rate of venting crankcase pressure under boost when using the larger KV check valve on the rear valve cover port.

Utilizing the suction of the turbo under boost to vent crankcase pressure is far more effective than just waiting for it build then pour out through a one way check check valve.

[NotStock88]

I had a kv kit installed for a few years with TB, stock cam, 16g at 20psi it was perfectly fine - I did just as Caliber explained and I had no issues.

 

I kept the same kv after I changed to mpi, large lift 292 cam, went with a t4 header/turbo and started running higher boost (still have stock block) - at this point i started having issues with dipstick blowing out.

I removed the rear kv, drilled out/tapped the rear port to -10an and ran a hose straight from the v/c to the new (larger) greddy oil catch can - and now my dipstick has stopped blowing out. From what I have gathered from my personal experience is that if you increase the amount of pressure your crankcase builds, you need to upgrade the size of the ports being used to vent that pressure and make sure there are no restrictions.

[StarquestRescue]

I had a kv kit installed for a few years with TB, stock cam, 16g at 20psi it was perfectly fine - I did just as Caliber explained and I had no issues.

 

I kept the same kv after I changed to mpi, large lift 292 cam, went with a t4 header/turbo and started running higher boost (still have stock block) - at this point i started having issues with dipstick blowing out.

I removed the rear kv, drilled out/tapped the rear port to -10an and ran a hose straight from the v/c to the new (larger) greddy oil catch can - and now my dipstick has stopped blowing out. From what I have gathered from my personal experience is that if you increase the amount of pressure your crankcase builds, you need to upgrade the size of the ports being used to vent that pressure and make sure there are no restrictions.

Bingo, at some point the crank vent becomes a restriction to the blow by getting out of the engine. Cal's engine is still fresh and he does not push it hard, there for not much blow by. At some point excessive blow by is an indication the engine is getting tired and may need rebuilt.

[Technology]

If you use the usable range of RPM available to you, there will be pressure generated by the engine doing its thing. It's not just for race cars. All cars can benefit from lower crank case pressures. If you are very concerned about it, purchase a big vacuum pump and hook it up to the upper balance shaft cover plate.

[NotStock88]

If you use the usable range of RPM available to you, there will be pressure generated by the engine doing its thing. It's not just for race cars. All cars can benefit from lower crank case pressures. If you are very concerned about it, purchase a big vacuum pump and hook it up to the upper balance shaft cover plate.

that is a very good idea! I was thinking that since my oil return is now at the oil pan, i can run a hose from the oil drain port on timing cover -directly to a vacuum pump.

[Technology]

I have a catch can plumbed to that spot and it fills up with oil. I don't have a return line for the can which I should.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

I had a kv kit installed for a few years with TB, stock cam, 16g at 20psi it was perfectly fine - I did just as Caliber explained and I had no issues.

 

I kept the same kv after I changed to mpi, large lift 292 cam, went with a t4 header/turbo and started running higher boost (still have stock block) - at this point i started having issues with dipstick blowing out.

I removed the rear kv, drilled out/tapped the rear port to -10an and ran a hose straight from the v/c to the new (larger) greddy oil catch can - and now my dipstick has stopped blowing out. From what I have gathered from my personal experience is that if you increase the amount of pressure your crankcase builds, you need to upgrade the size of the ports being used to vent that pressure and make sure there are no restrictions.

Bingo, at some point the crank vent becomes a restriction to the blow by getting out of the engine. Cal's engine is still fresh and he does not push it hard, there for not much blow by. At some point excessive blow by is an indication the engine is getting tired and may need rebuilt.

A larger port on the rear of the valve cover and an oversize catch can connected to the inlet on my T4 works well for me too. And this is on a fairly new build with good sealing/compression.

On a mild upgraded set up like a 16g & TBI, the stock system with a good PCV does a fine job providing that you're not running any ridiculous amount of boost.

If running an aftermarket intake(turbo inlet tube with filter) instead of the stock accordion hose, you need to make sure that the bung/port for the hose coming out of the catch can is close to the turbo's compressor inlet. The suction produced by the compressor wheel helps to relieve crankcase pressure at a faster rate. As you increase boost, the suction at the turbo's inlet also increases; this makes the catch can method very efficient.

Edited July 30, 2012 by DieHARDmitsu.

[NotStock88]

A larger port on the rear of the valve cover and an oversize catch can connected to the inlet on my T4 works well for me too. And this is on a fairly new build with good sealing/compression.

On a mild upgraded set up like a 16g & TBI, the stock system with a good PCV does a fine job providing that you're not running any ridiculous amount of boost.

If running an aftermarket intake(turbo inlet tube with filter) instead of the stock accordion hose, you need to make sure that the bung/port for the hose coming out of the catch can is close to the turbo's compressor inlet. The suction produced by the compressor wheel helps to relieve crankcase pressure at a faster rate. As you increase boost, the suction at the turbo's inlet also increases; this makes the catch can method very efficient.

AND BINGO WAS HIS NAME-O LOL

[Caliber308]

I'm still waiting for an answer as to how a KV vents the crankcase efficiently and effectively under boost.

 

If you take a car with a KV system to the track or just flooring the gas pedal from a stop light until you reach the highest gear and revs, it will be under boost for almost that entire period. The Krank Vent check valve that replaced the stock PCV will be closed during that time since it only works under vacuum.

The check valve mounted at the back of the valve cover will be the only means to vent the internal pressures of the engine . The rate at which this valve vents would be the same as having no check valve in place since its only letting the pressure out; pressure in the crankcase is always looking for a way out, the moment the engines fires up. Is a 1/2 port and a one way valve good enough to vent the entire crankcase under a hard run?

 

The smaller KV check valve( intake side) can be tweaked with a regulator or a restrictor to have the right amount of vacuum at idle and part cruise; however, there is no method suggested by "ET Performance" or any of you that can amplify the rate of venting crankcase pressure under boost when using the larger KV check valve on the rear valve cover port.

Utilizing the suction of the turbo under boost to vent crankcase pressure is far more effective than just waiting for it build then pour out through a one way check check valve.

 

Read post nos. 40 and 41. What works for some, doesn't work for others. My point was that if your running a High-Lift camshaft and suffer from low engine vacuum.....The K.V. Set up worked for my application and is a hell of a lot cheaper than installing a belt driven Vacuum Pump ($300.00 to $500.00). I tried a Catch can with a small breather on top of the canister (via a hose) from the large K.V. ....IT CAUGHT NOTHING!!! Also, making the statement that "K.V.s don't work, or they are just oversized PCV Valves" is just plain ludicious. Maybe that position was taken by the poster because of the lack of knowledge about KrankVents ?? All of my comments in this entire thread are from real life experiences with this engine, trying different combinations until I found one that worked for me. You can either take my comments as experience dealing with these engines or dismiss them. The choice is yours to make. P.S. I do run my engine hard at times: 7000 rpms and 20 psi boost. This is for the newer members......Not recommended, unless you have the motor built for this and all the proper modifications are in place to achieve it.

 

Bill

Edited July 31, 2012 by Caliber308

[Indiana]

I have a catch can plumbed to that spot and it fills up with oil. I don't have a return line for the can which I should.

If you have a drain, it needs a check valve in it. Some oil will come out that port in the timing cover from the chains and just from the pressure escaping and that's why I put an inverted valve cover breather on it so that oil self drains and doesn't get to the main separator. That will also catch any heavy oil from the valve cover and send it to the timing cover instead of reaching the main separator. I used 1" hoses to the separator, that slows the flow down so it won't carry the oil mist like a tiny OEM hose will. That was with a crankscraper too.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/BE1/IM002456.JPG

Edited August 1, 2012 by Indiana