Skippy Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Has anyone used a water cooled intercooler from frozenboost.com? If so, where did you mount the water tank? Is there any advantage to that over say a 4" aluminum one that is being offer as a bolt on for our cars by another source? Also, being that I am going MPI and do not want to move my battery or AC, do I need to go with an intercooler with a bottom/side exit for pipe routing purposes or will the top mount still work fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 If you remove or relocate the washer fluid tank which is under the battery, you can route piping under the batter and up to the throttle body without removing anything else. You'd need a side-exit intercooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 You are talking about an air/water intercooler as opposed to an air/air intercooler. I run an air/water on my MPI car, it has huge advantages in pressure drop (dramatically lower) at the expense of overall efficiency and ease of installation. Also, don't fall for a thicker core if you're going air/air, the efficiency gain over the volume increase is minimal, its a marketing thing and schoolyard macho thing (my core is thicker than yours!). Read Corky Bell's MAXIMUM BOOST and decide for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Read Corky Bell's MAXIMUM BOOST and decide for yourself. X2 Scott, what water core did you go with? I'm still researching what core I'm going to run in the flatty. Any suggestions? Also, what size heat exchanger are you using(if any)? I forgot where I read it, but it says to have a minimum of around 256 square inches of surface area. Edited April 10, 2012 by SFBMX88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Maximum boost was written nearly 20 years ago, by the way. A lot of things have come and gone since then. 2.0 liter engines are making what his v8 stuff was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 There is still plenty of info in that book that still hold true today though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 If you want a more recent reference, Jeff Hartman's Turbocharging Performance Handbook (2007, published by MBI Publishing in Minneapolis, MN and printed in China, what a coincidence!) goes into intimate detail and painful calculations to arrive at the same conclusions. For an air to air intercooler of any given size and efficiency, increasing the volume by 10% does not increase efficiency by 10%, only the small fraction of that heat not removed in the first place, therefore increasing the size is a loosing battle in pressure drop and efficiency that takes longer for the compressor to fill. I run this one http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=218&products_id=203&osCsid=ece31ba1b5433bf941654e5f5b651799 Another Houston Starquester runs the next size up, same configuration but he has to mount it at an angle to get it to fit under the hood. Here's a pic of mine: http://picturehosting.com/images/oblique9881/photo.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted April 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Nice. Did you mount the radiator where the IC typically is?Would you say this has been an improvement over the stock? They say that the water cool is beneficial for cars that will be sitting (like at a drag strip) and the Air/Air would be better for cars on the move (daily driver) as the amount of air moving across the IC does a great job. But nobody seems to over hard #'s to show any of this. I personally would like to see Air temp measurements before and after the IC's to see which is actually better at lowering the intake temp as that is 100% the point in these and yet no one shows the facts, only the amount of PSI lost. I did see one SQ that had only "barrel cooler" running across the front of the engine as your piping is. Assume it did the job or they wouldnt leave it there, but you never know with some people. Edit: What would be really interesting to see is a water cooled intake on the actual manifold. (not like what we have now, but for the air itself) Edited April 10, 2012 by Skippy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Edit: What would be really interesting to see is a water cooled intake on the actual manifold. (not like what we have now, but for the air itself) Excellent idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted April 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Excellent idea! I would think it would help cool it down even more over the IC and would hopefully help with the heat soak from the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Found it: "We recommend a radiator as used on small automobiles with a minimum surface area of at least 260 sq. inches." http://www.turboneticsinc.com/node/83 I would think it would help cool it down even more over the IC and would hopefully help with the heat soak from the head. http://stblogs.motortrend.com/files/2007/11/7371681.jpeg http://blog.stillen.com/wp-content/gallery/misc/stillen_370z_g37_supercharger_intake_manifold_3D_rendering_angle1_450.jpgPerhaps if you had something similar to the Stillen intake above, and mate it to the lower portion of a Magna manifold? Would you use the actual engine coolant to cool the charge air, or would you have a separate water circuit for the intercooler? Edited April 11, 2012 by SFBMX88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Now that is what I'm talking about! I would imagine it would be separate. I know the add-on ones dont have you tie in to the cooling system of the car and recommend against using anti-freeze unless you must. Big question is, where is that big ice box going to go in our engine bays? That place is already pretty cramped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 If you like 200 degree air, then you can pipe it in from the engine coolant. If not, you use a seperate system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) Now that is what I'm talking about! I would imagine it would be separate. I know the add-on ones dont have you tie in to the cooling system of the car and recommend against using anti-freeze unless you must. Big question is, where is that big ice box going to go in our engine bays? That place is already pretty cramped! Remote box/reservoir in the back! What pump would you use though? I see frozenboost sells the Bosch pump rated at around 317 GPH(5.3 GPM), but I have seen a Subaru setup using a Meziere pump rated at around 1200 GPH(20 GPM). The Meziere WP136S seems to be an upgrade with the Cobra and Lighting owners. http://www.iwsti.com...r-ic-build.html Pumps. If there's any place to be a tight wad this isn't it. A high quality purpose made pump with extra flow capacity is a must. The norm is to use plastic bilge pumps that have an open flow rate of 5-10gpm or so. While that may be sufficient the part they don't tell you is that in this application they cannot be run continuously. They have to be boost activated and only come on under positive manifold pressure. What this means is that while your cruising the core and the water in it are heatsoaking to a pretty high temperature. As soon as you step on it the water starts flowing but the temps are still very high. The temps won't come down as fast as one might think either due to the core being hot as well. The water has to cool the core and the charge air at the same time. If the core is at a cool temp with a constant flow system the only heat that has to be removed is from the charge air. I liken it to using a fire extinguisher after the fire is already out. A step in the right direction is the Bosch pumps that are OEM on the Ford Lightning, Cobra and the GT. These are good pumps that are readily available, relatively inexpensive and move about 12gpm free flow. They will stand up to constant operation as long as they are down stream of the exchanger not subjected to high fluid temps. They have to be mounted at the low point of the system to maintain a prime. The best option and the one I went with is what alot of the Lightning and Cobra guys upgrade they're pumps to which is the Meziere WP136S pump. Constant flow, 20gpm, full ball bearing, billet impeller, rebuildable, 3000+ hour service life, set up for AN fittings and not very cheap. Edited April 12, 2012 by SFBMX88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuze Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I'm wondering if with the completixty of the water/air IC, you could get better numbers with a decent air/air IC and a water injection setup. Same amount of real estate is used up for the pump and tank, more flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TainterRacing Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I would stick to Air to Air myself a Air to water is better when your cooling the water. With like ice or some other way to cool the water. I have run a HUGE IC for some years and I dont think I have ever seen more then 8f over out side temps. This is with a larger turbo and that will help alot as well. Now if you want to go all out like for Drag racing. you can use dry Ice and coolent and get your air to water ic working very well. you can get the temps well below the outside temps. But for a daily driver I would not bother with it. But its up to you. They can work well but not sure its worth all the extra work. Edited April 23, 2012 by TainterRacing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuze Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I would stick to Air to Air myself a Air to water is better when your cooling the water. With like ice or some other way to cool the water. I've really only ever seen them at the dragstrip, guys pouring ice water into them and icing them down in the staging lanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TainterRacing Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) I bealive some OEM ones use the A/C to cool them. And they get more power even tho they run the a/c all lthe time. As at WOT it shuts off. Ice water is for wimps LOL use coolent and dry ice!!! LOL Edited April 27, 2012 by TainterRacing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 If you have access to e85, run it. It will cool your charge air just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted April 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I bealive some OEM ones use the A/C to cool them. And they get more power even tho they run the a/c all lthe time. As at WOT it shuts off. Ice water is for wimps LOL use coolent and dry ice!!! LOL Not sure how that would work out in a closed system or with coolent but have you ever put dry ice in a 2 liter bottle and then added a little water before tightly sealing the cap? Doing so and putting it in a sewer with a half filled 55gallon trash can on top of the 50lb lid resulting in both being blown about 10ft in the air after about 10mins of pressure build up in that bottle. That and the neighbor called the cops after hearing a huge "explosion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted April 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 If you have access to e85, run it. It will cool your charge air just fine. What is needed to make that conversion in a MPI system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 What is needed to make that conversion in a MPI system?Injectors about 30% bigger. 750-1000's would be good for about 300-400 hp. I made 350 on a 1050/2000 combo tbi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TainterRacing Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 No you don't put it in it. You more or less have the tank installed in a cooler and then you put the dry ice around the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted April 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 No you don't put it in it. You more or less have the tank installed in a cooler and then you put the dry ice around the tank. Got ya.... the way I was thinking was certainly more entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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