Sixth sense, have you ever.....

[Caliber308]

you turned a positive and inquisitive conversation into a "I am right, and you are wrong" debate, that is detestable. You did bring substance to the conversation, it consisted of this:

 

 

 

 

I'm not even arguing the topic here, it's about how to handle yourself in a crowd with differing opinions. there, you seem to be lacking something. Is it respect? is it ability to adapt? is it something else? I really don't know.

 

Well.........Maybe not just yet

 

Bill

[chiplee]

you turned a positive and inquisitive conversation into a "I am right, and you are wrong" debate, that is detestable. You did bring substance to the conversation, it consisted of this:

 

 

Look, there are sensible things and nonsense things. Maybe if more people just called a spade a spade we wouldn't have so many people making it all the way into adulthood thinking they're "entitled" to be taken seriously for their "opinions" that are born of nothing other than how things seem to them. Again, I'm not here to shield adults from the truth. The fact that they expect to be shielded is telling, but it's not my problem. I have more respect for people than that.

 

 

I'm not even arguing the topic here, it's about how to handle yourself in a crowd with differing opinions. there, you seem to be lacking something. Is it respect? is it ability to adapt? is it something else? I really don't know.

 

It's a different view of what it means to actually respect people. I respect you more than most people you know. It just looks different than what you're used to.

[Chad]

 

It is an axiom of science that all knowledge is tentative and provisional. Science is UTTERLY open to revision and is continuously updated as more evidence is collected.

 

So by this, everything you believe is an educated opinion, not fact? You can't have it both ways. Otherwise you should have said :

 

Sorry, but I think this is all nonsense. I think None of you are psychic or clairvoyant. I don't think You have a sixth sense. It is all coincidence in my opinion, and a well understood tendency of the human brain to seek out patterns in things, even where none exist.

 

Seems it's not that yourr words are detestable, it's how you choose them.

[chiplee]

 

So by this, everythin you believe is an educated opinion, not fact? You can't have it both ways. Otherwise you should have said :

 

 

 

Sem it's not that yourr words are detestable, it's how you choose them.

 

Ok, sure. I could have added the word "think" to soften it up a bit, but to me it's just implied that it's my opinion. I mean isn't it always implied when a person says anything that they're just stating their opinion? Pointing it out would feel redundant to me. That's why I'm always saying if you don't agree with what I say just post your rebuttal. Things that can be "rebutted" aren't fact. They are opinion, however well formed or well reasoned. Only irrefutable things are fact.

Edited December 24, 2011 by chiplee

[Chad]

No, it's not implied. That is where you arguments cause descent.

[chiplee]

No, it's not implied. That is where you arguments cause descent.

 

But it is. It should always be assumed that a person talking about something is stating their opinion about that thing, whether they preface with "In my opinion..." or not. "It looks like rain today," for example, is a statement of opinion. Even, "I KNOW there is a God," is a statement of opinion. It has to be because of the very nature of knowledge. Unless the statement is about an empirical reality like, "my wife is a blonde," or "two plus two is four," then the person is stating an opinion. It really does go without saying in all cases. That's just how it is.

 

Saying things "gently" or pointing out that something is "just your opinion" is a manipulative conversational technique designed to "persuade" people to listen to you by suggesting to them that you're not decided on the matter. It is no surprise that when I remove it from my writing, people are taken aback. We're SOOO used to it in everyday life that we've come to expect it, but be sure, it is deceptive at its core. It is a classic "butter up", and again, I have too much respect for you to butter you up.

Edited December 24, 2011 by chiplee

[Tman]

WOW all i can say is Merry CHRISTmas to everyone

[Shelby]

i find this thread very amuseing ,, as for the 6th sense thing most of you think you are in control of your body and your thinking at all times but the truth is , thats not true,, your subcounsious mind does almost all the work for you , you notice small things but your mind sees things you never take a 2'd glance at , look at it like this your walking thru life seeing life # 30 frames per sec but your mind is seeing and hearing , feeling and smelling the world is super fast mode , and is able to make instant decisions with out you ever being aware of it doing so , your walking down the street and in front of you is a nice young thing and all you see in the world is those buns , bounceing up and down, but your subconouse mind sees every thing and hears every thing,, it see's the

hole in the side walk and adjusts your stride without you even being aware of it , it sees things in your prorifical vision that you do not but it registers the kids on the bike thats going to run you over and stops you just in time ,

 

this is simple things but millions of decisions are made by your brain every second that you are not aware of , and every so often they just may save your life , not every one is the same , some people are more aware of their world arround them then others ,

 

and Chip you are doing the exact same ting these other guys are but in a diff way,, just because some one writes some thing in no way means it's 100% truth , they base their beliefs on what some one wrote in a book you base yours on what others have writen in papers or letters ,,the end result is the same

 

put it this way i hope you alow your daughter to beleave in the Easter Bunny,,the Tooth fairy , Santa Clause etc

these things may not be the truth but they do have a usefullness in rounding out an adults life and beliefs , it's good to be a child , esp a happy one , they don't stay young very long

[Chad]

your high expectations of the rest of us don't leave much room for our humanity, or for our individual interpretations of your communications. Who needs to change, all of us? or you?

 

Surely you'll say all of us needs to change, but life doesnt' work that way.

[chiplee]

Shelby, the difference is that all of my reading and studying leads me to admit that I DO NOT know the answers to life's big questions. All I ever argue for is for people to admit they don't know. Instead, most people study very little and conclude that they know how the universe came into existence.

 

Oh and great points about our cognition. I especially liked the bits about our peripheral vision and subconscious. There is very good research suggesting that you are dead on about that.

Edited December 24, 2011 by chiplee

[chiplee]

your high expectations of the rest of us don't leave much room for our humanity, or for our individual interpretations of your communications. Who needs to change, all of us? or you?

 

Surely you'll say all of us needs to change, but life doesnt' work that way.

 

Look I'm happy to try to soften my approach a bit, but it'll be fake and dishonest and I'll feel condescending and disrespectful doing it. Plus, in the past when I've tried that I've still been called arrogant and high and mighty for nothing more than posting a well articulated argument.

[Shelby]

Shelby, the difference is that all of my reading and studying leads me to admit that I DO NOT know the answers to life's big questions. All I ever argue for is for people to admit they don't know. Instead, most people study very little and conclude that they know how the universe came into existence.

 

Oh and great points about our cognition. I especially liked the bits about our peripheral vision and subconscious. There is very good research suggesting that you are dead on about that.

 

Chip the largest percentage of the people don't give a dam nor care about whats true , and it pains me to say this but most do need to be guide'd thru their lives and have most of the realy important decisions made for them ,,but that number is falling i hope

 

theres a real easy way to tell if your aware of your world or not atleast some of the time,, you make the same drive to work and home every day right,, ok play back in your mind every stop, turn , every foot of the trip you last made home ,,most won't even recall stoping to check the mail , but it's on the table so they must have done so

[Chad]

Sorry, but this is all nonsense. None of you are psychic or clairvoyant. You don't have a sixth sense. It is all coincidence, and a well understood tendency of the human brain to seek out patterns in things, even where none exist.

 

These two statements are incompatable.

 

 

 

I DO NOT know the answers to life's big questions.

[chiplee]

 

These two statements are incompatable.

 

Look, when you're up against statements like this, a little tough love goes a long way:

 

...I "KNOW" w/o a doubt, that I would "NOT" be here today w/o that "Lil Voice" that has saved me all too many times!

 

 

But let's consider the alternative to my statement. Consider the possibility that some of them are psychic, or they are clairvoyant, or that it's not all coincidence. What would that mean about nature? It would mean that natural laws were temporarily suspended for their benefit from time to time. What do you think is more likely? That this actually happened, or that something more along the lines of what shelby described has happened? That their cognition wasn't fully understood by them and they misinterpreted the sight, sound and other cues picked up by their "known" senses. One belief requires the suspension of natural law, telepathy, premonition, etc... The other belief is well understood to be an actual attribute of the human brain that has been observed countless times in controlled settings. I mean, seriously? I'm supposed to be "gentle" about how I say there's no such thing as a sixth sense, but home boy I quoted here doesn't have to be gentle about how he says there is one? The less likely stance can be stated boldly, but the more likely stance must be stated with caution and politeness? Huh?

Edited December 24, 2011 by chiplee

[chiplee]

 

Chip the largest percentage of the people don't give a dam nor care about whats true , and it pains me to say this but most do need to be guide'd thru their lives and have most of the realy important decisions made for them ,,but that number is falling i hope

 

Great point, Shelby, and the point I'm always trying to make is that I will not be a party to it. I refuse to condescend to my fellow man like that. I believe in people, and I think they're capable of dealing with MUCH more than society and politicians tend to trust them with. We don't want a society of sheep, and being "gentle" with ideas is just another way to keep people in the dark. Don't people get snowballed enough by manipulative charlatans who don't trust them with the truth? I have a "big boy" theory about ideas. They're just ideas, and there's no way for them to hurt unless you're too attached to yours and the ones you're hearing don't match up. We should all be very careful around people who seem to always say exactly what we want to hear.

Edited December 24, 2011 by chiplee

[SubZero]

This is what happened to me when I was around 12 years old, a .22 revolver fully loaded with all 8 bullets was pointed right at my face from about 2 feet away, the trigger was pulled 3 times and it failed to fire, then the firearm was pointed at a window, the trigger was pulled 2 times and it fired both times.

When it happened I thought the gun had onIy been fired twice at the window, it wasn't until morning when I checked the gun that I realized there were 3 bullets before the 2 that fired with trigger hammer indentations on the bullets, the hammer markings on the 3 that failed were identical to the 2 fired shells.

This was a gun that had never failed before or after that event and I was familiar with that revolver for I had fired it a few times before at targets.

 

At that time I was shocked when I realized how close I was to dying, years later I learned what russian roulette was and then my memories came back to me of that night, I don't think there's anyone here in the club that would risk playing russian roulette much less having the odds of a perfectly good firearm fully loaded and taking the chance of it being fired 3 times at the face and hoping that it would fail all 3 consecutive times, I can't even imagine the odds of surviving that!

 

It may not be so to some, but to me it is nothing short of a miracle, there's no way that I should be here today writing/posting this, with those odds I should have been dead decades ago.

 

One can rationalize until out of breath but I seriously doubt anyone with half a brain would take such odds, I didn't volunteer for what happened to me and wouldn't wish it on anyone, especially a child.

[chiplee]

This is what happened to me when I was around 12 years old, a .22 revolver fully loaded with all 8 bullets was pointed right at my face from about 2 feet away, the trigger was pulled 3 times and it failed to fire, then the firearm was pointed at a window, the trigger was pulled 2 times and it fired both times.

When it happened I thought the gun had onIy been fired twice at the window, it wasn't until morning when I checked the gun that I realized there were 3 bullets before the 2 that fired with trigger hammer indentations on the bullets, the hammer markings on the 3 that failed were identical to the 2 fired shells.

This was a gun that had never failed before or after that event and I was familiar with that revolver for I had fired it a few times before at targets.

 

At that time I was shocked when I realized how close I was to dying, years later I learned what russian roulette was and then my memories came back to me of that night, I don't think there's anyone here in the club that would risk playing russian roulette much less having the odds of a perfectly good firearm fully loaded and taking the chance of it being fired 3 times at the face and hoping that it would fail all 3 consecutive times, I can't even imagine the odds of surviving that!

 

It may not be so to some, but to me it is nothing short of a miracle, there's no way that I should be here today writing/posting this, with those odds I should have been dead decades ago.

 

One can rationalize until out of breath but I seriously doubt anyone with half a brain would take such odds, I didn't volunteer for what happened to me and wouldn't wish it on anyone, especially a child.

 

 

I have limited information here so bear with me, but you were a child. Is there any chance a twisted adult played a very mean trick on you? I mean, if not, then whoever did it should be arrested and tried for attempted murder. Of course no one would take those odds, but Occam's Razor is a logical principle that says "simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones." It is a complex explanation to say that three rimfire rounds in a reliable gun were all bad. I'm not saying this is what happened, but "I can imagine a less complex scenario" where some adult had a sick sense of humor, loaded three dummy rounds and two real ones, and then pointed the gun at you, pulled the trigger three times to cycle the dummy rounds through, and then pointed at the window and fired the real rounds. Obviously someone sick enough to point it at you and pull the trigger is also sick enough to play that kind of joke on a kid. The alternative is that this person actually meant to kill you, but you're alive, so they clearly never did kill you, which calls into question whether it ever was their intent to kill you in the first place. If you point a loaded gun at someone's face and pull the trigger, you mean to kill them, unless you know the rounds aren't real, in which case you're just a sick and reckless fool.

Edited December 24, 2011 by chiplee

[Metric-man]

At the suggestion of Occam's Razor a logical more simplified explanation against all the scientific data that that does not support any supernatural phenomenon is that the funding and the scholarship money that backed the PhD and paid for and guided their education and research on the subject was to control its outcome.

 

 

There is documented facts though history however biased that shows how the ruling dignitaries and their desire to keep themselves unequivocally within their high position in society, did so without guilt

or at any cost. Organized religions through history alone are examples of someone that is a go between for you and your personal deity.

 

Confidence is not a super natural phenomenon,

yet if a person just believes in themself they can achieve much.

 

But without confidence a person is only doing what they are told to do and not allowing themselves to do much else. Since no one that has money or power is willing to give it all away without a return investment even in this present day, I cannot see the reasoning of those that have any different than those that had in the past to control those that have not.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Metric-man

[theRobot]

I can say, that I think, based off of all I've read, the "Deja Vu" experiences could be you experiencing your life in a different way.

 

It's been said the entire universe is nothing but energy, that atoms are constantly moving. So my belief is this claim that the universe will eventually "contract" onto itself, is true. But it will repeat it's cycle, the mass of the universe will be formed again, as will we. And most would say, the odds of that are astronomical, and I would agree. But that's the only part that makes sense to me.

 

I too, cannot understand the other religions for how nonsensical they are. So I do not partake in any of their forms.

[Burton]

 

I'm sorry but that is just completely incorrect, but we are getting somewhere now at least. That which can be claimed without evidence, can be dismissed without counter-evidence, and there are no two ways about that. There is evidence of the physical. We live it every day. There is not a single shred of convincing evidence of the supernatural, whatsoever. When a person claims to have experienced the supernatural, it isn't something we "can" ignore. It's something we MUST ignore, because despite countless professional attempts to confirm it, no evidence has ever been collected in favor of the conjecture that a supernatural realm exists. If you disagree, present the evidence.

 

 

OK, I don't have any "evidence" to prove what I've experienced, but here's a handful of experiences I have had that really freaked me the heck out, and proved to me that I was picking up on stuff that most people don't....

 

When I was 12, I woke up scared and sweaty one morning about 1:30 am pacific time. I was drawn to look at my closet door, which was varnished wood. This night I looked at it and the woodgrain of it looked like a tall, skinny man with a mustache. As I stared at it, I swore I saw the figure move, which made me continue to just stare at it, waiting to see it move or anything again. Next thing I know, I'm waking up and it's morning. I started looking at the closet door again and no matter how I stared at it, there was no humanly figure there, and I never saw it again, no matter how much or how hard I looked at it. I got out of bed to start my day, and when I went down to the kitchen, my mom was crying and freaking out, and that was when my dad told me my grandfather had died at about 3:30am central time. My grandfather was a tall, skiny, mustached man that looked like the figure I saw in the woodgrain.

 

When I was about 22 I was living in my mom's basement for a while, and I always felt wierd in that house and heard funny noises and voices. One night I got home late at night, and went down into my room to crash out. As I was laying there trying to fall asleep, I started hearing voices. I couldn't hear what they were saying because they were muffled, but they were coming from in the house, so I assumed that my mom was having trouble sleeping and was watching some TV. The next morning I asked her why she was up late watching TV, and she said that she had gone to bed at 9 and the TV was not on at all. I thought it was wierd, but didn't think much about it until the next night.... About 3am, I woke to the sound of a crash and jumped up to see what it was. As I came out of my room and into the den, I saw a speaker that had been on the mantle laying on the floor on the other side of the room, and about half the booze bottles I had on the mantle were broken on the floor. I quickly assumed that one of the cats had knocked the speaker off the mantle, but that didn't explain how the speaker ended up on the other side of the room. As Iooked closer, I was even more confused... Half the bottles were on the floor broken,and the rest were on the mantle, not even disturbed a bit. The real clincher for me was when I looked at the speaker wire on the mantle. The speaker wire was running behind the bottles on the mantle, and at the break, it looked cut, not ripped apart, and the break happened to be right at the spot where the bottles weren't pulled down. All of it could be explained away by a cat, except for the the distance the speaker went and the way the wire was cut. I suppose a very strong cat with wire cutters could have made it happen, but otherwise,me and the cats were the only ones in the house. I moved the hell out after that.

 

About a year later I had my own apartment and was just falling asleep. I kept hearing what sounded like someone calling my name, but since I was at the point where I was half asleep and half awake I didn't think much of it. Then I heard my name loudly and felt air movement on my face. This time I recognized the voice as an ex girlfriend who died in a car accident when we were 15. As I opened my eyes, I saw a black shadowy figure leaving my bedroom and moving to the living room. I jumped out of bed and ran out to the living room, still not sure what I saw. As I made it to the living room I saw the shadowy figure move out thru the slider glass, onto the balcony, then fade away into the streetlight. I was still half asleep when this experience happened, so I don't feel as confident in what I saw as I do the other things I've experienced, but I really think that I saw my dead ex girlfriend that night.

 

That's about it for my "ghostly" experiences. I have had many instances where I don't "see" anything strange, but feel it. I may not see a "ghost", but I can feel like I'm not alone. I have Deja Vu on a regular basis, tho, and here are some examples of when I've been able to remember the dream and either interact in what happens, or change the outcome all together...

 

Once my wife and I were at the store at around 3am. My wife said something about "who would bring a baby to the store at 3am." That's when it clicked and I knew I had dreamt this before. I realized the people with the kid were the same ones in my dream and wearing the same thing. Then I started remembering the whole dream, so I started narrating what was going to happen for my wife before it happened. I was able to tell her they were about to have a fight, and then I was able to recite the argument word for word before they said it. My wife thought my beliefs in ghosts and Deja Vu was "silly" until that night.

 

 

Another time I was driving my car down the expressway with my friend. We were talking and the conversation seemed familliar, and then I saw a Celica with stickers all over it pass me and the dream rushed into my head. The dream ended with the Celica cutting off the car in front of me then hitting the brakes and that car and me both crashing into the back of the Celica. As soon as I realized how the dream ended, I made a lane change just in time to see the Celica brake, and the car that was in front of me slam into the back of the Celica, as I passed them in safety.

 

 

I was at a party in my mid 20's and everyone was really hammered. One of my friends was talking about leaving, and about then the clothes we were wearing and the conversation made the dream rush back. I remembered in the dream that it ended with my friend being killed in a drunk driving accident, so I got another friend of mine to help me get his keys. There is really no way to prove I saved him because there is no proof of an accident that he missed (the dream ended with me reading a newspaper article about my friend's death, along with another person that died in the wreck), but I like to think that I was able to stop the whole accident, just by stopping him.

 

 

I'm usually really good at remembering dreams I have, but I never remember the Deja Vu dreams until they start happening in real life, then the dream rushes in with more clarity than any other dreams I remember. I have Deja Vu usually once or twice a week. Most times it's just a fleeting converstion or recognizing the body movements and clothes of people in the dream, but I do have it on a regular basis. However, I only can ever change the outcome very rarely. Of the thousands of Deja Vu instances I've had, I've only been able to interact with or change the outcome a handful of times.

 

 

 

What does all this mean? I don't really know. I don't like that I experience what I have, as it's sometimes scary, and in the eyes of society, many would think I'm "crazy" bcause of it. I rarely talk about it unless I'm talking to someone else who has similar experinces as me, or at least believe the stuff I experience is possible. I'm only bringing it up here, because there are a few people here who believe, and for those who don't, frankly, I don't care what they think of me because this is just a car site.

 

 

Chip, basically, by saying believing in this stuff is nonsene, you are saying that everything I just described did not or could not happen. Well, I can tell you with 100% certainty that it DID happen. These are not figments of my imagination. You are a smart man, and probably strive to know more than the average guy, and probably do. I myself have learned alot about certain things you know about, and some info has also helped myself prove some of my perceptions of life to myslef. That has made me think of you as credible on many things, and I respect a lot of what you are about. That being said, everytime you say something that you "know" is true, and it isn't, you lose some of that credibility and respect with me. I hope you are able to prove to me that what I experienced can be explained away with science, but I doubt that you will. You'll probably just talk about theories and studies and everything else that's a lot of talk but very little proof. I don't want that, I want REAL explainations. Personally, I think you'd have as much luck convincing me my experiences are "nonsense" as I would trying to convince you that men who don't believe in God are sterile and couldn't have children.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Burton

[chiplee]

 

OK, I don't have any "evidence" to prove what I've experienced, but here's a handful of experiences I have had that really freaked me the heck out, and proved to me that I was picking up on stuff that most people don't....

 

When I was 12, I woke up scared and sweaty one morning about 1:30 am pacific time. I was drawn to look at my closet door, which was varnished wood. This night I looked at it and the woodgrain of it looked like a tall, skinny man with a mustache. As I stared at it, I swore I saw the figure move, which made me continue to just stare at it, waiting to see it move or anything again. Next thing I know, I'm waking up and it's morning. I started looking at the closet door again and no matter how I stared at it, there was no humanly figure there, and I never saw it again, no matter how much or how hard I looked at it. I got out of bed to start my day, and when I went down to the kitchen, my mom was crying and freaking out, and that was when my dad told me my grandfather had died at about 3:30am central time. My grandfather was a tall, skiny, mustached man that looked like the figure I saw in the woodgrain.

 

When I was about 22 I was living in my mom's basement for a while, and I always felt wierd in that house and heard funny noises and voices. One night I got home late at night, and went down into my room to crash out. As I was laying there trying to fall asleep, I started hearing voices. I couldn't hear what they were saying because they were muffled, but they were coming from in the house, so I assumed that my mom was having trouble sleeping and was watching some TV. The next morning I asked her why she was up late watching TV, and she said that she had gone to bed at 9 and the TV was not on at all. I thought it was wierd, but didn't think much about it until the next night.... About 3am, I woke to the sound of a crash and jumped up to see what it was. As I came out of my room and into the den, I saw a speaker that had been on the mantle laying on the floor on the other side of the room, and about half the booze bottles I had on the mantle were broken on the floor. I quickly assumed that one of the cats had knocked the speaker off the mantle, but that didn't explain how the speaker ended up on the other side of the room. As Iooked closer, I was even more confused... Half the bottles were on the floor broken,and the rest were on the mantle, not even disturbed a bit. The real clincher for me was when I looked at the speaker wire on the mantle. The speaker wire was running behind the bottles on the mantle, and at the break, it looked cut, not ripped apart, and the break happened to be right at the spot where the bottles weren't pulled down. All of it could be explained away by a cat, except for the the distance the speaker went and the way the wire was cut. I suppose a very strong cat with wire cutters could have made it happen, but otherwise,me and the cats were the only ones in the house. I moved the hell out after that.

 

About a year later I had my own apartment and was just falling asleep. I kept hearing what sounded like someone calling my name, but since I was at the point where I was half asleep and half awake I didn't think much of it. Then I heard my name loudly and felt air movement on my face. This time I recognized the voice as an ex girlfriend who died in a car accident when we were 15. As I opened my eyes, I saw a black shadowy figure leaving my bedroom and moving to the living room. I jumped out of bed and ran out to the living room, still not sure what I saw. As I made it to the living room I saw the shadowy figure move out thru the slider glass, onto the balcony, then fade away into the streetlight. I was still half asleep when this experience happened, so I don't feel as confident in what I saw as I do the other things I've experienced, but I really think that I saw my dead ex girlfriend that night.

 

That's about it for my "ghostly" experiences. I have had many instances where I don't "see" anything strange, but feel it. I may not see a "ghost", but I can feel like I'm not alone. I have Deja Vu on a regular basis, tho, and here are some examples of when I've been able to remember the dream and either interact in what happens, or change the outcome all together...

 

Once my wife and I were at the store at around 3am. My wife said something about "who would bring a baby to the store at 3am." That's when it clicked and I knew I had dreamt this before. I realized the people with the kid were the same ones in my dream and wearing the same thing. Then I started remembering the whole dream, so I started narrating what was going to happen for my wife before it happened. I was able to tell her they were about to have a fight, and then I was able to recite the argument word for word before they said it. My wife thought my beliefs in ghosts and Deja Vu was "silly" until that night.

 

 

Another time I was driving my car down the expressway with my friend. We were talking and the conversation seemed familliar, and then I saw a Celica with stickers all over it pass me and the dream rushed into my head. The dream ended with the Celica cutting off the car in front of me then hitting the brakes and that car and me both crashing into the back of the Celica. As soon as I realized how the dream ended, I made a lane change just in time to see the Celica brake, and the car that was in front of me slam into the back of the Celica, as I passed them in safety.

 

 

I was at a party in my mid 20's and everyone was really hammered. One of my friends was talking about leaving, and about then the clothes we were wearing and the conversation made the dream rush back. I remembered in the dream that it ended with my friend being killed in a drunk driving accident, so I got another friend of mine to help me get his keys. There is really no way to prove I saved him because there is no proof of an accident that he missed (the dream ended with me reading a newspaper article about my friend's death, along with another person that died in the wreck), but I like to think that I was able to stop the whole accident, just by stopping him.

 

 

I'm usually really good at remembering dreams I have, but I never remember the Deja Vu dreams until they start happening in real life, then the dream rushes in with more clarity than any other dreams I remember. I have Deja Vu usually once or twice a week. Most times it's just a fleeting converstion or recognizing the body movements and clothes of people in the dream, but I do have it on a regular basis. However, I only can ever change the outcome very rarely. Of the thousands of Deja Vu instances I've had, I've only been able to interact with or change the outcome a handful of times.

 

 

 

What does all this mean? I don't really know. I don't like that I experience what I have, as it's sometimes scary, and in the eyes of society, many would think I'm "crazy" bcause of it. I rarely talk about it unless I'm talking to someone else who has similar experinces as me, or at least believe the stuff I experience is possible. I'm only bringing it up here, because there are a few people here who believe, and for those who don't, frankly, I don't care what they think of me because this is just a car site.

 

 

Chip, basically, by saying believing in this stuff is nonsene, you are saying that everything I just described did not or could not happen. Well, I can tell you with 100% certainty that it DID happen. These are not figments of my imagination. You are a smart man, and probably strive to know more than the average guy, and probably do. I myself have learned alot about certain things you know about, and some info has also helped myself prove some of my perceptions of life to myslef. That has made me think of you as credible on many things, and I respect a lot of what you are about. That being said, everytime you say something that you "know" is true, and it isn't, you lose some of that credibility and respect with me. I hope you are able to prove to me that what I experienced can be explained away with science, but I doubt that you will. You'll probably just talk about theories and studies and everything else that's a lot of talk but very little proof. I don't want that, I want REAL explainations. Personally, I think you'd have as much luck convincing me my experiences are "nonsense" as I would trying to convince you that men who don't believe in God are sterile and couldn't have children.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to type all of that out. I guess my only rebuttal would be that I think most people have had some experience that would count as "similar" to the ones you've described, and yet we still fail to confirm the existence of anything supernatural. I'll concede that their experiences are perhaps not as compelling or convincing as some of what you've described, but they are at least similar, something unexplained. I've even had similar experiences.

 

It seems like you might actually be interested in the subject enough to look into it in more detail, so let me make a few recommendations. "Consciousness Explained" is a book by Dan Dennett that I suspect will completely blow your mind. It's about how our brains work and the difference between what we perceive and what is. Assuming you don't have the book or the time to go get it, you could also listen to this three part lecture by Dennett. I think it's worth your time.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hqJ9DkaVM4

Edited December 24, 2011 by chiplee

[SubZero]

Chip,

 

That was my life from about 10 to when I started living on my own at 18 years old, what happened that night was the most memorable and inexplicable thing I ever experienced.

I can see the possibility of dummy rounds but that wasn't the case, the main problem was alcohol, so much alcohol that the next day that person wouldn't remember a thing about the previous hellish night, even when confronted with evidence.

Nothing was planned in advance, every evening started just fine until the drinking (new bottle everyday), even the person drinking didn't know how that night was going to be or how it would end.

There was nothing premeditated or planned about that one night, alcohol led the course of that night just like any of the other nights, at that time it led to the use of a firearm and it was the last time a firearm was used for the remaining years.

[Metric-man]

It must be a group I have been placed in by the admin to sequester my post so I go ignored;

I apologize that I so easly provoke the majority.

I might as well be screaming from a cell in Abu Ghraib.

I wish you all the best.

[chiplee]

At the suggestion of Occam's Razor a logical more simplified explanation against all the scientific data that that does not support any supernatural phenomenon is that the funding and the scholarship money that backed the PhD and paid for and guided their education and research on the subject was to control its outcome.

 

I had a long reply to you composed earlier today, but I was hesitant to post it because i wasnt sure I followed you. Your writing is a bit difficult to decipher. The reader has to go very slowly, insert punctuation, and power through all the passive voice. That being said, I copied what I wrote earlier, and I do think I follow most of your post.

 

The only issue with what you're saying, here, assuming you mean occam's razor would also suggest that the simplest explanation for much of the findings of science is the desire among scientists to gain and maintain funding, is that occam's razor fully allows for more complex explanations when they have more explanatory power. This is often the case in a doctoral dissertation.

 

 

There is documented facts though history however biased that shows how the ruling dignitaries and their desire to keep themselves unequivocally within their high position in society, did so without guilt

or at any cost. Organized religions through history alone are examples of someone that is a go between for you and your personal deity.

 

Confidence is not a super natural phenomenon,

yet if a person just believes in themself they can achieve much.

 

But without confidence a person is only doing what they are told to do and not allowing themselves to do much else. Since no one that has money or power is willing to give it all away without a return investment even in this present day, I cannot see the reasoning of those that have any different than those that had in the past to control those that have not.

 

If I follow you, I don't disagree.

Edited December 25, 2011 by chiplee

[KT]

I've only read the last page of this post, but I can imagine how the first three went and can only provide this one simple theory and litmus test.

 

Theory - One cannot be clairvoyant or psychic.

 

Reasoning - Your subconscious acts in the best interest of yourself and your well being.

 

Proof - If one is psychic and your subconscious works to preserve yourself and your well being, it would have never allowed you to own such a time consuming, costly and heartbreaking car.

 

/thread