JDean Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 i think it would be better to get some cam blanks made so we could have better roller cams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 1.4 rockers with stock cam.. 1.6 rockers with cam ground down.. same lift? same duration? do you understand how cam profiles work? and when I said spending 10k to get 10 more cfm, I meant 10more cfm than any production head on the market would allow after porting and polishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 this reminds me too much of the "How can I make 1000hp out my G54B" thread.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) roller mechanicalshttp://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3528/20110111134656.th.jpg intake comparison next to standard starquest mechanical rocker.http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/4858/20110111140731.th.jpg exhaust comparison next to standard starquest mechanical rockerhttp://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5444/20110111140638.th.jpg marked "a" left row and "b" right rowhttp://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9866/20110111135327.th.jpg turn them over and there are the number markshttp://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9797/20110111135738.th.jpg this picture is with the slipper lined up same as the roller, you can see the ratrio differencehttp://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2505/20110111135108.th.jpg another shot roller next to mechanical exhaust. http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9084/20110111135016.th.jpg these could be installed on the exhaust but not on the intake without some sort of special spacer becuase they dont line up with the cam or valve stem properly seems like people who reply are basically on her to tell earl not to waste his time with cams. my opinion if you dont have anything positive to say or any real new info the dont bother posting. take people longer to sort through and find the real info. i mean sure if you already ran something other than stock post it up and let him know how it works. Edited January 11, 2011 by JohnnyWadd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 There already are different turbo roller cam versions and those mechanical roller rockers from RPW in Austrailia and have been for like TEN years but you have to PAY for them. Most everyone here is a cheaparse. They aren't listed for Starions you'll have to look under Magna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 i think these are not off a magna not sure what they are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89PalermoSHP Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) seems like people who reply are basically on her to tell earl not to waste his time with cams. my opinion if you dont have anything positive to say or any real new info the dont bother posting. take people longer to sort through and find the real info. i mean sure if you already ran something other than stock post it up and let him know how it works. not saying something positive and being negative are two different things. getting custom roller rockers involves way more than putting a piece of aluminum in a cnc machine and turning the spindle. understanding the geometry of everything is the only way it will be successful. im only trying to urge Earl into learning more about the science of the cam and its workings before suggesting that we "just machine up" some billet arms. there are tons of threads on roller rockers on the stock cam and other roller cams and it seems to be mixed results but its nothing you can just blindly bolt on and expect miracles out of. Edited January 12, 2011 by 89PalermoSHP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 The TR/TS Magna is where the roller cam came from and it was made from 1991-1996. The reason for the change in the valve keepers and retainers back in 1983 were so the 2.0/2.6/3.0 SOHC heads could SHARE valve train parts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Magna This is the model with the GenIII head, the TS Magna. Its the one with the high swirl combustion chamber. It was only in this model sedan/wagon for the last 2 years this motor was used. http://www.carbuddy.com.au/car/values/specification/viewspecs.aspx?gid=29363&tid=58226139 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Rabbit, I'm not trying to be a saitn and praise this and say it's going to be amazing and add tons of HP and all this jazz. I'm just bringing up the idea and brainstorming to see how things CAN and COULD be improved to work just a little better. You are very smart and have great ideas. And I sure know there is no way you're getting 1000 hp out of a G54B, unless you fuse the head to the block and valve cover to the head and have one big chunk and have a snot load of boost and nitrous....probably still won't get there before blowing up=) lol Indiana, thanks for telling me about the Magna roller rockers and cams. They're from the second gen correct? I see some here that someone swapped into a first gen. http://wiki.mitsubishiclubaustralia.com/index.php?title=TM-TP_Modifications&redirect=no&printable=yes If we talked to some of our aussie members, do you think ther'd be many left in the junkyards to be pulled? Johnny Wadd, where did you get those rockers from? lol And 89PalermoSHP, the one way it would be as simple as just machining it, is if it was scanned into a CAD file, or if someone used the measurements to reverse engineer a rendering that is the exact same as the original 1.6 roller rocker, but with the flat surface for the adjuster but and the threaded hole=) but it is possible and isn't truly that hard. Brian also stated that one of his many projects has been making a plug that fits where the hydraulic adjuster would be. That seems liek a very simple and easy thing to do. Take a piece of barstock, lathe it down to match the OD to the same size as the adjusters hole, then run a bit down the center using the tailstock fit with a drill bit, then come back and tap that hole. You could make them each piece by piece, or make one bar and cut them off. It seems just that easy=) Maybe it would take more than that, but you wouldn't know until you try the first idea and it doesn't work. And thank your for the constructive criticism, because it has been driving me to read closer and go and research other threads or just information on the topic in general=) I see that you're only trying to help and that when people usually do a post like this, it dies and you see nothing of it. lol I understand that. But I thank you for all of the help. Thank you Indiana, Rabbit, Andrew, Brian, and Tim aswell=D You guys are all very smart and knowledgable and I take what you say into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) You can spend 10grand developing a head that will flow 20 more cfm, but would it really be worth it when you can port and polish a stock one NOW!!!!!! Here is a member that sees the big picture. If you want to run a Roller set up, the 1.6lt. 3000gt rollers work fine coupled with a Roller cam. Why try to re-invent the wheel??? Sounds like the DOHC revisited!!!!!Also, I have read comments from certain members that say this: "You don't gain RPMS by installing a Roller set up". I will think about their comments the next time I rev my car to 7000 ;)If you haven't done it, you can't comment on it. I don't give bad advice, just sound advice, Bill Edited January 12, 2011 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted January 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Hey bill, are you saying I see the big picture or rabbit does? lol just wondering=) And I think my roller rockers are from a magna, but they are hydraulic and 1.6=) And it definately helps you reach higher RPM because of the lightened stress on the valvetrain, just like titanium retainers and locks. Do you know of anything internal we could inmprove at this moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Where do you think all those on ebay come from? Texas junkyard minivans and FWD chryslers products that used that Mitsu 3.0 V6 that was common as dirt over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) I'm just putting it out there as an option, not something that you HAVE to buy=) also, the Marnel and Clearwater heads do flow somewhere around 20 more CFM I'm sure. Ask Bill (Caliber 308) for the exact numbers, but I'm sure it's close. Ask and ye shall receive Stock J.V. Head: 151 cfm.Non J.V. Head: 165 cfmMild ported Marnal: 188 cfmHeavy ported Marnal: 211 cfm. Compression ratios:Stock CR is 7 to 1Clearwater Cylinder head lowers it:6.73 to 1Marnal raises it: .11 CR to 7.11 to 1 Also with a Roller set up you can rev. higher. Especially if you lighten the stock flywheel or (and i'm not a big fan of them) install a Fidenza. Bill Edited January 13, 2011 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Johnny Wadd, where did you get those rockers from? lol I hand made 'em from old aluminum bike frames. no got these from ebay. seller said they would bolt on but no. i will mock em up on a head and get some pics.that ebay link is not where i got these these came as a set listed for starion. look at the ebay link dont those look like 1.4 ratio? definitly dont look like the ones i have. SUITABLE FOR: HYUNDAI H100 2.5 D & TD D4BA/B OCT-97 TO APR-02HYUNDAI H200 2.5 TD D4BF JUN-97 ONWARDSMITSUBISHI CANTER 2.5 DIESEL 4D56 JAN-88 TO DEC-89MITSUBISHI CHALLENGER 2.5 TD UK&IMPORT 4D56 JUL-96 TO FEB-00MITSUBISHI DELICA 2.5 TD IMPORT 4D56 APR-86 TO JUN-99MITSUBISHI L200 2.5 D 4D56 JAN-88 TO APR-06MITSUBISHI L200 2.5 TD 4D56 JAN-93 TO APR-06MITSUBISHI PAJERO 2.5 TD IMPORT APR-86 TO MAY-97MITSUBISHI SHOGUN 2.5 TD 4D56 JAN-89 TO JUN-00MITSUBISHI SHOGUN SPORT 2.5 TD 456 MAR-00 ONWARDS http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4440/75400518.jpg http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MITSUBISHI-DELICA-2-5-TD-ENGINE-HEAD-EXHAUST-ROCKER-ARM_W0QQitemZ160498063550QQihZ006QQcategoryZ10400QQcmdZViewItem Edited January 13, 2011 by JohnnyWadd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 so these are part number... VALVE ROCKER ARM(MD-324966) wich appear to be close to what i have but different ratio? more like 1.5 or 1.4 these ones i have are like 1.6 i think...they have a very sharp angle. Also i noticed on those ebay one they have two different ones the exhaust and intake...wich is a little encouraging...as the ones i have are the same and only fit the exhaust side http://www.gasgoo.com/showroom/xyc-lindsey/auto-products/16613.html http://www.gasgoo.com/showroom/xyc-lindsey/auto-products/1111878.html http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/357017237/VALVE_ROCKER_ARM_MD_324966_IN_/showimage.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) http://ace-m.com/Rocker/MITSUBISHI.html these two look like what i have MD140048B or MD140047A so i wonder wich ones i have? these look like 1.4 http://www.ec21.com/product-details/Rocker-Arm--2951943.html# Edited January 13, 2011 by JohnnyWadd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Hey bill, are you saying I see the big picture or rabbit does? lol just wondering=) And I think my roller rockers are from a magna, but they are hydraulic and 1.6=) And it definately helps you reach higher RPM because of the lightened stress on the valvetrain, just like titanium retainers and locks. Do you know of anything internal we could inmprove at this moment?titanium retainers may take a few grams off of the valvetrain, but they were designed for full race cars. you can do rockers, locks, retainers, cam and all that fun jazz, but without valve springs you will get valve float and without proper valve rocker geometry (which cannot be adjusted on our heads) then you will wear out a guide pushing the valve too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Why would you think that diesel rocker arms work with our cylinder head. Edited January 14, 2011 by Indiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Why would you think that diesel rocker arms work with our cylinder head.diesels do move alot of cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 so these are part number... VALVE ROCKER ARM(MD-324966) wich appear to be close to what i have but different ratio? more like 1.5 or 1.4 these ones i have are like 1.6 i think...they have a very sharp angle. Also i noticed on those ebay one they have two different ones the exhaust and intake...wich is a little encouraging...as the ones i have are the same and only fit the exhaust side http://www.gasgoo.com/showroom/xyc-lindsey/auto-products/16613.html http://www.gasgoo.com/showroom/xyc-lindsey/auto-products/1111878.html http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/357017237/VALVE_ROCKER_ARM_MD_324966_IN_/showimage.html MD106245 are 1.5 rollers for a Galant.....They won't work.I tried them Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 So you are assuming that the distance from the pivot point of the rocker is identical from our head compared to the 4d55/4d56 head in regards to the valve tip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted January 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 I have 120ib heavy duty springs=) lol What about putting bearings in the head for the cam to ride on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89PalermoSHP Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 I have 120ib heavy duty springs=) lol What about putting afterburner in the turbo for increased propulsion Hell of a way to spend ten grand kidhttp://www.holamun2.com/files/images/mun2-images/ask-xyz/ask-vin-diesel-a-question.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted January 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 they were $40 from Brian. And I got titanium retainers and locks from him too. afterburner in the turbo=O lol And the bearing in the head have been done by Indiana. I just don't know if he recommends it or how much it would cost for a machine shop to bore the head and cam towers to give room for the bearings to seat. And not ball bearings, shim style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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