mistapickles Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 As I gradually turn my DD into a track car, I have come to the conclusion that the tops of my wheel wells would fit 19's better if they were about three inches higher. The idea has to do with lowering the car and not having the tops of the wells tucked so much that they have no travel. Has anybody done this? Are there any pictures of this? Suggestions for or against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahjah Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 19s on a track car? no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted July 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 (edited) 19s on a track car? no.Car and Driver did a test on which tires performed best in track conditions and while the smaller rims had better feel, the larger diameter rims had better times. Most all GT class(1-4)race cars run 18-19's and do exceptionally well. I'm not talking about some $500 a set cast wheels, I'm talking about forged wheels. I think there was a video posted in the Just BS section about how larger rims run faster times, and smalled rims are more for beginners. Edited July 18, 2010 by mistapickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garychoffmann Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 Correct me if I am wrong but your travel has to do with your springs/shocks/control arms etc. Just trimming the wheel wells does not increase travel. What are you planning to do suspension wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted July 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 in the back, I'm basically tubbing it and I came up with a design to make an upper control arm where I am going to reposition the strut. I should be able to get the car an inch and a half off the ground, but with my strut design when you jack the car up, the wheel will only drop a couple inches at most and a good portion of the wheel will still be under the the wheel well otherwise. In the front, there is no way to have 19s on the front, still have it lowered and have any sort of decent turn radius except to raise the wheel well to where the fender flair starts to turn down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahjah Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 Car and Driver did a test on which tires performed best in track conditions and while the smaller rims had better feel, the larger diameter rims had better times. Most all GT class(1-4)race cars run 18-19's and do exceptionally well. I'm not talking about some $500 a set cast wheels, I'm talking about forged wheels. I think there was a video posted in the Just BS section about how larger rims run faster times, and smalled rims are more for beginners.GT class cars also have a billion horsepower to spin those big 'ol wheels. besides, with the kind of mods you wanna do to the frame/body, and with your exhaust coming out in front of the rear wheel, what kind of race series do you think you qualify for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 what kind of race series do you think you qualify for?LA Highway 500...its a daily race and many die doing it.....http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted July 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 GT class cars also have a billion horsepower to spin those big 'ol wheels. besides, with the kind of mods you wanna do to the frame/body, and with your exhaust coming out in front of the rear wheel, what kind of race series do you think you qualify for?GT2 cars run about 500-600 horsepower and weigh about 2800 lbs. I could hang with that with a twin turbo 6G74, which I plan on doing next year. Volk and BBS make 14lb rims, HREs are even lighter, so they may be taller, but most forged rims are 5-7 lbs lighter than stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberquest Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 front fenders would be gravy to do, they are just sheet metal and have no structure support to them, plus they are removeable. the rear is where you will run into problems. the rear has the inner fender part WELDING in, i also belive it helps give it support and structure. here is a quarter panel thats been cut out and you can see how the inner fender is welded in.http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/vcyberbob/Misc%20Quest%20Pics/larry003.jpg this is just one idea on how to make it work. if you cut the metal away at the little green line, then take the red line which represents the metal where you cut it and bend it up to meet the quarter again like the blue line. so the blue line is the peice of metal bent up to meet the metal. then it would require you welding it to the entire wheel opening. if that makes any sense at all.http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/vcyberbob/Misc%20Quest%20Pics/larry0031.jpg lets not forget your gonna have to be sitting almost inside the rear wheel well to do the work which means hot welding slag will be burning the crap out of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted July 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 that doesn't look nice at all...the way that works out the upper edge of the arch would be about four inches thick, because of the folded metal. The structural work doesn't look fun either... Thank you for the pictures, I'm going to have to sit down and draw this one out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberquest Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 yea you got lucky that someone else cut that quarter section out for a donor peice that i welded into a car i am restoring. maybe you could try and cut that original fold of the metal along the lip out and try and move it up and reweld that section in. i think any way you do it that it will be a pretty major job no doubt. i still picture that being a very hard area to real get in to with a cutting wheel and a welder. you would almost need to move the rear end outta the way to be able to sit up in there enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted July 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 yea you got lucky that someone else cut that quarter section out for a donor peice that i welded into a car i am restoring. maybe you could try and cut that original fold of the metal along the lip out and try and move it up and reweld that section in. i think any way you do it that it will be a pretty major job no doubt. i still picture that being a very hard area to real get in to with a cutting wheel and a welder. you would almost need to move the rear end outta the way to be able to sit up in there enough.I taught autobody repair at the local community college and because they have a three phase 220v plasma cutter, I might just take the class in the fall....I'll probably get a tub kit, remove the entire top of the inner wheel well and fit the tub kit in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 you need to do some more reading on wheel size and race cars man. The cars that run 19's also have one nut holding them on, and unless your going to run a 20 series sidewall(which would also be usless on a track car) your not going to get as low as you want. You'd have to do a rediculous amount of cutting and re welding to make that work. By that time you might as well tube frame the front half of the car.. If I did mine again I would have. I tubbed the front to get angle and to run wider rims, while being low. http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w239/johnboy9788/Picture.jpghttp://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w239/johnboy9788/106_0445.jpghttp://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w239/johnboy9788/1269482070.jpg I would love to see where you saw that 19's make your car faster.. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted July 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 (edited) Bravo on the rack and pinion setup, looks great. As far as the 19's are concerned, Car and Driver and TireRack did a test using identical M3s on TireRack's test track using the same brand and model tire and rims from 15 to 20s. The tests concluded that there was better feel with lower diameter rims but pulled better times and higher g's with the lower profile taller rims. Somewhere in the just BS section there is a video confirming the same thing, I think JustPaus posted it. I'm pretty sure I can fit the 19s, worst case scenario I run 18's with a 325 in the back and a 265 front after the suspension mods and tubbing. Real speed is found in the corners. Edited July 19, 2010 by mistapickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 its all relative to weight and width I suppose. I'm going to run 305's in the rear and 265's fronts for the track (now they are stretched 235's and 275's) on the street. The fender wells just suck on these cars, theres no room. Also what may have helped in that test was gearing with wheel size. It may have made it so they didn't have to shift as much with the 19's.... I've read that about using 15's vs 17's on certain auto cross courses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahjah Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 GT2 cars run about 500-600 horsepower and weigh about 2800 lbs. I could hang with that with a twin turbo 6G74, which I plan on doing next year. Volk and BBS make 14lb rims, HREs are even lighter, so they may be taller, but most forged rims are 5-7 lbs lighter than stock.Okay, so you are going to race GT2? don't get me wrong, i'm not mocking what you want to accomplish. I just can't think of a race series with 500-600hp cars that a starion with a motor swap would stand a chance in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted July 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 Okay, so you are going to race GT2? don't get me wrong, i'm not mocking what you want to accomplish. I just can't think of a race series with 500-600hp cars that a starion with a motor swap would stand a chance in.let me dream jahjah, let me dream.... The 6G with twin 14Gs and some head work will run 550ish horsepower all day quasi reliably. The newer Tacoma six speed is actually the same trans used in the CTS-V, you can find those all day and there is a guy in Delaware who does a bellhousing swap to fit the 6G motors. I'm working with the suspension gurus at my old job to figure out what I need to do get 1.2 Gs out of the car. So all I'm pretty much left with is how to get the car to 2800s.... It may take longer than next year, but it is going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_99 Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 What brakes are you going with? I understand your wheels will be about the same weight or lighter, but the tires weight? Just curious if it will effect your braking. BC_99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahjah Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 let me dream jahjah, let me dream.... The 6G with twin 14Gs and some head work will run 550ish horsepower all day quasi reliably. The newer Tacoma six speed is actually the same trans used in the CTS-V, you can find those all day and there is a guy in Delaware who does a bellhousing swap to fit the 6G motors. I'm working with the suspension gurus at my old job to figure out what I need to do get 1.2 Gs out of the car. So all I'm pretty much left with is how to get the car to 2800s.... It may take longer than next year, but it is going to happen. Don't get me wrong, think what you are trying to acocmplish with the motor and wheels and all that is freaking dope. i guess calling it a track car had me thinking race-only. that'll one Bad tail street machine too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted July 19, 2010 Report Share Posted July 19, 2010 2800lbs is easy. I'm shooting for 2500-2700 no problem. There is so much worthless crap on this car in stock trim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted July 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 What brakes are you going with? I understand your wheels will be about the same weight or lighter, but the tires weight? Just curious if it will effect your braking. BC_99The brakes are going to depend on what I need to do to get high g's in the corners. If I am going to be completely redoing all my suspension arms, then I'll see if I can find a wrecked Corvette or something and make that happen. If I am going to use my stock suspension arms then I'll use the stock brakes and make some sort of cooling system for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted July 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 2800lbs is easy. I'm shooting for 2500-2700 no problem. There is so much worthless crap on this car in stock trim.true, but I want the AC to work....lol...wha? it's hot out here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSI_law Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 let me dream jahjah, let me dream.... The 6G with twin 14Gs and some head work will run 550ish horsepower all day quasi reliably. The newer Tacoma six speed is actually the same trans used in the CTS-V, you can find those all day and there is a guy in Delaware who does a bellhousing swap to fit the 6G motors. I'm working with the suspension gurus at my old job to figure out what I need to do get 1.2 Gs out of the car. So all I'm pretty much left with is how to get the car to 2800s.... It may take longer than next year, but it is going to happen. Who makes the bellhousings for the 6g motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistapickles Posted August 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 Who makes the bellhousings for the 6g motor?http://6g72rwd.forumcircle.com/portal.php Old Colt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) GT2 car's run 19's because they've got damn 15" brakes to clear!! a shorter sidewall may give you slightly higher g's. maybe. you might want to go to a track event with racecars that are based on an actual street car chassis. http://www.broadfootracing.com/944_3.1L_RS_Turbo_5.jpgi think this is a good example, still has some sidewall (probably about the same sidewall size as 225/45/16's) , anything less than that and i think it's gonna be too easy to lose the contact patch when cornering imho Edited October 25, 2010 by patra_is_here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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