Boosted_One Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 Here's some pics of my TO4B. Specs are: .60 A/R Compressor 60-1 compressor trim O trim exhaust .70 A/R split tang turbine housing Flows ~ 800 cfm @15psi I'm staring right at you backpressure!  ;D http://a6.cpimg.com/image/94/46/17024916-8670-02000180-.jpg http://a4.cpimg.com/image/92/46/17024914-e918-02000180-.jpg  Garrett TO4B left   TDO5-12A right http://a4.cpimg.com/image/F2/41/17024754-a62a-02000180-.jpg Garrett TO4B .70 A/R split tang  left    TDO5-12A right http://a3.cpimg.com/image/91/46/17024913-66be-02000180-.jpg Garrett O trim left  TDO5  right A few more pics can be found here: http://members9.clubphoto.com/mike528403/1176024 PLMK if that link doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conquestpa Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 thats one big a** turbo. how much was it and are you using an adaptor or a special header? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted March 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 Chad's header is going on. The stock exhaust manifold would probably eject with this pig slapped on it! Â ;D Well I got a good deal on a brand spanking new factory Garett turbo on Ebay and I sent it out to MIC to had the compressor side upgraded. http://a5.cpimg.com/image/73/03/15713395-79cd-0190012C-.jpg This is the actual turbo I bought on Ebay. It's an S trim TO4B .60 A/R http://a7.cpimg.com/image/95/46/17024917-5582-02000180-.jpg Here's the same exact turbo after MIC got their paws on it ;D This turbo would run ~$650-$700 at MIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adi Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 That's Crazzy... ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksweet Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 I don't understand Garret nomenclature.A/r? What is the difference in a T3/to4e and what you're are using.? I need schooling on Garrett turbo's!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 That makes me happy!! That is awsome!! And the flow is insain!! I can't wait to hear what your car is like when you're done with it! Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted March 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 I don't understand Garret nomenclature.A/r? What is the difference in a T3/to4e and what you're are using.? I need schooling on Garrett turbo's!! Ok here's the cliff notes version... A/R means air ratio. That measurment is basically from the center of the shaft to the top of the housing. So a larger A/R has a larger "shell" in which it can flow more. Kind of like comparing a 12 oz soda to a 16oz soda. A T3/T4 is a hybrid. It can either run a T3 compressor housing with a T4 trim or it can run a T4 compressor housing with a T4 trim. There are several T4 models out there, the TO4B,TO4E,TO4S and the new TO4Z. Usually a TO4E housing and wheel is used. So a T3/T4 would usually mate a T4 compressor housing to a T3 exhaust housing, just like the way the 20G is made, TDO6 compressor housing and TDO5 turbine housing. The smaller A/R on the T3 turbine housings are good for smaller displacement motors as they can't make enough exhaust velocity to pressurize a larger (larger A/R) T4 turbine housing. So you would get a quick spooling turbo that flows well on the intake side. But this can limit your upper end and can cause spiking because the smaller turbine housing (A/R) is restrictive and just can't flow enough in or out. My turbo is all T4. The difference on my particular turbo to a T3/T4 is the turbine housing, shaft and exhaust trim. It is a split tang, runs the O trim T4 exhaust trim and has a different mouting flange than a T3 turbine housing. Take a look on this site and look at all the different Garrett trim wheels. http://64.225.76.178/catalog/compmaps/fig1.html ...and here's for the hot side... http://64.225.76.178/catalog/twheel.html http://64.225.76.178/catalog/thousing.html Here's the main site to the Garrett/ Turbonetics line: http://64.225.76.178/catalog/Default.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 Good man! You went with Vbands for the downpipe! I love those things Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted March 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 V clamp rules! ;D No more studs and no more gaskets. Tighten it down and your good to go in 60 seconds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propeine Posted March 14, 2003 Report Share Posted March 14, 2003 I WANT ONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 THAT IS A BEAUTIFUL TURBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksweet Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Mike I'm sure you put a lot of thought into this turbo and I was surprised at 800cfm. Like WOW that's a lot of airflow. Can the 2.6 take in that much air and use it? You run a total of 2880cc's of fuel/sec? Or do you intend to run larger injectors? What HP are you expecting to achieve? That turbo makes my 19c seem like a toy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted March 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Mike I'm sure you put a lot of thought into this turbo and I was surprised at 800cfm. Like WOW that's a lot of airflow. Can the 2.6 take in that much air and use it? You run a total of 2880cc's of fuel/sec? Or do you intend to run larger injectors? What HP are you expecting to achieve? That turbo makes my 19c seem like a toy!! This 60-1 is made to run lower boost, like under 25 psi. So by nature of the trim it is very efficient at lower boost levels. Actually the way turbos are rated the 800cfms is WAY out of its efficiency range. That 800 cfm rating is at like 65% efficiency. I plan on staying in my 75% efficiency range which will actually yield ~652 cfms @ 15psi and support ~450HP. Here's what I mean See this flow map: http://64.225.76.178/catalog/compmaps/Fig9.gif This is my 60-1 wheel. Take notice at the very inner ring. That is the "sweet spot" where a turbo is most effective and most efficient. That inner ring represents the 75% efficiency area. Now look to the left at the pressure ratio segments. Go to 2.00 . That represents 15psi. You will see the ring is right at the axis that the 2.00 pressure ratio lines up at. Now for the 800 cfms figure: http://64.225.76.178/catalog/compmaps/Fig9.gif See the very last oval. Now take your same 2.00 area to the left and draw a straight line across it. The very last oval and where the line meet is the 800cfm figure. WAY out of its efficiency range. That is how turbos are rated. So in essence a 16G flows 505 cfms, but it's way out of its efficiency range. In its range I would say the output is more like 375 or so cfms. What does this all mean in Mikes little world? This particular turbo is capable of making more cfms @15psi in its efficiency range than say a 20G fully maxed out. The advantage to a larger trim is more efficiency at lower boost levels. Not necessarily how many cfms the turbo can make max. It is very misleading the way turbos are rated. When choosing a turbo you want to look at what it makes in its usuable efficiency range for what power figure one is looking for. Just cranking up the boost is not enough if the trim is too small for the set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted March 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 You run a total of 2880cc's of fuel/sec? Or do you intend to run larger injectors? What HP are you expecting to achieve? That turbo makes my 19c seem like a toy!! I am running MPI. I run 4- 75lb injectors. FUSO IC, 2.5" IC pipes, bla bla 3000+cc's of fuel available I want 300HP comfortably at the wheels. Anything else will be a welcomed blessing. But for NOW all I want is 300 RWHP without having to run GOBS of boost and NO NOS! I'd really LOVE to hit 400RWHP but then I'll start breaking stuff and never driving it. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 I thot i know how too read them but i am not totaly sure, what do the #'s on the side and bottom actualy mean? PSI bar..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted April 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Lizzord the left numbers are the pressure ratio. So 2.00 would be about 15 psi. BAsically how much boost. The lower numbers on GARRETT turbos show the lb/min the trim can produce. Add a 0 to the end of the number and that is about how much HP a turbo can make. For example the 60-1 map I have posted will support a max of ~600. The most the turbo can flow is 60 lb/min to convert to CFM on GARRET: every 10lb/min is equal to 144.7178 so in the 60-1 case you would take 144.7178 X 6 to find the maximum CFM output @ 15psi. Mitsu rates their turbo differently: multiply every 0.10 m 3/s by 211.8882 to get CFM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMWTech Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Mike, I've been educating my self by reading Garret posts about the turbos and such and the posts here because i know nothing about them. Great job on this post explaining things!! Speaking of which I just found and Incredible article on the 'Modified Mag' that is currently on the shelves at your locale borders and such. The go over all the ' twists and turns in choosing the right turbo, I was glued to artcile its fairly long. I'll get a copy of it up on the site once I get a lil spare time. Now for the second part of my post.: After going to our meet in Orlando this weekend and talking with a few knowledgable fellow starquesters....We came to the conclusion that I am pushing My 20g-TD05 to its far upper limits, way out of its efficiency range. The amount of heat it creates it way more than id like. So im gonna go the garret route and i didnt know who was making manifolds that will fit out cars. you can chad can make them? What about the downpipes? What type of external wastegate? I'd like to build a turbo setup that will @ 700CFM at about the same effeciency range you are at, about 65% or so. I'd also like to minimize the lag if possible. I am well aware that our tranny will definitely not support that power, since a turbu like this would yield well over 500 horse on my current setup....Thanks for your input!! -Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 So is pressure ratio half a bar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Not exactly, its pressure ratio (PR) compared to atomspehric. At sea leve you are at 1 atomosphere which is 14.7 psi. Thus at 1 PR you are actuall at 0 psi of boost because the car would be at 1 atmosphere already with out the turbo. With a PR of 2 you will be at 14.7 psi of boost. The 14.7 psi from the atmosphere plus the additional 14.7 psi from the turbo. As your elevation gets higher the atomsphere changes. As elevation rises the pressure drops ( I think) and so in Colorado say the atmospheric pressure is only 12 psi. If you had a turbo with an PR of 2 the turbo would only produce say 12 psi. I'm guessing about CO's atmospheric pressure, but you get the point. Hope this doesn't confuse you more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted April 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Mike,   I've been educating my self by reading Garret posts about the turbos and such and the posts here because i know nothing about them. Great job on this post explaining things!! Speaking of which I just found and Incredible article on the 'Modified Mag' that is currently on the shelves at your locale borders and such. The go over all the ' twists and turns in choosing the right turbo, I was glued to artcile its fairly long. I'll get a copy of it up on the site once I get a lil spare time.   Now for the second part of my post.:  After going to our meet in Orlando this weekend and talking with a few knowledgable fellow starquesters....We came to the conclusion that I am pushing My 20g-TD05 to its far upper limits, way out of its efficiency range. The amount of heat it creates it way more than id like. So im gonna go the garret route and i didnt know who was making manifolds that will fit out cars. you can chad can make them? What about the downpipes? What type of external wastegate?   I'd like to build a turbo setup that will @ 700CFM at about the same effeciency range you are at, about 65% or so. I'd also like to minimize the lag if possible.  I am well aware that our tranny will definitely not support that power, since a turbu like this would yield well over 500 horse on my current setup....Thanks for your input!! -Neil Chad, Shawn Silva and South Florida Performance are 3 places that can make you a Garrett flanged header. If you are near MIC turbo in FL see if you can talk with Mike there. The downpipes are going to have to be made custom. I have a full 3" system on now but will be buying a few manderal bends and making my own. If you notice the pics above the T4 split tang housings run a V clamp so there is no flange like the Mitsu turbos. I'm getting a 40mm HKS external wastegate from Chad. There's plenty of WG out there, Tial being one of the more popular ones lately it seems. Here's a ballpark MAX figure for the TO4B trim lines TRIM    ------ S -    507cfms@15psi V -    723cfms@15psi H -    680cfms@15psi 60-1 - 796cfms@15psi 62-1 - 868cfms@15psi  Don't go too big on the hot side or you'll have a lag monster! Also look into the TO4E line. The largest wheel is the 60 wheel. Not to be confused with the 60-1 wheel. The 60 wheel is a little wee bit smaller than the 60-1. I chose the TO4B line because it is similar to the TDO6 and above turbos but has trims available that a 20G would never see. Both the hot and cold side along with the split tang T4 housing. I ran the 60 wheel in my 20G hybrid and that sucker really crammed some air! But kinda bottlnecked for such a trim size on the hot side IMHO. You start going bigger than a TO4B IMHO and your starting to get into some real big turbos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 I am geting a new turbo one with a smaller exhaust side. Here is what i currently have intake: .60 AR 60 trim compressor Center section: Small shaft water and oil cooled Exhaust: .63 AR and stage 5 wheel (way over sized this is why i am replacing the turbo should be a stage 3) I had a turbo shop look up what turbo i should have and i gave them all the info on my engine and said i want 3k spool up and make about 300rw, and they called and asked turbonics and they said my turbo that i have IS the idea turbo for the mpi 2.6 with my mods but the exhaust wheel should be a stage 3 not a huge 5, should spool 1,000 - 1300 rpm faster spool with the smaller wheel What turbo i am geting: Well it turns out the turbo shop could get the one turboincs said was perfect but it was fairly price so i am geting a diff one. Good news a larger turbo is cheaper New turbo Intake: .60 AR 60-1 Compressor ;D with polished housing Center Section: large polished shaft, oil only cooled (will clean the engine bay up some and hopely help keep the coolant temps down) Exhaust: .63 AR stage 3 turbine Jet-Hot Coated Houings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 oil only cooled (will clean the engine bay up some and hopely help keep the coolant temps down) You will still have to cool the turbo so what it doesn't get from the water, it will have to be replaced by the oil. You may want to switch to synthetic oil or change it more frequently. The oil will have to take alot more abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 Yep i know, i relpace it very often all ready, and i plan on upgrading the oil cooler too one at lest twice as large (also going too relocated it too where the side inlets on the air dam are (same spot the tranny cooler is) it will clean the engine bay up some plus work better. On a side note the 60-1 looks like it will make about 50-100 more hp at the same psi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted April 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 I'm oil only also. Oil only on Garrett turbos provides 50% more oil to the bearing than oil/coolant because the channel isn't split up. Coolant in the turbo does little beyond cooling the turbo after shutdown. It boils out the heat so the bearings don't bake. There's a point where coolant can't disipate extreme temperatures. Just gotta pay special attention to idleing the car before you shut it down. Lizzord...welcome to the 60-1 club. ;D Our turbos are somewhat similar it seems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 Turbonics said with the turbo i am geting will have about 300 more lag then the 60 trim, but about 800 less then the 60trim with stage 5 wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts