JNZTuning Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 After looking around for some time at MPI manifold offerings for these cars and not seeing what I wanted I'm contemplating adding Starquest Sheetmetal Intake Manifolds to our lineup. I'm just curious before I go this route of designing one whether or not there would be enough interest to make it worthwhile. The offering would only be a Manifold and Fuel Rail setup so that you could get your MPI project started and complete it however you like (Mega-squirt, Haltech, etc.). I could add injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, etc., if wanted on a case-by-case basis, but am more interested in seeing if a worthwhile amount of people would be interested in said unit before I commit to doing a prototype. I'll have an estimate on pricing in a week or so, but the other manifolds we have can be seen @ our sister-company's website (in house) @: http://www.jmfabrications.com/catalog/adva...ywords=manifold Thanks! JoshJNZ Tuning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmstsi Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 depending on price i would be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 You know i'm down. No ugly crap ethier... haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNZTuning Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 No, I guarantee it won't be "ugly". ;-) They'll be offered like the rest of the ones we offer (polished or unpolished). I'm waiting on the 1st manifold flange to start on the prototype. Price will be dictated by materials/time it takes to make the 1st unit. I'll have concrete news in a week or two, but just want an idea of interest on these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNZTuning Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Just so you guys know an "approximate" price, it would be similar to the SRT4 manifolds in price ($650, est.) to give you a safe estimate. This would be the manifold (unpolished), and fuel rail setup ready to drop injectors in. The only thing up in the air is how we're going to incorportate the coolant port factors. We'll possibly offer some different plenum sizes to allow people to custom-tailor the manifold to what they're actually going to do with the car (mild street to full-race). Nitrous bungs will also be available like with any of our other manifolds, and all significant vacuum ports will be incorporated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Mine is ~$700, so you are in the right ball park. Just don't get into a position where you need to sell any great volume to cover your costs. There will be customers, but no great volume. It will work best for you to just make them per order and offer them individualy, not to setup a GP on them. I've tired, just not enough poeple, with enough $$, all at the same time. http://webpages.charter.net/catsamuel/DCP01008.JPGhttp://webpages.charter.net/catsamuel/DCP01010.JPGhttp://webpages.charter.net/catsamuel/DCP01011.JPGhttp://webpages.charter.net/catsamuel/DCP01012.JPGhttp://webpages.charter.net/catsamuel/DCP01013.JPGhttp://webpages.charter.net/catsamuel/DCP01014.JPGhttp://webpages.charter.net/catsamuel/DCP01015.JPGhttp://webpages.charter.net/catsamuel/DCP01007.JPG If you can, try to use the ford 4.6L TB so people with magnas can switch over. Also, try to use a stock T-stat location. this plenum 4" and is is ~200 cubic inches of internal volume, it works very well and no apparent side effects.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 MPI-PRO-4AH made of aluminum. Four injector multi- port injection manifold. * Includes billet fuel rail PRICE $985.00 http://www.angelfire.com/mech/edwardcase00/H-4S.jpg Looks nice and those that have it are happy with it. A bit spending for not having a stock T-stat, but that is their design choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNZTuning Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I apologize, Chad. I didn't know that there was an alternative out there other then the overpriced Hurricane stuff, or the Magna unit which (IMHO) is kinda mediocre. If you'd like, I'll remove this thread. I didn't mean to step on toes, and I understand your chagrine with selling these to the Starquest public. I didn't expect a whole lot of response, but I wanted to offer up something that looked and performed well that placed itself between the Magna and Hurricane (although, I honestly think that it'll outperform the Hurricane design on all-out cars with the larger plenum). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I dont like the fip one at all, I'd rather the intake runners run into the side like chads, it's simple and clean. The EIP manifold is another sexy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Also, I'd like to add having the injectors put at an angle looks better also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNZTuning Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Ack! Don't bring up EIP to me. ;-) It'll be clean, don't worry. I just have to sit down and figure out volume vs. volumetric efficiency on these things for the runners and plenum, then we'll go to design phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestforQuest Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I'd be interested. Keep us updated. I agree with emagdnim. I would think the angled injectors would allow more fuel to end up in the combustion chamber then clinging to the intake, also with the intake runners into the side. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I'm encouraging you to offer a new product :!: I don't sell many, and neither will anyone else, but if members have choices, they will ultimatly feel better about the one they end up getting bacause it was not thier "only" choice, knid of a human nature thing. In a thread in the MPI forums, I did the measurements on the magna, it has a supprisingly small pelnum, about 1/2 the volume of mine. I was just trying to warn you not to invest a lot of time and $$ with the hopes of a quick return. To make it affordable, you'll have to spread the cost over ~20 units, you'll be lucky to sell 10 in a year. The material to make one is ~$70, it's the time that costs $$$. For those who want 45* angled injectors, it's a cool idea, but it's not really gonna happen and still work right, and also be cost effective. It's a packaging issue, to prevent the injector body from protruding into the runner, you'll end up with the nozzle a good 2" from the runner, a lot of fuel will end up on the injector boss walls and it will condense and puddle. trust me, I've mocked one up that way the pictures don't show it very well because they are 2D, but the injectors are 20* to the runner in my design, that's as far as you can go with out the packaging issue I mentioned. With mine, I have the injector nozzle flush with the runner wall. Some wil argue that several OEM manifolds are built with 45* injectors. That is true, but I've seen a few and every one had the injector base protruding into the runner. those are also right up against the head flange and there is another packaging issue with that, you have the flange studs in the way. This is why the magna has the injectors offset to one side, which make the fuel rail more complicated (and more $$) to manufature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyTSI Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 just offering 3rd party advice the hurricane may appear to be expensive, but doesnt it come with a TB, injectors, and other stuff? personally i think with your current abilites as a business you should offer a complete intake "kit". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 According their the website, all you get is the manifold and rail for that price, the other stuff comes packaged in their ~$2200 KIT, along with the management system. their plenum appears to be ~130-140 cubic inches in volume. It is by observation of the pictutres and the scale of the parts shown to be 3-1/2" OD by ~15" long Injectos can be gotten for $220-260, and the same TB can be gotten new for $110 + $35 for the TPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Keep in mind too, I don't polish mine, I just glass-bead blast it to a satin finnish (unelss specified to be left in a smooth raw state). FIP does polish thiers for that price, and it does look good. Polished aluminum is only good for a few weeks of normal use before humidity starts to take it's toll and you'll be after it all the time keepign it looking like that. It's better to be a satin finnish or powdercoated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyTSI Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 cool chad.. i guess i was thinking about the prices they had when it first hit the market. I still think to get the most people interested make a "intake" kit. take care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNZTuning Posted February 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 The intake manifold/rail setup will be the "base" kit. We can add to this however you would like. T-body, injectors, Regulator, IC piping, etc. I want to offer a "bare bones" kit for those who'd like to build the rest themselves, but can offer it however you'd like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lidoidol Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Great thread, awesome to see new peoducts being developed for these casrs!!! 2 points: I have done some airflow tests on various designs, the straight runners into the side, like I have on my 700hp project motor are great for hp but kill torque. This is one of the reasons the Magna works so good on the street, which brings me to point 2: The only two reasons for going with a sheetmetal intake is A. Looks(read BLING) or B. you plan on making over 450hp. The Magna has been proven time and time again. I am not trying to down either one of your guys products just stating what I have found. With that said I cant wait to see what the finished product is going to look like. PS: Chad, sorry but its pretty darn easy to get the injectors on a 45* you just notch the leading edge of the runner on the head... the spray should not be hitting the walls of the bung..if it is either your boss is to tall or you need an injector with a tighter fan or projected tip... a properly engineered 45* is far superior to the 90* I'll have some pics up soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNZTuning Posted February 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Could you share your test data with us? I'd be interested in seeing results on a G54B setup. As far as on all of the other cars we've tested (dyno #s, not flow bench (DSMs, SRT4s, VWs, Evos)) even lower powered cars have gained a decent results (with much better designed intakes then the Magnas straight from the factory). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNZTuning Posted February 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 One other aspect to consider: If you were doing airflow tests with a flowbench, don't expect the results to automatically correlate with a forced induction setup. The gains in plenum size alone on a forced induction motor will differ greatly then what you see on an NA motor or flow bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lidoidol Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Could you share your test data with us? I'd be interested in seeing results on a G54B setup. As far as on all of the other cars we've tested (dyno #s, not flow bench (DSMs, SRT4s, VWs, Evos)) even lower powered cars have gained a decent results (with much better designed intakes then the Magnas straight from the factory). As soon as my data is fully compiled it will be available to view by everyone. I dont really want to make any recomendations 'cause I have yet to find the perfect design myself. We have cut apart a few heads, intakes, and the like. most of my comparisons have been 3D computer generated models based on what is readily available. I am also noticing what people are making on there cars and you can clearly see by there numbers that the torque is not as strong on the currently available intakes as with the Magna. Dont get me wrong, the Magna is by no means perfect, but it is a good choice for a daily driven car. Now this motor is a long stroke truck block as we all know, so for a street car why not capitalize on its strengths and make as much torque as possible! Right now I am toying with a completely untouched concept... a destroked 2.6... thats still a 2.6 roughly... say Hello square bore/stroke ratio!!!! As a hint... there is a readily available sleeve to make this happen...which may open up a whole new world of available pistons!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfitts Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I have the FIP complete setup and I love it! The polish job is one of the best i've ever seem. It has been on my car for awhile now here in Hot Florida and it still looks like I just pulled out of the box BLING! Just wipe it down and thats it. Well wearth every penny!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siance Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Could you share your test data with us? I'd be interested in seeing results on a G54B setup. As far as on all of the other cars we've tested (dyno #s, not flow bench (DSMs, SRT4s, VWs, Evos)) even lower powered cars have gained a decent results (with much better designed intakes then the Magnas straight from the factory). As soon as my data is fully compiled it will be available to view by everyone. I dont really want to make any recomendations 'cause I have yet to find the perfect design myself. We have cut apart a few heads, intakes, and the like. most of my comparisons have been 3D computer generated models based on what is readily available. I am also noticing what people are making on there cars and you can clearly see by there numbers that the torque is not as strong on the currently available intakes as with the Magna. Dont get me wrong, the Magna is by no means perfect, but it is a good choice for a daily driven car. Now this motor is a long stroke truck block as we all know, so for a street car why not capitalize on its strengths and make as much torque as possible! Right now I am toying with a completely untouched concept... a destroked 2.6... thats still a 2.6 roughly... say Hello square bore/stroke ratio!!!! As a hint... there is a readily available sleeve to make this happen...which may open up a whole new world of available pistons!!! I see what you are trying to do, and i respect that...but the g54b has tq to spare, the weakness of the g54b is getting it breathe..meaning a engine that has a larger useble power curve....imgaine making power from say 3500 rpm all the way to 7000-8000 rpm.. usebale power meaning it's pulling strong the whole way..thats what we need for the g54b...now a honda whould need more usable tq, which it has none to begin with..i've said before and i'll say it again...a g54b starquest with 600hp and 500ft pounds will beat a g5b4 with 500hp 600ft pounds in the 1/4.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I was trying to think of a way to respond to that quote earlier today, you pretty much nailed my thoughts Siance 8) Why focus on a motors strong points and neglect it's weakness when it's weakness is fixalbe with a fairly straight forward intake design change, then you have the best of both worlds. I have staright runners that are ~7 1/2" long and ~ 1-5/8" ID, and I don't feel like I've given up any fun in driving (low end torque), but I've picked up a good 2000 more RPM in my power band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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