Electromotive TEC tips and tricks

[artinist]

car is up and running like an antelope. here is one coil setup electromotive will never endorse

 

i re-did the wiring that runs from the TEC II to the remote coils and also hooked up the circuit that feeds the factor tachometer. I used some 600v certified wires to make sure there will not be an interference between the two channels.

 

this is the diagram provided by joel that made the stock tachometer work.

http://home.earthlink.net/~antimpower/imag...ach_circuit.jpg

 

and here is the actual electronics:

http://home.earthlink.net/~antimpower/images/TECII/tecII01.jpg

 

here are the connectors being used as prongs that go into the coils. i had to narrow them a bit

http://home.earthlink.net/~antimpower/images/TECII/tecII02.jpg

 

i guess some moisture had gotten i my old setup and corroded the connectors. I used some dielectric greese on the connectors this time and sealed them good.

http://home.earthlink.net/~antimpower/images/TECII/tecII03.jpg

 

here is the new setup:

http://home.earthlink.net/~antimpower/images/TECII/tecII05.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~antimpower/images/TECII/tecII06.jpg

 

the two wires branching off the black negative wires are for the tach feed.

http://home.earthlink.net/~antimpower/images/TECII/tecII08.jpg

[heefner]

so you are runing your coil packs seperate from the rest of the tec. Thats a  good idea.  Did electromotive know and support this?  Just curious. "knock on wood" I haven't had any problem with mine but it would be interesting later down the road to put the electronics inside the car like the tec 3.

[artinist]

no they don't know about it. i told them i had taken the coils off to switch them around to try to diagnose the problem (which i did).

 

we asked them a long time ago if it was possible and they said there is nothing that would make it not work but they dont recommend or support it.

 

the unit is not under any warranty of any kind so its no big deal. i paid them to fix it anyway.

 

i assume they also wouldn't recommend the tachometer setup I have ;D

[artinist]

so here is who we having using TEC units ha?

 

1. heefner

2. Artinist

3. AustinTSI

4. Mingo1

5. wolvorine4

[Mingo1]

Hey Artinist how is the car coming along?  Was Ric able to help in the right direction?  

[artinist]

yea, he was a pretty cool guy. took his time and explaind some thing that I should try. i was gonna take the car to the dyno tonight but the shop guys decided to go to the track so it will have to be next week. cant wait. :-[

 

thanks for hooking me up.

[Mingo1]

no problem glad I could be of some help.

[artinist]

i have just replaced these Taylor Pro spark plug wires that i thought were good with some new MSD wires and the car is running much better now. the old wires were several years old but were not used much but when i measured the resistance, i was like wow. between 11000-17000 ohms each. the new wires are 110-160 ohms.

 

the part number i got was MSD-31183 which are black. they come in red also. theya are around $90 for that universal V8 kit from summit.

 

all that resistance can not be good for the coils either, i wonder if thats what caused one of my coils to burn out.

 

y'all should check your wires.

[heefner]

Art are they solid core or Carbon core?  IIRC Electromotive recommends Carbon core.  110-160 ohms for the whole wire or per foot?  110 ohms for the whole wire is awesome.  Accell came out with a wire last year that was advertised as 300 ohms/foot and that was supposed to be one of the best in the industry. Great find.

[artinist]

its 110-160 for the whole wire. its not solid core. solid core has major EMI.

 

The MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Wire is "the" performance wire.Engineered from the inside out, the 8.5 offers everything you have everwanted in a wire; incredibly low resistance without electronic interference! In a single 12 inch length of Super Conductor Wire there is only 40 - 50 ohms of resistance! That is the lowest resistance of any helically wound wire. To accomplish this, we use a copper alloy conductor due to it's great voltage carrying capabilities. The low resistance results in less loss in spark energy so more reaches the spark plug. The conductor is wound extremely tight around a special center core. So tight in fact, that there is over 40 feet of conductor wrapped into a single foot of plug wire. This winding procedure, combined with a ferro-magnetic impregnated center core, produces an extremely effective Electro Magnetic Interference (EMI) "choke".

This choke, or suppression capability, keeps the EMI inside the wire where it cannot interfere with other electronics on your vehicle.

[derrickmd18]

Hi I wanted to ask you I'm currently re tuning my car with a wideband

02 sensor.  I'm into the single digits in the VE table with tec 2 at

15psi.  should I go into the - with VE or lower my TOG?  I'm currently

at a 11.3 TOG with a -.875 IOT.  my VE is at 2% at 200kPa and 7% at

230 kPa.  AFR is in the 10:1 with 22-24 advance at 200kPa and 23 at

230kPa.  think I should go into the - in the VE table or lower my TOG?

[heefner]

I have my TOG set at 9.0 with an IOT of -.150 . I'm running 72lb/hr injectors.  Injector size will influence TOG time among other things.  It won't hurt to go into the negative in the VE table if you hit F2 you can see it as an absolute value or precentage value.  

[derrickmd18]

ok.  I have 52lb injectors.  i'm going out tonigth or tomorrow to turn the car and lean it out

[xtremeboost2]

just curious art and heefner what map sensors are u guys running and what kind of power are u guys putting down.  i am also will be running a tec 3 and just wondering what  kind of power you guys are doing also the msd tac driver will help with the tac signal

[heefner]

I'm running a 3 bar map at 24psi and getting a little over 300whp on 93 pump gas.  I'm not sure what Art's map is, I thought he was using a 2 bar but that would only get him to 15 psi so he must be running a 3 bar map as well to hit 19psi which I think is what his last tune on 91 pump gas was.  His number were around 270 whp.

[heefner]

I just read that Sport Compact article.  Thanks for posting those 2 links Art!

 

They mention "...based on previous experiences with Electromotive engine management systems, tells us that 13.5:1 is about as rich as we would ever want to run under boost."  This is on a 9.7:1 10 psi boosted subie.  To me that seems verry lean.  On the other hand, I do remember my car started to pick up power in the low boost areas the leaner we made it.  I stopped at 13.1 and 8-10 psi well below 3000rpm for fear of detonation and or metldown.  Now I'm just thinking that maybe it might be worth looking into this time around.  Anyone else have any ideas?

 

Something completely unrelated... it mentions choosing your MAP and RPM breakpoints.

 

 "Ideally, you want to set your breakpoints to the engine speeds at which torque output changes, because when torque output changes, fuel and ignition demands change as well. When torque output is "flat" between two rpm points, fuel and ignition requirements remain, for the most part, static"

 

 I had never really thought about this and for the most part tried to devide the range into equal slices.  When picking MAP breakpoints you want to choose the lowest number it will see (coast down vaccum), and then choose points where the car will be running ie; idle, cruise, 0 boost/vaccum and then the values in which your torque numbers change the most to fill the rest of your spots.  This is where the dyno really comes in handy.  

 

Sorry this is so long winded.  I was boared at work and figured some guys may be too lazy to read the articles so maybe pulling important stuff out would be benificial :-/  

 

Just curious Art, did you use a wideband o2 when tunning and if so, what target A/F were you tunning for?

[artinist]

yea i used a wideband on the dyno but made some changes on the go with my butt dyno since then. we had an family event at our house this weekend and i was busy all week and didnt get to the dyno. i will go this wee for sure.

 

I use a 2 bar map. i compensate with the VE table. i think its much better for drivability tuning and makes no difference at the top end.

 

ya that 13.5 ratio is a joke. i am around 12.0 under high boost. i have found this setup likes it really rich.

 

here are some guidelines that I have compiled after talking to some TEC tuners who seemed to know what they were talking about.

 

a. disable acceleration enrichment or set it really low if you are working on turning drivability.

 

b. set VE table to absolute and set the values to 70 for all the fields below100 kpa

 

c. set the EGO to come on above 80 centigragde

 

d. set IOT at .650 and adjust .1 at a time

 

one thing i am a little confused on still is: min inj turn on time. i been told an avg number for that is 1.2

[derrickmd18]

Hi. heefner  your in Baltimore MD so am I.  maybe we can meet up some time to share tec 2 tips.

[Mingo1]

Sure wish I tuned my own setup so I could be some help.

[heefner]

Sure wish I tuned my own setup so I could be some help.

 

 

me too!

[kwak]

Wow, after months of searching I finally found people running TEC2 on these motors.

 

A couple of thoughts from what I've read in the thread so far...

 

I'm using the TOG and IOT generated by the WinTec2 wizard.  The diagonal of my VE table is zero.  Above the diagonal is positive numbers and below are negative numbers (Correction view).  These were figured from looking at the logs and seeing how much EGO correction was being applied.  Keeping EGO correction near zero lets this correction respond faster.

 

From the wideband sensor at the dyno mine likes AFR of 13:1 with stock turbo at 14 psi on 92 octane.

 

artinist, thanks for posting your calibration files.  I'm interested in looking at them.

 

Two comments from artinist's tuning tips list:

a. For drivability tuning, another possibility it to just ignore the first one second of acceleration in the logs since that is when acceleration enrichment kicks in.

b. I don't understand the 70 setting for VE at all.  My VE table is based off of reading my logs (EGO correction) and changing the VE table so EGO correction is near zero.

 

I did a lot of acceleration tuning and mine is pretty good with minimal EGO correction.

 

What are you guys using for startup enrichments?

[heefner]

For 1 sec enrichments the temp based is set at 70% and constant is 15% with a fixed time of 2ms. The PWO is active below 20 degrees.  This isn't my daily driver and it rarely leaves the garage past early november untill late march.  20 sec temp based is 25% and constant is set to 10%  I just noticed my turn on time for the fuel pump is set to 20s which could probably be set to half that.

[kwak]

Thanks, I'll give those a try.  After I initially got the engine to start I just never fiddled with what I had done to get it better.

[artinist]

something weired is going on with my setup. for the past few days, in a couple of occasions when i have turned off the car after its been at normal operating temp and tried to start it back up a few minutes later i heard the injectors ticking before i started the engine.

 

this is when i put the switch to ON and the engine was hot enough for the fan to turn on. so i went and disconnected the fan plug while it was doing that and the injectors stopped ticking. the fans are running on a differnt circuit of the batter. i dont see how this is affacting the TEC.

 

the engine actually fluds when i do this and its hard to start so its spraying fuel when this happens.

 

it has happend a few times but doesn't happen every time.

 

any ideas?

[heefner]

sounds like a wireing issue. Check all your grounds. Maybe current is back feeding into the injectors. Dose the same problem happen when the car is running and the fans come on?