kev Posted March 11, 2002 Report Share Posted March 11, 2002 I'm currently debating on when to start fixing up the few rust areas on my car. I have three spots on the rear quarters of my vehicle that are rusted. I fixed all of these three years ago and they are just starting to come back through. My previous fix was to just grind out as much rust as possible, apply rustmort on what was left, fiberglass and apply a thin layer of bondo to smooth everything out. Well it didn't last for too long. I guess that one winter that I actually drove the car as my daily driver did it in. So on the next paintjob, I will be cutting out these pieces and welding in new ones. My question is: These pieces are fairly small, so I was thinking about welding in smaller chunks of the quarters rather than the full quarter. Is this wise? Will it be easier to do this? Next question: What is your guys preferred method of replacing sheetmetal? I don't have a welder or anything yet but am in the market for one. I was reading up on brazing and that seems like it will work the best. They make a vise grip kind of pliers to crimp in a step so that the new piece of metel just rests on the step and you braze it in with a torch and a flux coated brass rod. This won't require as much heat, thus helping prevent warpage and also the brass will prevent rusting at the welds. What is everyone's thoughts about this? My other choice is the good old mig welder which isn't too hard to use as well, so I have been told. Another plus about brazing is you can join to dissimilar metals. I was slightly thinking about replacing the "trouble" areas with SST instead of carbon steel. However this will require a lot of shaping and forming i lieu of just finding a good conquest quarter and cutting out the pieces I need. Please let me know all thoughts and opinions. kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starion_t Posted March 12, 2002 Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 The best way to put in smaller pieces is to make your patch panel first then hold it over your area to be fixed then mark around it. Then cut inside of your line.You will want to weld it in but just spot welds. jump around alot to keep the heat down and the panel will stay straight. brazing acually puts alot of heat into the panel causing warpage (you have to heat up the panels to get a good braze). anouther way is to cut the hole smaller than the patch panel and flange it but this creats a area for moisture to collect (between the panels) and cause rust down the road, but it is a little easyer to do than the butt meathod. if you do the flange style remember to jump around with little tack welds or you will warp the panel. hope this helps later TOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conquestpa Posted March 12, 2002 Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Yes spot welding it would work best, just make sure you clean it out real well, and seal it so nothing gets up in there and causes more corrosion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev Posted March 12, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2002 Ok thanks for info. So let me get this straight. The best way to do it is to just make a ton of small spot welds instead of creating a bead and seeming the whole thing? So I just keep tacking it up in a random pattern until all of the gap is filled? Then I grind it smooth, thin layer of putty, sand, and paint? I guess it doesn't matter what type of welder I have for this? A regular stick welder should even do the trick. Thanks again, kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starion_t Posted March 14, 2002 Report Share Posted March 14, 2002 kev you got it right! you will want to use a mig (wire feed) welder, you will get alot less contamination and you can use less heat(amprage or voltage on wire feed) use regular wire with a argon, co2 mixture gas and you get a cleaner weld and maybe even less grinding. and when you grind jump around (grinding generates alot of heat to) hope this helps you out TOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_Silva Posted March 14, 2002 Report Share Posted March 14, 2002 You will want to use a mig welder for this type of repair. Â A stick(ARC) will burn through your metal and cause slag which has to be chipped off before grinding or filling. Â ARC is very hard to control and usually quite high heat related. When you rent/buy/beg/borrow/steal a mig welder, be sure you are using Argon as a gas, it will keep the impurities to a minimum and make for a much cleaner weld. Ohhh btw, I would not consider TIG for this work, as it requires very tight clearances and very clean work (scrubbing with stainless brush). It also requires very good hand to eye coordination. Take care Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_Silva Posted March 14, 2002 Report Share Posted March 14, 2002 You beat me too it Starion-T.....but only by a minute or so. lol Couldnt have said it better myself. Should we recommend an .023 wire as well? Take care Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev Posted March 14, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2002 Ok thanks for all of the help. So I will look into a MIG welder that used argon gas (as opposed to just a wire feed welder with a flux coated rod?). Then I will just make a ton of tack welds in a random pattern until I completely fill in the gaps. Again thanks for helping. I'm a newbie in welding. I have done tons of bodywork but always just the fiberglass or putty method. Now I just need to find a beater car to practice on instead of starting fresh with my car. kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conquestpa Posted March 15, 2002 Report Share Posted March 15, 2002 also its not necessary to put a ton of spots welds on the patch. If you have a square patch, the spots only need to be in all 4 corners, not all around the patch... How hard is it to take off the fenders on a quest? I know theres the bolts under the hood but what else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev Posted March 15, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2002 To remove a fender. First the bumper cover and spoiler have to come off. If you want to pull the whole bumper you can, I find it easier to just pull the cover however. Then there are the bolts up in the engine bay, one down on the rockerpanel, one near where the bumper comes by the fender, and one in the door jam. You also have to take the screws off of the inner fender. Then the fender can come out. Its not that hard to remove, taking off the bumper and spoiler is the most time consuming. I don't really like the idea of just welding a patch panel by spoting it in a few areas and filling up the rest with putty. In my experience, letting two metals not be secured by barely anything but putty will just crack the putty in time from vibration. I would want to fill at least 75% of the seam up if not all of it. If it just takes a ton of spot welds to fill it up without warping the metal, I will do it. I'm sure there will be a little more grinding involved but its better than dealing with a warped quarter panel. Again thanks for all of the help guys. kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_88_Starion Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 I pretty far from being an expert, but in high school shop where I teach, we've got a Lenco spot welder that works great. You'd generally want to "round off" the patch, rather than having a square or rectangular one(easier to bondo over). Grind to bare metal(NOT TOO HEAVY HANDED, THO), both the body panel and the patch material, then spot weld them in. You may be able to rent a spot welder, simple to use, no hood, you can see what your doing. Just two handles with contact tips. One handle has a rubber trip switch, spring loaded off. You position the contacts(about an inch apart, at least- you don't want them touching when you tap the switch) and it spot welds in two places. Work your way around the patch until it's solid. Grind it fairly smoothe and bondo. If your not covering all the bare metal with bondo, spray it with self-etching primer to help keep it from rusting (front and back, if possible). You will need to repaint it fairly soom, as even the self-etching primer isn't totally water proof. Only the urethane type that we mix and shoot with a gun is completely waterproof. But, if the holes are less than an inch in diameter you might try using Fibrehair. It's like a body filler with fibreglas strands in it. You can sand or grind both sides and use the rust killers(Extend), then use the Fibrehair on BOTH sides of the puka(Hawaiian for hole) using rubber or nitrile GLOVES. It can be sanded and covered with body filler and holds pretty well on smaller holes. Good luck. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphing89TSI Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Cleaning off some rust from my quest. Small amounts, 1/2 of a dime. I used a butterfly sander and a dremel to get out the rust. I went to bare metal and primed. My question is: I made a hole in the sheet metal about 1/2 the size of a smiley face. Can I just bondo and sand? Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev Posted March 28, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Thanks for the info, Dave. That will come in handy. A spot welder does sound like the easiest thing to use. I had a few quarter size rust areas in which I ground out before and used a rust mort on. I filled them with fiber hair and a light coat of bondo over that. Well guess what, the rust is back and the fiberglass is lifting. It is almost 4 years later but it is back. This is the reason why I am cutting and welding. kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilber Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 here a few  shots of my bodywork... http://www.rpi.edu/~berezi/quest/quest_web/dcp_1370.jpg http://www.rpi.edu/~berezi/quest/quest_web/dcp_1371.jpg http://www.rpi.edu/~berezi/quest/quest_web/dcp_1372.jpg http://www.rpi.edu/~berezi/quest/quest_web/dcp_1373.jpg http://www.rpi.edu/~berezi/quest/quest_web/dcp_1374.jpg http://www.rpi.edu/~berezi/quest/quest_web/dcp_1375.jpg http://www.rpi.edu/~berezi/quest/quest_web/dcp_1376.jpg http://www.rpi.edu/~berezi/quest/quest_web/dcp_1377.jpg or for entire album go to http://www.rpi.edu/~berezi/quest/quest_web/ALBUM1.HTML more pics and final product  http://photos.yahoo.com/ilber2   ( my conquestspaint job) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starion_t Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 Spot weld works only if you have no proublems. A weld all the way around is the way to go for no future problems. later TOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilber Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 as u can see on second from the last picture it was welded/filled all around from inside but was spot weldedinfront to minimize heat warping...after that shae up the patch fiberglass/bondo things and volia! yep my car spent 510 days in body sop:),but everything is spotless:) ilber<-owner of a 25k paint job/restoration of the shell conquest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Lazarek Posted July 2, 2002 Report Share Posted July 2, 2002 Body Panals typicaly rust from the inside out, especialy on starquests. The best way to do it would be to take the quarter panal of and replace the entire panal and also parts of the wheel well if need be. Sand blast all the rust on the back side of the wheel well and quarter panal and properly primer or undercoat and place the new qaurter panal on. By only welding in sheet metal here and there you stand chance of rust coming back down the road, a good many years but still stands great chance of coming back, wheather it be 3 years or 13. I have done a few quests, I'm currently rebuilding/restoring my 87 TSi, aside from the sand blasting and metal work I will be filling the entire panal with urathane expansion foam to ensure no dirt/sand/water will get inside. DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88BlueTSiquest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 This is an old topic that seems to of just resurfaced, but I'll give my 2.6cents anyways. Everyone here gave some great instructions on welding, but they left out the most important one. PRACTICE. You can follow these instructions to a T, and still end up warping the body panels, or even burning through the panels. Find you a donor bad fender off a quest, cut a square out of it, and then proceed to weld it back in. Also try the same thing again, using a piece of sheetmetal you want to use as a patch panel, you might be surprised to see how easy it could be to burn right through the S/Q metal, but the patch panel remains virtually unscathed. Eventually you'll get the hang of it though. A MIG would be much better than Stick or Spot welder, as it's easier to control than a stick, and you don't have to have 'full access' to the front and back of the weld spot as you need with a spot welder. I've never used one, but I've been told that TIG's are the best for body work, as they can be set to a very low heat, and givin your hand/eye coordination can give a very uniform and controlled weld. But they also cost more and aren't usually as easily attained as a MIG. I use a Marquette 180amp body work MIG welder, but would love to get my hands on a TIG. I picked up my Marquette used for about $150, and had to buy an 80cu.ft. bottle for it at about another $120 filled with CO2/Argon blend. Just shop around, MIG's can be found pretty cheap, and you'll find more uses for one once you've learned how to use it than just this one body work job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88TAINO Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 ??? i was wondering if welding in new sheet metal would be alot more inexpensive than buying new quarter panel and so forth. also what kind off sheet metal should be used? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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