dtownmikebrown Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I got an '87 Starion last month and I'm not having too much luck getting it to run properly. The first thing I did was get the gas tank cleaned out and reconditioned. Then I replaced the battery, fuel pump, and the in tank filter. I turned the engine over by hand first to get things moving since it had been sitting for quite a while, checked the spark, and then when I tried to start it up fuel started shooting out of the TB from every angle. So I got a repair kit and rebuilt the TB and it started up on the first try. I let run for a little while and it was idling smoothly just a bit under 1000 RPM, so I figured I'd take it for a test drive and see how it would do. I noticed that there was an inline filter in the box with the new fuel pump that the previous owner had included with the car, so before I bolted up the tank I figured I'd put that on the line outside of the tank right before the fuel pump. Figured it couldn't hurt. So I drove around for about 20 minutes and noticed a loud whine coming from the rear which I assumed was the fuel pump.I had been taking it easy on the revs, but I noticed that I was losing power lower in the rev range to the point where it felt like there was a rev limiter kicking in after a certain RPM. I got it back home and found some alarming things. First, it was definitely the fuel pump making the whining noise. Next I found that the he intank filter had slipped all the way up on to the end of the inlet pipe and was probably blocking fuel from getting in. I searched for a picture of an original unit and it looks like this pipe has been hacked off and bent so that it points straight down into the tank. Third, even though it thought I was paying attention, I accidentally put the extra filter on backwards. Also, it occurred to me that there was another filter inside the engine compartment that was probably overdue to be replaced too. Here's what I've done since then: -Readjusted the fuel inlet pipe and intank filter to make sure fuel flows into it properly-Removed the extra inline filter, replaced the filter in the engine compartment-Cleaned the contacts on the injectors, replaced the connector clips with new ones, did the same thing for the fusible links The car is still up on jackstands at the moment, but I hooked everything back up and the fuel pump is still whining. If I push down hard on the throttle the engine revs up smoothly and starts making boost all the way to about 4k, and then it cuts out and won't go any further. And that's where I'm stuck. Is it possible that I burned out a brand new fuel pump that fast? Could it be the secondary injector not putting out enough fuel? Something else I'm not thinking of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjohnson Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Timing advanse in the distributor? Take it apart clean lube etc.see if that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjohnson Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Also u should have those injectors cleaned and flow tested. If anaything bench clean them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtownmikebrown Posted April 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I cleaned the injectors and it helped. I picked up a friend last night to get a second opinion and when I took off to demonstrate the problem, to my surprise it ripped right through first gear all the way to the redline with no hesitation at all. Felt good! Now sometimes if I feel it starting to cut out and I put the throttle to the floor it'll pick back up and the revs will keep climbing. The general consensus is either injectors, timing, or spark, or some mixture of the three. Here's what's on my list for today:-TPS/ISC reset-check the timing, distributor, spark plug gap-More injector cleaning We'll see if that makes things any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turboat Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 You check the cel codes yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtownmikebrown Posted April 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 -Is there an actual CEL on the dash that comes on when there's an error? Could just be burned out. If understand correctly, I need to wire up an LED to a diagnostic port and count the number of blinks. -I must have done something wrong during the TPS/ISC reset procedure because now it idles at 1100. Going to have to try that again. -I found the indicator on the engine block used to set the timing, but I couldn't for the life of me find any indication marks anywhere on the pulley. I'm planning on sticking something into the #1 spark plug well to measure when it's at TDC and then mark it myself, unless anyone knows of a better way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighterpilot Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 You check the cel codes yet I don't know where this "cel code" (Check Engine Lite) term is coming from but it has never been used until very recently by you. The Starquest's don't have one. -Is there an actual CEL on the dash that comes on when there's an error? Could just be burned out. If understand correctly, I need to wire up an LED to a diagnostic port and count the number of blinks. No there is NO "cel" on the dash which indicates that there is a problem - see the above - Go to this FAQ link and it will tell you everything you need to know about the error codes that the recepticle can show you about the fuel system and how to get 'em. http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28043 For What It's Worth. KEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtownmikebrown Posted April 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I finally found the marker and set the timing, found out the vacuum advance unit was shot, replaced the vacuum advance, and that helped a little bit. Seemed to be running and making boost a lot better at lower RPM this morning, even though it was still sputtering and cutting out at higher RPM. I took it for another drive later today and now it's running like total garbage. I guess I'll get a fuel pressure checker valve adapter thing to make sure I'm getting enough fuel pressure at the injectors, and send out the injectors to be tested and cleaned. Also, gonna check the ignition coil, replace the spark plugs, and replace the leaky valve cover gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtownmikebrown Posted April 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Here's a video just for fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IzTQr_sy7U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtownmikebrown Posted May 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Still no luck. Here's what else I've done. -I had my fuel injectors flow tested-checked the fuel pressure at the TB-fixed the TPS and did the TPS/ISC reset properly this time-replaced the valve cover gasket-replaced the coil and the plugs-cleaned out and re-lubricated the distributor-verified the timing Everything checks out as far as fuel and ignition are concerned. Last night I did a boost leak test and I could hear air escaping from a few different places. The exhaust manifold gasket is definitely bad. It could have been the exhaust manifold gasket in a different place, but I thought I could also hear air escaping out of the side of the turbo closer to the engine. When I started to take things apart to get to the exhaust manifold I could see traces of oil residue inside the intake boot and everywhere in between the turbo and the intercooler. I'm guessing that's not normal, right? Could the exhaust manifold leak be part of what's causing the problem? What do I need to do next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukaine Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 turbo might need a rebuild. Take the intake boot off the turbo and see if the shaft inside has any play with your fingers. If so the seals are likely shot and oil is bypassing into your intake. Thats a possibility for the oil residue in the intake lines. I just had to rebuild my turbo for the same reason. Well mine was dead obivous with the oil cloud it left out the exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) have you checked this filter?easy to get to from the trunk. it was 80% clogged in my car after I just cleaned it.the tank had a lot of sediment in it. fixed my similar problem. http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/557/sdc12288f.jpg http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/551/sdc12291.jpg http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9153/sdc12292k.jpg Edited May 22, 2014 by importwarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtownmikebrown Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 have you checked this filter? Ah yes, the cone filter is long gone. The tank has been cleaned, lines have been flushed, all the filters have been replaced, injectors tested, fuel pressure tested, etc. I'm pretty convinced the fuel delivery is sorted out. I think it's gotta be boost or vacuum related at this point. Sometimes I feel like the inherent design of this car is undermining my attempts to get it running. Like right now, trying to loosen the turbo studs. I torched them, I soaked them in PB Blaster for a day, torched them again, and they still won't budge. Problem is, there's no room to fit a breaker bar or an impact driver in there because the bolts are so close to the turbo housing. Same story with the exhaust manifold studs. There's gotta be an easier way to do it that I'm just not seeing right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) no no no im sure your suffering like the rest of us. I found it easier to remove the manifold to get it off.that led me to see a leaky manifold gasket. so I got it all surfaced andput back together with new studs, washers and nuts. (Thanks to DAD for the parts) for some reason seems to be short on fuel. do a flow test on the fuel pump with the intake manifold fuel linethat goes to the T-body. Edited May 22, 2014 by importwarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillS Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 If you have a leak anywhere on the intake side, it can cause all sorts of problems. Mine was doing the same thing and it was a loose clamp on the IC piping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtownmikebrown Posted May 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 If you have a leak anywhere on the intake side, it can cause all sorts of problems. Mine was doing the same thing and it was a loose clamp on the IC piping. I did find a small leak coming from an intercooler hose, but it didn't make any difference when I fixed it. I finally got the exhaust manifold removed. Looks like I was on to something. http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/dtownmikebrown/Starion/ExhaustMan.jpg I'm waiting on some parts right now. We'll see how it does with some new gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 get that thing surfaced flat before installing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtownmikebrown Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Bummer! Should've seen this coming . I started wire brushing off the manifold to make sure there weren't any cracks that I couldn't see underneath all the scale...and of course there were. The outlet from the first cylinder is cracked all the way around the inner side. http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/dtownmikebrown/Starion/man1.jpg http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/dtownmikebrown/Starion/man2.jpg I left it with the most highly recommended welding company in the area. They said they'd "give it a hell of a try." Hopefully it'll at least hold temporarily while I see if sealing off all the manifold leaks makes any difference in how the car runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighterpilot Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Make sure that the weld shop cuts the exhaust manifold webbing on the mounting flange between the runners and flatten the flange's sealing surface to the head or you will get the crack again. For What it's Worth. KEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtownmikebrown Posted June 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Haha! All these little problems keep uncovering bigger and bigger problems. Can't wait to see what I find next. I made a mess of the head trying to drill out the broken exhaust stud, and then while I was pulling out the last one I discovered that the entire back of the engine block was covered in oil. I couldn't tell whether it was all coming from the valve cover or not so I decided to just buck up and take the head off like I should have in the first place. Here's what I've found so far... I'm not sure how much of the oil in cylinder #4 spilled in there while I was taking off the head, but that's definitely one source of the oil leak. There may be others. Maybe now would be a good time to pull the engine and do a full rebuild. Then again, maybe not. Either way, I'm gonna need a new head now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighterpilot Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Good luck. As long as you have the head off you might consider replacing the power steering high pressure hose assembly. It is notorious for weeping PS ATF at the hose joint to the 900 metal hose fitting coming out of the PS pump. It is just a matter of time until it starts weeping. This hose is almost impossible to replace without pulling the engine or the cylinder head. For What It's Worth. KEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I agree. Change them both while you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtownmikebrown Posted June 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 OK, I'm gonna do what I should have done months ago and pull the motor. I really don't think there's anything wrong with the bottom end, but I was planning on building it anyway so now seems like as good a time as any to get the block all checked out, do the BSE and timing chain service, add some forged pistons, etc.. I'm planning on hoisting the block using two head bolts, some larger washers, and about 3.5 feet of high test chain since the head is already removed. I've looked around and it seems like some people on here have had success using that method. So far I've drained all the fluids, took out the radiator and water pump, removed all the hoses and electrical connectors, took out the AC and starter. Also removed a total of 4 bolts between the block and and the transmission, and freed the bolts for the motor mounts. Seems like it should be ready to go, so what am I forgetting? Is there anything else holding things together underneath that I'm overlooking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtownmikebrown Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Too late. It's out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcristquester Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Nice touch with the Natty Lite! Good luck with the rebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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