tankbob Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I just don't get this look. Why would you put tires on a car that are several sizes way too big and then turn then sidesway to make them fit.Not to mention tires have to be stretched on, I dont agree with form>function but its his car and hes gonna do what he wants with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 D_Venable: Thanks for your post. It definitely helps me to visualize the front setup. I think the best thing to do is leave the front at 0 offset and as Komeuppance suggests, tune with a spacer if desired. Also thanks for your suggestion with the tire size. That does look like the right setup to get the amount of stretch I'm looking for. ghinckley68 & tankbob: Hahah. I don't know that 3-4 degrees of camber is "sideways"... but I understand what you're saying. For me the Starion is not a competition car. It's my ultimate childhood toy and I want to style it up in the way I remember vintage race-cars of my youth. The stance scene today is all show... but the general vibe of the look has its roots in vintage Japanese motorsport. http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md96xvOH9v1r5qj0so1_500.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2336/1503665458_836167d860.jpghttp://farm9.staticflickr.com/8206/8171536072_a81377903b_z.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Haha I'm sure the "stance" guys know nothing of motorsports or of the old racing series. I've been to stanceworks(sad day) and various Nissan sites. They're all about the fad, looks, and copy paste onto their cars lol. There was talk of renting Laguna Seca for day... only to park on the track and take pictures lol, pretty sad. The +0 offset will be better in case you ever decide to set your car up for handling performance... lololol just teasing you, can't wait to see your setup. -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Thanks Robert! Sadly the guys at MRW said it might take up to 3 weeks to get the wheels to me... so it might take a while before I can update this thread with anything of substance. And even then... I'm waiting to order tires so that I can ensure the wheels fit properly first, clear the struts and brakes, etc... I went to one or two stance meets last year and it was just tween-ville and hard-looks. While I'm totally just having fun with the dress-up factor of it all... my intention is still to have a vintage road-race look. Like I mentioned before, my big inspiration has been the "Rocket Bunny" cars which have kind of taken the old JDM road-racer look and modernized it. I can't get enough of that stuff. I'm hoping to hit that nice sweet spot of style-meets-substance with a splash of ridiculous. I have no illusions about either my performance driving ability, or how performance capable the Starion will be when I'm done. I'm not a race-car driver. I'm just having fun and building a childhood fantasy hot-rod -Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper1355 Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) I can see where you're going. And for your peace of mind, the steelies you're buying usually go on rock crawlers running 44" plus tires... granted that's on 6 or 8 lug wheels, but for what you have planned, I seriously doubt you'll break anything. I know a guy running 33's on wheels like that putting down about 350 lb-ft, and he hasn't broken anything yet. Edited April 24, 2013 by viper1355 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghinckley68 Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 Well its odd. It was also my child hood dream car. but my goal is to keep mine bone stock looking. Although 17" wheels do have and appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 i seriously think steelies are going to be really really heavy in that size. I don't know what your budget it, but you can always buy some old 2 or three piece wheels in crappy condition (bent lips, curb damage) and just get new lips for em, or have old two peice 16" wheels made in to three peice 17" wheels. hit up memoryfab.com http://www.memoryfab.com/blog/view/2 they do re-sizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 (edited) Cant wait to see them! Also did they give you a weight for them? Might order me a set of rears... edit: never mind.... 47lbs per 17x12! Dang! Still gonna be sick though Edited April 29, 2013 by Convette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) Hehe, my budget is pretty tight. Albeit self-inflicted.Yeah I know about Memoryfab, panda-garage, etc... They tend to offer more modern wheels like WORK Meisters, VS-XX or SSR SP1s, etc... and they just don't look right on the Starquest (imo). The steelies have that perfect Mad Max vintage look that I'm after. And the made to order specs at $199 or less a wheel, sold me. I've been looking in to this forever. Of the older vintage wheels that I did find and that fit the style and character of the Starquest... like Convette's HRE 505's... would've cost an arm and a leg, because they're rare and massively popular... (thanks to the stance scene) Then I would've had to get them re-barreled... So in the end anything coming from Memoryfab would've been a $2,000 or $3,000 set of wheels. By contrast I paid $700 for my custom steelies, which fit the spirit of my project perfectly. I would describe my build as an 'out of control junkyard hot-rod'. I like to tell people "I've spent a lot of money... but I spent it sensibly" LOL! For example I swapped over to a 4G64, which, let's face it... is not really a budget-minded thing to do... but I used a lot of salvage parts. EMS, header, FMIC, etc... So the idea of getting custom wheels (expensive) but then trying to figure out how to get the cheapest quality (authentic, non-cast aluminum) wheels I could find just seemed right in-line with my neurotic compulsions :-) Yes the steelies are insanely heavy. But I guess I got to the point where I don't care. I'm not racing the car. It's just for show and cruising. And that 4G motor is a beast. It laid down 433 rwhp on the dyno and I've got the boost turned down to 17psi. I'm honestly more concerned about snapping wheel studs with all that power -vs- the un-sprung weight of a 50 lb. wheel and a large rubber contact patch. Edited April 30, 2013 by attack vector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 nah memoryfab is like $250 a wheel for widening/modding. that's what I meant, you could just find any wheel that had a good looking wheel face, and just send it to them for new barrels in whatever size you wanted. oh well, just wanted to clarify in case anyone else is reading this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 cant wait to see em mounted btw, steelies do look cool imho. i'll always scared to run lug-centric. just because normally the hub is carrying the vertical load and the studs are just experiencing slight shear load (from acceleration) and compressional load (the nuts being TQ down) with lug centric, the studs are carrying all the load, so if you've got some compressional load, it's going to be multiplied by the TQ produced by both vertical and horizontal loads, so the effective load on the studs becomes much higher. whether it's enough to break a stud, IDK. but i have personally seen wheel studs fail due to too improper application of lug-centric wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I'm definitely concerned about the lugcentric mount. I oredered a set of lugcentric nuts to go with the wheels. but im also starting to wonder if anyone makes something crazy like tungsten wheel studs. in fact i think ima gonna google that up right now. Perhaps I'm being too paranoid about this? Patra, would the "improper application of lugcentric wheels" pretty much be what I'm attempting to do right here? :-] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Aaaaand the answer to that is yes :-] ARP seems to make wheel studs with a 190,000 lb. tensile strength rating. I'm starting to feel like I should probably order a set of these, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dred_85.5_TSI Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Yeah, I'll be getting ARP wheel studs eventually. Just can't afford to dump more money into the car right now (I need a job). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I wouldnt stress it man. Unless your drag racing or drifting, they should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I wouldnt stress it man. Unless your drag racing or drifting, they should be fine. I saw wheel studs break on a 4 door corolla that was a daily driver with wheels improperly mounted and TQ'd and then the idiot drove on em. but maybe we're being too worried about safety in this case. John youre an engineer, can't you calculate the types of compression/tensional loads the studs are going to see. figure worst case scenario is he curb-checks the wheel during a slow corner in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Perhaps we're being paranoid, but I appreciate that everyone has their mind on safety and reliability. It's a huge part of why I love the Starquest community. I think my paranoia stems from the idea that the studs on my car are 25 years old and were never intended for a lug-centric mount with a 50 lb. wheel. That being said. I've been thinking about everything I can possibly do in order to ensure that the wheels are mounted properly and secure. -balance the load properly-use the correct lugs (which I ordered from the wheel manufacturer)-replace studs with ARP studs? (drastic but maybe necessary?)-torque load to specified rate, typically 80 ft. lbs. for Mitsubishis of this era... but maybe this new configuration changes the TQ spec? Should it be more aggressive? The other thing that I've been thinking about is that some cars are really fickle about the hub-centric mount. My 94 Turbo MR2 is one of them. I swapped the factory wheels out for some larger aftermarket wheels and I got a set of hub-centric rings to fill the gap. I happen to know from reading lots of posts on the MR2 forum about uncontrollable vibration that anyone who goes to an aftermarket wheel and doesn't fill the gap with a ring will suffer the dreaded "shake" at around 40 mph. Any of you guys ever recall reading posts by Starquesters suffering this issue when going to an aftermarket wheel without hub-rings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) I saw wheel studs break on a 4 door corolla that was a daily driver with wheels improperly mounted and TQ'd and then the idiot drove on em. but maybe we're being too worried about safety in this case. John youre an engineer, can't you calculate the types of compression/tensional loads the studs are going to see. figure worst case scenario is he curb-checks the wheel during a slow corner in town. That causes shi- to break..lol I'm a designer/sculptor that went to engineering school for a hot min..I'd rather not refer to math. lol I do know that I've run non hubcentric 30mm spacers drifting without breaking 25 year old wheel studs. I wouldn't advise it though. Perhaps we're being paranoid, but I appreciate that everyone has their mind on safety and reliability. It's a huge part of why I love the Starquest community. I think my paranoia stems from the idea that the studs on my car are 25 years old and were never intended for a lug-centric mount with a 50 lb. wheel. That being said. I've been thinking about everything I can possibly do in order to ensure that the wheels are mounted properly and secure. -balance the load properly-use the correct lugs (which I ordered from the wheel manufacturer)-replace studs with ARP studs? (drastic but maybe necessary?)-torque load to specified rate, typically 80 ft. lbs. for Mitsubishis of this era... but maybe this new configuration changes the TQ spec? Should it be more aggressive? The other thing that I've been thinking about is that some cars are really fickle about the hub-centric mount. My 94 Turbo MR2 is one of them. I swapped the factory wheels out for some larger aftermarket wheels and I got a set of hub-centric rings to fill the gap. I happen to know from reading lots of posts on the MR2 forum about uncontrollable vibration that anyone who goes to an aftermarket wheel and doesn't fill the gap with a ring will suffer the dreaded "shake" at around 40 mph. Any of you guys ever recall reading posts by Starquesters suffering this issue when going to an aftermarket wheel without hub-rings? I do agree tho, it wouldnt be a bad idea to get new studs, for sure. I'm honestly not sure how much force is actually on the hub.. with out the studs, the hub is essentially just a locator is it not? Thats why I dont think the force is such a big deal. As for balancing thou- yeah a ring would def help. Like I said man, its nothing to turn few rings for them if you find issues when you mount them. When you tighten the studs, do one at time in a star pattern, tighten each a little bit at a time untill good to ensure centering. Edited April 30, 2013 by Convette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Convette, Again thanks for the offer to turn some rings. I will def let you know what the setup looks like when I get the wheels test-fit. I'm not sure I can even support any hub-rings with these open-bore steelies. For hub-rings to work, the bore has to be 'captive' on the back-face of the wheel, contained by the smaller, spindle-bore... I hope that makes sense. I'm not sure I have the terminology right on that. I'm pretty sure these steelies are a flat steel plate with a bore-hole cut through the center for hub & spindle access, but I don't think the design of these wheels features a 2-tiered bore to support the addition of hub-rings. If I put a set of hub-rings on these... I'm under the impression there would be no way to contain them and they would spin or shake out eventually. LOL. I hate all this speculation. I wish the d@mn things would just show up already :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) with out the studs, the hub is essentially just a locator is it not? it is not just a locator. the hub-center is carrying the axial and angular loads!! the wheel studs are just keeping the wheel in place on the hub-center, and carrying the rotational experienced during accel/decel which is why I voiced concern. taking an item that normally experiences one of two low load situations and now apply multiple axis loads is usually when things fail. and yes, john, YOU have run non-hubcentric just fine, but 1 car is not enough of a data set to come to a conclusion. studs fail when they exceed their loads. now the question is, what is required for that to happen? Edited April 30, 2013 by patra_is_here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) So based on all of this great discussion I'd like to order some ARP wheel studs, but got stopped in my tracks because I have no idea what the specs on our studs are. The only Mitsubishi wheel studs featured in the ARP catalog are for the EVO. I'm guessing our cars do not share the same specs with the EVO? In order to buy a set of wheel studs I need to know the following: - screw in type or press in type ?- knurl diameter?- UHL (I don't even know what this means?) edit: HA! now I know what this means: UHL / Under-Head-Length :-)- knurl length?- nose length?- thread size (I assume that the thread size should be the standard: m12x1.5 ) Halp?! :-( Edited May 1, 2013 by attack vector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attack vector Posted May 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 So some additional poking around. In attempts to try and track down our factory wheel stud specs I found this entry on the Rock Auto website. Do the stats for these lugs seem accurate?http://www.rockauto....e,7680,Lug+Stud I did some quick metric to standard conversion and the knurl diameter described in the Rock Auto listing (14.30mm) translates to: 0.562992 in. If you round it up its: 0.563 in. I went to the Summit Racing website where they sell ARP wheel studs and they don't have a listing for a 0.563 in. knurl diameter. They instead show a listing for: 0.565 in. knurl diameter. Do you guys think this is possibly the same spec, just interpreted a little differently? I mean where talking a hundredth of an inch at this point? For reference here is that Summit listing: http://www.summitrac...-7717/overview/ Let me know what you guys think! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghinckley68 Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) Perhaps we're being paranoid, but I appreciate that everyone has their mind on safety and reliability. It's a huge part of why I love the Starquest community. I think my paranoia stems from the idea that the studs on my car are 25 years old and were never intended for a lug-centric mount with a 50 lb. wheel. That being said. I've been thinking about everything I can possibly do in order to ensure that the wheels are mounted properly and secure. -balance the load properly-use the correct lugs (which I ordered from the wheel manufacturer)-replace studs with ARP studs? (drastic but maybe necessary?)-torque load to specified rate, typically 80 ft. lbs. for Mitsubishis of this era... but maybe this new configuration changes the TQ spec? Should it be more aggressive? The other thing that I've been thinking about is that some cars are really fickle about the hub-centric mount. My 94 Turbo MR2 is one of them. I swapped the factory wheels out for some larger aftermarket wheels and I got a set of hub-centric rings to fill the gap. I happen to know from reading lots of posts on the MR2 forum about uncontrollable vibration that anyone who goes to an aftermarket wheel and doesn't fill the gap with a ring will suffer the dreaded "shake" at around 40 mph. Any of you guys ever recall reading posts by Starquesters suffering this issue when going to an aftermarket wheel without hub-rings? My quest does this at around 40 but i have stock wheels. By no means uncontrollable actully just sligltly annoying if i am paying attention to it. But still. and it goes away buy 45mph. Does not matter if under load costing what gear its in. Edited May 1, 2013 by ghinckley68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 [/font][/color] it is not just a locator. the hub-center is carrying the axial and angular loads!! the wheel studs are just keeping the wheel in place on the hub-center, and carrying the rotational experienced during accel/decel which is why I voiced concern. taking an item that normally experiences one of two low load situations and now apply multiple axis loads is usually when things fail. and yes, john, YOU have run non-hubcentric just fine, but 1 car is not enough of a data set to come to a conclusion. studs fail when they exceed their loads. now the question is, what is required for that to happen? If your right then how in the world do lug centric wheels stay on??? Think about it dude... Why would they make them if the studs didnt keep them on? It only sticks out about 10mm. If it needed to carry load it would stick out further. Yes, this in theory, might make a little difference, but A LOT of wheels are lug centric and don't fall off from rolling down the street parking hard. This is also why the lug nuts are tapered, also used for location reasons. Right? AV- make sure they are balance correctly! You wont have any vibration if its done right. Our studs are not screw in or pressed, they are d shaped and the flat keeps them from turning. I have to take my brake system off tomorrow, I'll try to get some better pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 maybe we're confusing the language here. but when I say hubcentric, I mean that the hub not only locates the wheel on the axis but carries some load, since the wheel is always firmly butted against the hub-center.. lug centric the wheel center does not touch the hub center, therefore the studs are doing all the work. is there a flaw in that logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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