starquestJOE Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 nope no o-rings here. i dont think they are needed til after 40+psi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) nope no o-rings here. i dont think they are needed til after 40+psi I don't think they were necessarily needed in my build. I just look at it as a little insurance against blowing the HG into the engine bay when bad things happen. And bad things happen to me ... a lot ... BTW Joe you should post those dyno numbers in your sig. Seriously bad tail I'm still in shock at how impressive your car ran!! Edited November 1, 2012 by psu_Crash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starquestJOE Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Hey it wouldn't even have made A horsepower without you. U helped me so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 nope no o-rings here. i dont think they are needed til after 40+psifrom what i understand, after 30 or so psi it will start blowing by the headgasket, even with arp's, i seen pictures of black spray patterns coming from the headgasket, but you would never know til the head was pulled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starquestJOE Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 I have two friends running 4g's non o ringed and runs 35-37 psi and the other runs 45+ psi. Both only run arps and mls gaskets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Hey it wouldn't even have made A horsepower without you. U helped me so much. I'm always glad to help where I can! You did the hard part though. I don't think I could just sit there with someone else holding my car at WOT and 31psi to 6800 RPM without having to change my shorts Skullz I had exactly that pattern you are talking about on my last engine. It was blowing by the gasket at some point but didn't blow it out. I believe the head was lifting to some degree. One more reason I went O-ring this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 I have two friends running 4g's non o ringed and runs 35-37 psi and the other runs 45+ psi. Both only run arps and mls gasketsor motor is a 4g as wellbut i ment ours specifically. , read the above post lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starquestJOE Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Oh I know u were. I was just referring to them as not needing o rings. I don't see the 4g63 having and better gasket. They run factory mls gaskets. I'm all so not goin to say I'm never goin to oring my motor. Next time around I will, and only to run more boost. My gauge does go to 45psi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 from what i understand, after 30 or so psi it will start blowing by the headgasket, even with arp's, i seen pictures of black spray patterns coming from the headgasket, but you would never know til the head was pulled just 3 years ago it was generally accepted that the gasket would blow after 21 psi and now look.As I have said before if your machinist has woman problems your motor will suck.it is time for an overhaul of what we think we know about these motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starquestJOE Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 Yes a poor machinist equals a poor motor. But my motor isnt fresh from the shop. I got a used forged bottom and a very well built head used. Hell even used arps! These motors got a bad rap long ago and still to this day. I'm a die hard 2.6 fan and always will be. I will try and find the limits of the streetable 2.6, no filled blocks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotStock88 Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 just 3 years ago it was generally accepted that the gasket would blow after 21 psi and now look. It is time for an overhaul of what we think we know about these motors. Yes! In the last few years I have never seen so much PROVEN knowledge come about in this community. This is no longer the 80's or 90's kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Just look at how many of us are well over 300HP on 20+ psi without any real issues. 10 years ago 300 WHP was a big deal. Now the 400 mark is comparable. Over time I think trial and error has played a huge part. With enough people trying all kinds of crazy things we are bound to eventually figure out what really works. I think the advancements in engine control units have also made tuning high HP a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted November 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I was looking at old posts in the engine and performance fourm recently. Those guys were trying to run stock 05 turbines with 20g compressors slapped on them. Dumping into 2.5 exhaust no less. They might as well had potatoes in the tail pipes. It is only recently that people have realized the smaller t3's were not much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Just look at how many of us are well over 300HP on 20+ psi without any real issues. 10 years ago 300 WHP was a big deal. Now the 400 mark is comparable. Over time I think trial and error has played a huge part. With enough people trying all kinds of crazy things we are bound to eventually figure out what really works. I think the advancements in engine control units have also made tuning high HP a lot easier. It's what you said as well as the "tuning talent" that has improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I was looking at old posts in the engine and performance fourm recently. Those guys were trying to run stock 05 turbines with 20g compressors slapped on them. Dumping into 2.5 exhaust no less. They might as well had potatoes in the tail pipes. It is only recently that people have realized the smaller t3's were not much better. We came a long way and many guys paid the price and failed, so we can learn from it, to move forward.I just believe this motor does better with a T4.T3 guys try and prove me wrong, it will only help the rest of us to move forwardThe turbo is part of the exhaust system. You can't "open up the exhaust" without properly adressing the turbo and header... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Joe and I are running a BEP T3 .70 A/R turbine housing. Seems to work well for us.I need to find some time to port the snot out of my exhaust manifold. I'm still running a stocker that's just modified for an external gate.That step has to be the biggest bottleneck in my current setup. I smoothed it out a little but there is much more that could be improved there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starquestJOE Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Mike I say take it off and go tubular manifold. I'm having a new one made and I could have one made for u as well. Big t3 & small t4 are the way to go. We have to talk John out of using the mits flange turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'd love to go with a tubular if it stays together. If it's a solid piece I'm all in. Are you going to base the design off of our $%! manifolds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I say take it off and go with a midsized T4 with tubular header. you already did the T3 ting. We all could benefit from the change you make...not just you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starquestJOE Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I myself don't need a t4. My hx40 is all I need. I'm not sayin a t4 is not the way to go, but I'm not goin to use a t4. I'm only goin to impove on what I have. The power I have made is more then I need, but with a real tune, timing, and injectors I'll be where I want. Mike I'll let u know what and where I'm gettin mine built. I'm get sc10 or sc40 SS only. When I have more info I'll let know ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I myself don't need a t4. My hx40 is all I need. I'm not sayin a t4 is not the way to go, but I'm not goin to use a t4. I'm only goin to impove on what I have. The power I have made is more then I need, but with a real tune, timing, and injectors I'll be where I want. Mike I'll let u know what and where I'm gettin mine built. I'm get sc10 or sc40 SS only. When I have more info I'll let know ! i know you got it together. I was refering to the owner of the white car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starquestJOE Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 If anyone knows what he is doing its mike with the white car. I know half of what he does. I only know what I know from him helpin me. I can build anything, but the electrical side of it I was lost. And I'm still learning. Mike has a better built set-up less the magna then I do. The magna can never keep up with the cannon. Oh yea I said that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 If anyone knows what he is doing its mike with the white car. I know half of what he does. I only know what I know from him helpin me. I can build anything, but the electrical side of it I was lost. And I'm still learning. Mike has a better built set-up less the magna then I do. The magna can never keep up with the cannon. Oh yea I said that! Joe, we know that too. I have even heard of him off the site. Did you think I was saying different?If so forget what I said about the tubular header and T4. I know he will sort it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles gardner Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 i may just have a tubular header that my friends may get a pattern from!! oh wait u'll have to change the flange it's only a t-3. keep up the good work joe and mike ur goals are well within range! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 Thanks Joe, you are too kind. But I do feel like I have a pretty darn good idea what I'm doing with my car. My issue with the dyno will be resolved shortly. I have some ideas I just haven't had time to implement them. I believe the voltage spikes I was seeing in the datalogs is being caused by one of 2 things. Either the flyback circuit for my injectors is inducing voltage spikes in the regulated voltage on the MS board or the tach driver I built should not be tied to the 12V line that also feeds MS. I'm leaning toward the injector flyback being the issue since others have had similar problems.I put an O-scope on the alternator, battery and the 12V feed block where MS gets it's power. Nothing odd there at all but my logs still show some ugly voltage spikes. I'm going to pull the 12V power for the injector flyback circuit off the MS board and have it feed from the distribution block. Then any random spikes should be attenuated by the regulator within MS. Sounds good right? haha Anyone doubting it's performance should have went for a ride on the street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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