I need a bit of advice (Accident advice)

[Big Al]

Long story short it's been a hectic and harrowing week. I laid my bike down Saturday afternoon. It was a low speed accident and I was the only one involved. The bike was an '02 Harley Sportster XLH 1200. Caught some gravel and dried grass clippings on an onramp at speed and lost it. That's the general gist of the story there.

 

So the appraiser came out 2 days ago. He looked the bike over and determined $3500-$4000 to repair. Insurance company called and deemed it a total loss.

 

Now a bit of background, I put $1600 down on the bike. I have been paying $140 or more a month since April for the payments on the loan. I was a single payment away from finishing my insurance for the year.

 

I just got the call from the insurance company giving me final numbers. I have a $500 deductible. Here's the breakdown:

 

Settlement Breakdown

ACV: $5,609.00

Tax Amount: 168.27

Fees: 19.00

Deductible: 500.00

Gross Settlement: 5296.27

 

 

Owner Retain

ACV: $5,609.00

Tax Amount: 168.27

Salvage: 1393.00

Deductible: 500.00

Gross Settlement: 3884.27

 

Now I started the engine earlier today and it sounds like it's got a knock towards the front. I might be able to find parts for the bike fairly cheap but I will still likely have to pay for the work and inspection. So my question is, what are your thoughts on what I should do? Keep the bike, fix it, and ride again or let it go, try to work my tail of, and attempt to save the $ for another down payment for another new bike?

 

And is there anything I should know about the process and adjustments here or are these guys shooting straight with me and staying on the up and up?

[alp247]

OK, coming from a rider here. Now you need to be honest with yourself and know that if the damage is worth fixing. The main thing is the the frame bent or tweeked. If you hit anything like a wall, rail or tree... then i would just let it got. It will not ride the same....it can but you'll always have doubts. Now if the bike just slide out of under you (low side) and didn't hit anything then the bike should be ok. Now here is where it gets tricky. If you fix the bike you have to pay DMV fees + CHP fees to inspect the bike. Everything has to look stock again because the CHP is picky as hell about stuff like that.

 

Now if you hear a knocking it may not be worth fixing but remember you just laid the bike down so all the fluids are not where it's suppossed to be. My bike did the same thing then after i cleaned it up and changed all the fluids it ran fine. If you don't have connections, have have time to search for parts, or have the time to do most of the work it might be better you let it go.

 

I kept mine because i was able to do most of the work, buy the parts and install it. the only thing i didn't do was the paint job which i saved $$$ on since i painted my bike matt black with canned paint.

Edited September 20, 2012 by alp247

[Guest]

I'd let it go. Bikes are never the same after a good impact.

 

You can't buy another bike with the money the insurance is paying you?

 

 

[taeisallin]

Start off with another clean sheet of paper.

[viper1355]

I would take the settlement. It's not like you can't go buy another bike. Between your savings and the settlement, you might even be able to get something better

[TopDawg_43]

Ah man, that sucks! You just got that hog too. See, I'm not the only one that losses it . Yeah yeah, I know I know.....

 

I've obvisouly seen and rebuilt bikes before. The first thing you have to find out is, if the frame is bend and the triple tree is misaligned. If it's out, you'd have to get a new frame, which for the most part isn't worth it. Get a quick list of all the parts that you know are going to have to be replaced. The do a search on the parts, to see what you can find easily. That'll help you decide what you want to do. Also, go by the dealer and see what they have in stock. It might be easier to go with something that they have for sale.

[jszucs]

If you can't do the work yourself..... DITCH IT. And especialy if you messed up the motor that and trans are about the only thing worth money on it. Anything added to it chrome ect insurance is going to give you 0 for it.

 

That being said don't take there first offer. Find examples of bikes exactly like it and the $ they are going for and talk with the insurance about it. My dad just went through this with his 2010 burned to the ground for no reason. He paid almost 30K for it new, it was fully upgraded stage2 heated everything every bell whistel and option but ABS ultra classic. The first offer they gave him was 15K used one's with less were selling for 20 22K Finally they came up to a reasonable offer.

 

 

Also they will tell you that you have the buy back option but when it comes down to it, they won't let you and will tell you it's got to go to auction and you can bid on it. I was going to buy his for motor and trans if they let him buy it back. That 103" and the 6 speed would have made me a nice start to a custom. But I could also do all my own work on it too.

 

 

O and hopefully your OK?

Edited September 21, 2012 by jszucs

[TopDawg_43]

 

 

 

O and hopefully your OK?

 

Oh yeah, I hope you are ok. Road-rash sucks! And I remember I jamed my heel when I went down. I didn'te realize it at first. But I couldn't put pressure on it for a few weeks. Real pain trying to play basketball running on your toes.

[jszucs]

^ I just don't like when you get the brush. Brushing / picking pebbles out SUCKS

[Burton]

Like everyone else has said, ditch it if there's frame or fork damage. Even if you think it's minor. If there is any spot on the frame, forks, or tripple tree that appears to have scuffs or nicks, then you have to assume that area took at least a slight impact to make that damage. Even slight impacs on any of those parts are enough to knock the frame out of alignment. Even if the frame was untouched but the forks took a hit, you can't always just replace the forks and go. Lots of times that impact to the forks will travel thru the skeleton of the bike and cause collateral damage to the frame, even tho the frame itself took no impact.

 

The salvage price they're giving you seems high. I dunno if it's because it's a Harley and maybe those hold value wrecked better than other bikes, but most salvage places won't give you more than $500 for a whole, wrecked bike, so I'm curious how the insurance thinks they can get close to $1400 out of it as it is. Lots of times you can "deal" with insurance companies. You may be able to haggle with them and get the buy back price of the bike down to $1000, or get an overall better settlement if you can prove the bike was nicer or had more options than the average bike model of that year.

 

 

The only way I'd buy the bike back to rebuild is if there are zero impact marks on the frame, forks, or tree, or if the speed at the time of the accident was 30mph or less. You may still want to buy the bike back even if it's not rebuildable, especially if you got some nice bolt-on goodies on it. Why let a salvage yard make all the money parting it out, when you can take parts you may want for your next bike and sell the rest. I would only do that tho if you know the engine and such were not damage and are still good for parts. Oh, and I'd probably only do it if the buy back price was right.

[jszucs]

^ well you can buy a 1200 sports even a 2005 for easy 5-6K in great shape like 5-10K miles even with lots of upgrades. My nabor will sell his 2005 right now for 6K it's got major upgrades, is show room new with like 4K on it.

 

As for Harlies holding there value yes they do majorly. A 1200 (or even better for the new FI motors in good running condition is easy 3-4K a 6 speed trans is easy another 3-4K The frames (any non 883 frame) is easy 2-5K For the most part any wrecked harley is being sold for it's value of the motor and trans... if FI the computer (especialy if you got a programer (programer is 500-1000 by itself without ECU and is locked to ECU)

 

Only way to keep it is if you can do the work, the motor and trans are fine (especially a sportster as it's only motor and trans) and if your going to just swap them onto another frame, or if your going to make a shifter cart or the like with it. Other then that just take the money and buy another one it's 2/3 the way to a bike in perfect shape even newer with upgrades.

 

As for how it's going to go at auction just FORGET IT.... there are going to be a ton of pros there and they are buying them up for 2 3 4K because it's a cheep motor and trans and there going to put it on something custom, sell off or swap any other little items here and there for more profit.

[jeph_tsi]

this really depends on your abilities to fix it yourself, if you can't I wouldn't do it. Except for the paint, everything else can likely be done with simple tools, but good paint is harder to do than many think. If this was at low speed and there was no impact with anything its likely to be ok. If it looks good structurally and the forks look good there is one thing I always check, look at where the tree goes to the frame and there should be stops that limit from turning too far, make sure these look ok, if not its likely that the bars were forced and jammed creating an impact at this point potentially causing damage that isn't always visible. So low speed + no impact + steering limiters, forks and frame look good = salvagable. This is of course if you are ready to take on the project, the good thing is that being a harley there are tons of parts out there and this could be an opportunity for customization.

 

As for the knock, I wouldn't worry too much as long as the bike shut down pretty quickly. Harleys vibrate a lot and its likely to be a bracket, or exhaust broken loose. On a cold start try feeling around the exhaust and engine for something that is loose, just putting your hand on the culprit should quiet the knock a little. Also check the oil, if it was on its side for too long its likely to have lost some oil.

 

Either way you go, its a good idea to haggle with the insurance company, this will always score you a little extra cash. Their job is to make you happy with the least amount of money, so the first offer is almost always a low one.

[jszucs]

^ keep in mind it's a sportster and droped at HW speed so not just a slow layover. for the $ there talking he could easly buy one that's never been messed up without the time and expence to fix and be riding again soon as he heals up. With ok paint (harley paint sucks even there 2K jobs on screaming eagles got orange peel out the @) Also sportters do not fair well even when droped at low speed they got no crash bars, most of the guys got the shorty bars on them which get slammed into the tank ect. It's really not worth it unless your going to make a custom.

[Burton]

You aint kidding about the paint on them things. My uncle has the big Harley with all the bags and such (not sure on model names)... It's a nice bike but I was underwhelmed at the finish quality. I was able to get his finish quite a bit better with minimal cutting and polishing, tho. You'd think for the price those things cost, Harley would at least hire a couple extra guys to run polishers over them.

[jszucs]

You aint kidding about the paint on them things. My uncle has the big Harley with all the bags and such (not sure on model names)... It's a nice bike but I was underwhelmed at the finish quality. I was able to get his finish quite a bit better with minimal cutting and polishing, tho. You'd think for the price those things cost, Harley would at least hire a couple extra guys to run polishers over them.

 

You can't even polish it though. It's under the clear, if you truly do sand them down, polish them, then reclear then yes. But at that point you might as well just take it apart and paint it. If you should ever get one that someone wants you to detail try this. And I say try because it takes a few times to get it right but... I'm sure you remember the old school glaze? you can glaze a new surface on it and it will make it look smoother... but just make sure your customer knows it's only temp like a wax and when it wares it will be back to stock look. Typical full dresser done by a pro is easy 150 200 jobs. It's no better for cars other then like audi merc even BMW is a bit lacking. But look at a corvet carbon 147K and it's got orange peal.

 

As for what I mean by just DITCH IT. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-HARLEY-SPORTSTER-1200-LOW-LESS-THAN-100-MILES-/320982927823?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item4abc12c9cf

 

This is a 2007 so it's got a night and day better frame, it's FI with a way better motor design it's got 47 miles and it's not even selling at $7500 so you know you can talk them under that.

Edited September 21, 2012 by jszucs

[Edde]

I'm not a street rider but a bike I would let go for sure. As for the settlement remember what Ulrich always says don't take an amount you're not satisfied with. They can't force you to take a particular settlement and until you agree they can't close the case.

[Guest]

Like everyone else has said, ditch it if there's frame or fork damage. Even if you think it's minor. If there is any spot on the frame, forks, or tripple tree that appears to have scuffs or nicks, then you have to assume that area took at least a slight impact to make that damage. Even slight impacs on any of those parts are enough to knock the frame out of alignment. Even if the frame was untouched but the forks took a hit, you can't always just replace the forks and go. Lots of times that impact to the forks will travel thru the skeleton of the bike and cause collateral damage to the frame, even tho the frame itself took no impact.

 

The salvage price they're giving you seems high. I dunno if it's because it's a Harley and maybe those hold value wrecked better than other bikes, but most salvage places won't give you more than $500 for a whole, wrecked bike, so I'm curious how the insurance thinks they can get close to $1400 out of it as it is. Lots of times you can "deal" with insurance companies. You may be able to haggle with them and get the buy back price of the bike down to $1000, or get an overall better settlement if you can prove the bike was nicer or had more options than the average bike model of that year.

 

 

The only way I'd buy the bike back to rebuild is if there are zero impact marks on the frame, forks, or tree, or if the speed at the time of the accident was 30mph or less. You may still want to buy the bike back even if it's not rebuildable, especially if you got some nice bolt-on goodies on it. Why let a salvage yard make all the money parting it out, when you can take parts you may want for your next bike and sell the rest. I would only do that tho if you know the engine and such were not damage and are still good for parts. Oh, and I'd probably only do it if the buy back price was right.

 

The insurance adjusters go by what they can get fir wrecks at the auction. Most insurance companies use Copart as their primary auctioneer. They Are open for bids around the world. So they bank on that someone in Africa or Europe or China or somewhere will pay that amount based on previous experience from similar sales.

 

The other way is they contact specific wrecking yards directly and go with the highest bidder. I used to get those calls all the time.

 

Copart auction prices are insane, often times wrecks go for as much if not more than a non wrecked unit you can buy running and driving out on the streets.

[Big Al]

Ok I haven't read all the replies yet but I will clarify the progression of the accident.

 

Riding up an onramp to I-64w. 30-35 mph. Felt I wasn't making the turn properly and the rear felt odd so I straightened up the bike and began braking. This put me on the shoulder where I caught a chunk of loose fine gravel and dry grass clippings. As soon as I did the bike went out from under me. I couldn't have been at more than 25 mph at that time. Thinking back, it felt like I just fell over almost. The front wheel went under the guard rail coming to rest against the post holding the guard rail.

 

Now the damages I have noted so far- fender bent and scraped, handlebars feel a little looser than before (up and down) contolrs on left handlebars scraped, shifter arm snapped off, brake pedal ripped from the sprocket cover, dent in gas tank, and of course nearly all pegs along with the highway bars were bent or scraped. Now I started her as I said and there's a knocking almost sounds like a rod knock from the front of the crankcase.

 

My knowledge of bikes is still limited but I obviously know how to turn a wrench after he Conquest.

 

I will post pictures of the accident and the current condition of the bike later today.

[TopDawg_43]

The front wheel went under the guard rail coming to rest against the post holding the guard rail.

 

Now the damages I have noted so far- fender bent and scraped, handlebars feel a little looser than before (up and down)

 

 

^^^^ This causees frame damage.

 

I remmeber a friend of mine was riding one day, rather slow because it had rained in the area he was riding, not long before he got there. He went a round a curve, hit a oil/water spot and his bike slide out from under him. the bike slide under a guard rail. The front of the bike went into a post, and that was all she wrote.

 

Just as Burton said, it does not take a lot of force, in this area, to damage the frame.

Edited September 21, 2012 by TopDawg_43

[Burton]

^^^^ This causees frame damage.

 

I remmeber a friend of mine was riding one day, rather slow because it had rained in the area he was riding, not long before he got there. He went a round a curve, hit a oil/water spot and his bike slide out from under him. the bike slide under a guard rail. The front of the bike went into a post, and that was all she wrote.

 

Just as Burton said, it does not take a lot of force, in this area, to damage the frame.

 

 

Yeah, but if it truly was only a 25 MPH wreck, then you figure the side took most of the impact, then the bars took some of it, then the bike scrubbed off speed sliding on it's side before it hit the guardrail. I'd only be concerned about that guardrail deal if the guardrail was actually bent, then you know there was some hard impact there. If there appears to be no damage to the bike or the guardrail then that guardrail hit was probably nothing. I wouldn't even be so worried about the bars taking a hit, especially since they seem to have loosened up from the tree. If the impact to the bars caused them to loosen from the tree, that probably kept the impact from transfering energy into the tree so much. Now, if the bars feel loose because the tree is loose, then for sure walk away. Otherwise, I know it doesn't take much impact to do damage, but that low of speed is really only enough to cause cosmetic damage. My old Gixxer got laid down after losing it on a turn and going off the road at about 35-40, and even tho the impact was enough to bend the bars slightly and tear up the headlight fairing, the bike had zero noticeable handling or tracking problems.

 

Personally, I'd take a risk on a 25MPH wreck without even seeing the damage. That's such a low-speed go-down that you'd almost have to have a direct frame or fork hit to mess that stuff up.

[jszucs]

^ crotch rockets take it much better, other then the high dollar plastic peices. The bars are inside the fairings (espeicaly when turned) Most harlies they stick out still even in full lock. This casues the front wheel to buck into the ground. If the front was raked out this make it even worse as even a slight impact the force is exaserbated. Being a sportster there is really nothing else on the bike other then frame and fork to hit also.

 

You also got to add up.... 200-1000 on a seat (I assume not a 1000 on a heated seat on a sporster just giving a range) Just one turn signal is 50 bucks just for the lense.... This is a HD IE hundreds of dollars is what HD stands for. It's made me SICK what the price tag was on some of my dads stuff. His 4 speaker radio... OK sure it's intigrated with CB, sat radio, navagation ECT but still for like 1100 bucks I better have a 12" sub in my tour pack and be pounding down the street way louder then my exaust.

Edited September 21, 2012 by jszucs

[jeph_tsi]

I think the big question is what the goal is for the end result... if you just want a stockish sportster probably best to settle and buy another, or use this as an avenue to build something more custom. If you're redoing everything you can build something exactly how you like it. My current bike is a rebuilt wreck that was ditched at around 40mph, it luckily didn't hit anything and suffered a lot of damage, but not to the frame, or forks. As a result of this wreck the bike was rebuilt and is now not anything near stock, so the end result is a much higher performing and better looking bike than it was in stock form. Its a blast to drive and turns heads everywhere it goes.

 

The only thing that worries me is the knock, if it really is rod knocking its totally not worth it, seems unlikely to me that this would cause a rod knock but stranger things have happened.

[jszucs]

^ Common if he didn't hit the kill switch on the way down. I would bet more it's a bent valve though from tons of fluid pouring where it shouldnt. He's also stated he will more then likely not be the one doing / able to do the rebuild so that = an instant no as bike mechanic is easy 70 / hour. Edited September 21, 2012 by jszucs

[Big Al]

Yeah I did NO damage to the guard rail or the pole that supported it. If the knocking were a valve then it would be coming from the head area this sounds like it's coming fromt he lower casing that's why I'm worried. At this point though, I don't know that I can really afford to get it fixed if I DID buy it back. The thing I find odd though is that they are going to pay out $5200 when they adjuster said between $3500 and $4000 to repair. Something reeks like last weeks fish but I don't knwo how to cal them out on it...

[Big Al]

Here's the one pic I have of the accident itself: