Why Mitsubishi is dooooomed! (at least from a performance standpoint)

[Threedoor]

Why Mitsubishi is dooooomed!

 

Mitsubishi has never understood the idea of the HP wars when it comes to performance cars. The last time they actually made major improvements incrementally over time on a specific performance car was the Starion back in the 1980’s. Data on non-Mitsubishi cars is mostly wiki data... take with large doses of salt, not just a grain!

 

Low Dollar Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, and Mitsubishi Starion and Eclipse

 

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1983 Ford Mustang --- Carbureted 3.8L V-6 112 HP --- Fuel Injected 2.3L Turbo I-4 145 HP --- Carbureted 4.9L V-8 175 HP

 

1983 Chevy Camaro --- TBI 2.5L I-4 90 HP --- Carbureted 2.8L V-6 107 HP --- Carbureted 5.0L V-8 150 HP --- TBI 5.0L V-8 175 HP --- Carbureted 5.0L V-8 190 HP

 

1983 Mitsubishi Starion --- SOHC TBI Non Intercooled Turbo 2.6L I-4 145 HP

 

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1984 Ford Mustang --- Fuel Injected 3.8L V-6 120 HP --- Fuel Injected 2.3L Turbo I4 175 HP --- Carbureted 4.9L V-8 175 HP --- Fuel Injected 4.9L V-8 165 HP

 

1984 Chevy Camaro --- TBI 2.5L I-4 92 HP --- Carbureted 2.8L V-6 107 HP --- Carbureted 5.0L V-8 150 HP --- Carbureted 5.0L V-8 190 HP

 

1984 Mitsubishi Starion --- SOHC TBI Non Intercooled Turbo 2.6L I-4 145 HP

 

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1985 Ford Mustang --- Fuel Injected 3.8L V-6 120 HP --- Fuel Injected 2.3L Turbo I4 205 HP --- Carbureted 4.9L V-8 210 HP --- Fuel Injected 4.9L V-8 165 HP

 

1985 Chevy Camaro --- TBI 2.5L I-4 88 HP --- MFI 2.8L V-6 135 HP --- Carbureted 5.0L V-8 155 HP --- Carbureted 5.0L V-8 190 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 215 HP

 

1985 Mitsubishi Starion --- SOHC TBI Non Intercooled Turbo 2.6L I-4 145 HP --- SOHC TBI Intercooled Turbo 2.6L I-4 170 HP

 

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1986 Ford Mustang --- Fuel Injected 3.8L V-6 120 HP --- Fuel Injected 2.3L Turbo I4 200 HP --- Fuel Injected 4.9L V-8 200 HP

 

1986 Chevy Camaro --- MFI Fuel Injected 2.8L V-6 135 HP --- Carbureted 5.0L V-8 165 HP --- Carbureted 5.0L V-8 190 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 190 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.7L V-8 220 HP

 

1986 Mitsubishi Starion --- SOHC TBI Intercooled Turbo 2.6L I-4 176 HP

 

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1987 Ford Mustang --- Fuel Injected 2.3L I-4 88 HP --- Fuel Injected 4.9L V-8 225 HP

 

1987 Chevy Camaro --- MFI Fuel Injected 2.8L V-6 135 HP --- Carbureted 5.0L V-8 170 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 215 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.7L V-8 225 HP

 

1987 Mitsubishi Starion --- SOHC TBI Intercooled Turbo 2.6L I-4 176 HP

 

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1988 Ford Mustang --- Fuel Injected 2.3L I-4 88 HP --- Fuel Injected 4.9L V-8 225 HP

 

1988 Chevy Camaro --- MFI Fuel Injected 2.8L V-6 135 HP --- TBI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 170 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 220 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.7L V-8 230 HP

 

1988 Mitsubishi Starion --- SOHC TBI Intercooled Turbo 2.6L I-4 188 HP

 

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1989 Ford Mustang --- Fuel Injected 2.3L I-4 88 HP --- Fuel Injected 4.9L V-8 215 HP

 

1989 Chevy Camaro --- MFI Fuel Injected 2.8L V-6 135 HP --- TBI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 170 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 225 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.7L V-8 240 HP

 

1989 Mitsubishi Starion --- SOHC TBI Intercooled Turbo 2.6L I-4 188 HP

 

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1990 Ford Mustang --- Fuel Injected 2.3L I-4 88 HP --- Fuel Injected 4.9L V-8 215 HP

 

1990 Chevy Camaro --- MFI Fuel Injected 2.8L V-6 140 HP --- TBI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 170 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 230 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.7L V-8 245 HP

 

1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 1.8L I-4 92 HP --- DOHC 2.0L I-4 135 HP --- DOHC 2.0L Turbo I-4 195 HP

 

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1991 Ford Mustang --- Fuel Injected 2.3L I-4 105 HP --- Fuel Injected 4.9L V-8 215 HP

 

1991 Chevy Camaro --- MFI Fuel Injected 2.8L V-6 140 HP --- TBI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 170 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 230 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.7L V-8 245 HP

 

1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 1.8L I-4 92 HP --- DOHC 2.0L I-4 135 HP --- DOHC 2.0L Turbo I-4 195 HP

 

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1992 Ford Mustang --- Fuel Injected 2.3L I-4 105 HP --- Fuel Injected 4.9L V-8 215 HP

 

1992 Chevy Camaro --- MFI Fuel Injected 2.8L V-6 140 HP --- TBI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 170 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.0L V-8 230 HP --- TPI Fuel Injected 5.7L V-8 245 HP

 

1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 1.8L I-4 92 HP --- DOHC 2.0L I-4 135 HP --- DOHC 2.0L Turbo I-4 195 HP

 

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NOTE: All engines mentioned 1993 and after are port fuel injected

 

1993 Ford Mustang --- 2.3L I-4 105 HP --- 4.9L V-8 205 HP --- 4.9L V-8 235 HP

 

1993 Chevy Camaro --- 3.4L V-6 160 HP --- 5.7L V-8 275 HP

 

1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 1.8L I-4 92 HP --- DOHC 2.0L I-4 135 HP --- DOHC 2.0L Turbo I-4 195 HP

 

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1994 Ford Mustang --- 3.8L V-6 145 HP --- 4.9L V-8 215 HP --- 4.9L V-8 240 HP

 

1994 Chevy Camaro --- 3.4L V-6 160 HP --- 5.7L V-8 275 HP

 

1994 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 1.8L I-4 92 HP --- DOHC 2.0L I-4 135 HP --- DOHC 2.0L Turbo I-4 195 HP

 

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1995 Ford Mustang --- 3.8L V-6 145 HP --- 4.9L V-8 215 HP --- 4.9L V-8 240 HP

 

1995 Chevy Camaro --- 3.4L V-6 160 HP --- 5.7L V-8 275 HP

 

1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- DOHC 2.0L I-4 140 HP --- DOHC 2.0L Turbo I-4 210 HP

 

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1996 Ford Mustang --- 3.8L V-6 150 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 215 HP --- DOHC 4.6L V-8 305 HP

 

1996 Chevy Camaro --- 3.8L V-6 200 HP --- 5.7L V-8 285 HP

 

1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- DOHC 2.0L I-4 140 HP --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 141 HP --- DOHC 2.0L Turbo I-4 210 HP

 

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1997 Ford Mustang --- 3.8L V-6 150 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 215 HP --- DOHC 4.6L V-8 305 HP

 

1997 Chevy Camaro --- 3.8L V-6 200 HP --- 5.7L V-8 285 HP

 

1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- DOHC 2.0L I-4 140 HP --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 141 HP --- DOHC 2.0L Turbo I-4 210 HP

 

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1998 Ford Mustang --- 3.8L V-6 150 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 225 HP --- DOHC 4.6L V-8 305 HP

 

1998 Chevy Camaro --- 3.8L V-6 200 HP --- 5.7L V-8 305 HP --- 5.7L V-8 320 HP

 

1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- DOHC 2.0L I-4 140 HP --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 141 HP --- DOHC 2.0L Turbo I-4 210 HP

 

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1999 Ford Mustang ---3.8L V-6 190 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 260 HP --- DOHC 4.6L V-8 320 HP

 

1999 Chevy Camaro --- 3.8L V-6 200 HP --- 5.7L V-8 305 HP --- 5.7L V-8 320 HP

 

1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- DOHC 2.0L I-4 140 HP --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 141 HP --- DOHC 2.0L Turbo I-4 210 HP

 

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2000 Ford Mustang --- 3.8L V-6 190 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 260 HP

 

2000 Chevy Camaro --- 3.8L V-6 200 HP --- 5.7L V-8 305 HP --- 5.7L V-8 320 HP

 

2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 147 HP --- SOHC 3.0L V-6 205 HP

 

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2001 Ford Mustang --- 3.8L V-6 193 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 260 HP --- DOHC 4.6L V-8 320 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 265 HP

 

2001 Chevy Camaro --- 3.8L V-6 200 HP --- 5.7L V-8 310 HP --- 5.7L V-8 325 HP

 

2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 147 HP --- SOHC 3.0L V-6 205 HP

 

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2002 Ford Mustang --- 3.8L V-6 193 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 260 HP

 

2002 Chevy Camaro --- 3.8L V-6 200 HP --- 5.7L V-8 310 HP --- 5.7L V-8 325 HP

 

2002 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 147 HP --- SOHC 3.0L V-6 205 HP

 

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2003 Ford Mustang --- 3.8L V-6 193 HP SOHC 4.6L V-8 260 HP --- DOHC SC 4.6L V-8 390 HP --- DOHC 4.6L V-8 305 HP

 

2003 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 147 HP --- SOHC 3.0L V-6 200 HP --- SOHC 3.0L V-6 210 HP

 

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2004 Ford Mustang --- 3.8L/3.9L V-6 193 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 260 HP --- DOHC SC 4.6L V-8 390 HP --- DOHC 4.6L V-8 305 HP

 

2004 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 147 HP --- SOHC 3.0L V-6 200 HP --- SOHC 3.0L V-6 210 HP

 

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2005 Ford Mustang --- SOHC 4.0L V-6 210 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 300 HP

 

2005 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 147 HP --- SOHC 3.0L V-6 200 HP --- SOHC 3.0L V-6 210 HP

 

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2006 Ford Mustang --- SOHC 4.0L V-6 210 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 300 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 319 HP

 

2006 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 162 HP --- SOHC 3.8L V-6 263 HP

 

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2007 Ford Mustang --- SOHC 4.0L V-6 210 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 300 HP --- DOHC SC 5.4L V-8 500 HP

 

2007 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 162 HP --- SOHC 3.8L V-6 263 HP

 

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2008 Ford Mustang --- SOHC 4.0L V-6 210 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 300 HP --- DOHC SC 5.4L V-8 500 HP --- DOHC 4.6L V-8 319 HP

 

2008 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 162 HP --- SOHC 3.8L V-6 263 HP

 

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2009 Ford Mustang --- SOHC 4.0L V-6 210 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 300 HP --- DOHC SC 5.4L V-8 500 HP --- DOHC 4.6L V-8 319 HP

 

2009 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 162 HP --- SOHC 3.8L V-6 265 HP

 

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2010 Ford Mustang --- SOHC 4.0L V-6 210 HP --- SOHC 4.6L V-8 315 HP --- DOHC SC 5.4L V-8 540 HP

 

2010 Chevy Camaro --- 3.6L V-6 304 HP --- 6.2L V-8 426 HP

 

2010 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 162 HP --- SOHC 3.8L V-6 265 HP

 

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2011 Ford Mustang --- DOHC 3.7L V-6 305 HP --- DOHC 5.0L V-8 412 HP --- DOHC SC 4.6L V-8 550 HP

 

2011 Chevy Camaro --- 3.6L V-6 312 HP --- 6.2L V-8 426 HP

 

2011 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 162 HP --- SOHC 3.8L V-6 265 HP

 

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2012 Ford Mustang --- DOHC 3.7L V-6 305 HP --- DOHC 5.0L V-8 412 HP --- DOHC SC 4.6L V-8 550 HP --- DOHC 5.0L V-8 444 HP

 

2012 Chevy Camaro --- 3.6L V-6 323 HP --- 6.2L V-8 426 HP --- SC 5.7L V-8 580 HP

 

2012 Mitsubishi Eclipse --- SOHC 2.4L I-4 162 HP --- SOHC 3.8L V-6 265 HP

 

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I will be doing a graph of each manufacturer over time for base engine, and top of the line engine... all this data will be much easier to understand then.

 

Keith

[Fanta]

You're missing the newer Lancer Ralliarts, which are very affordable turbo AWD cars....

[TexasQuest]

Mitsubishi has changed it's philosophy on cars. When they first came over here as themselves in the early 80's they branded themselves as a new exciting performance japanese car company, before any other at that time. Thruout the 90's and into the 00's they slowly changed into a mediocre japanese car company playing 4th fiddle behind honda, toyota & nissan. Now they are into the future of technology in vehicles like fully electric cars. Pretty soon the final gas-powered car will be gone (lancer) and they will be the first fully operating electric vehicle company. It's a huge risk but they seem to think it's worth it and everyone will follow suit eventually. Personally I'm sadened by this decision because the whole reason I like mitsubishi's performance oriented vehicles are now history.

[Fanta]

Also keep in mind, the Eclipse' competitor is a freaking Focus, not a Mustang.

 

You're also looking at numbers on paper. A 1993 Eclipse GSX stock for stock will keep up with a Mustang GT no problem. $5 later and it pulls ahead. $1500 and its a 400hp car near 10-second car. Horsepower on paper isn't everything. You also need to factor in their 0-60 times.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Fanta

[Technology]

And can't perform like an evo. Which you (OP) forgot about. But you are comparing apples to oranges (other than the fact that these were all cars).

[Frenchi934]

i disagree. the evo x would outrun all of the cars listed here.

[nfelge]

you're listing 580hp LS-powered Camaros against an Eclipse, of course Mitsubishi will lose.

[TexasQuest]

Mitsubishi is and has been a backwards company for awhile. They're flagship car was the Lancer Evolution and they're entry level car was also a base lancer. Most companies don't do it that way. The eclipse was never the flagship of mitsu, the Starion, 3000GT and Lancer Evo was the flagships thruout their history.

[nfelge]

maybe they will unveil something new at MOD

[TexasQuest]

Yeah a boosted electric car lol.

[Fanta]

maybe they will unveil something new at MOD

 

They should jump on the rwd bandwagon and make a 2dr turbocharged coupe - e.g. use the Tigershark engine going into the Dodge Dart since it shares blood with the 4B11T, only have more 4B11'ness to it.

[Guest]

maybe they will unveil something new at MOD

 

Yes, I heard they're gonna unveil the next generation ultra powerful electric scooter for grandma to get around the supermarket parking lot. Mitsu and Horse Power, phrases that no longer fit together. The future is crap econobox electric or hybrid cars. They jumping on the hippie clean green bs agenda.

[dem0ntsi]

Mitsubishi started going down hill when they changed the look of the Galant which was their big money maker. They need to fire their design department and change the whole look. Just look at Kia and Hyundai, not quite the quality reputation of Toyota or Honda but since their cars look great and are affordable they sell like hot cakes.. at least around here.

[TrustConquest]

The Japanese and European makes never had an interest in competing with the American "Muscle Car" scene.

 

All of their sport cars were created in competition with each others in rally and in circuit racing. (Balance of power & handling)

 

Most, if not all, muscle cars were only ever useful in a straight line. (Pure power)

 

You can't compare these cars that were made for different reasons.

[Threedoor]

Also keep in mind, the Eclipse' competitor is a freaking Focus, not a Mustang.

 

You're also looking at numbers on paper. A 1993 Eclipse GSX stock for stock will keep up with a Mustang GT no problem. $5 later and it pulls ahead. $1500 and its a 400hp car near 10-second car. Horsepower on paper isn't everything. You also need to factor in their 0-60 times.

 

HP numbers ARE everything when it comes to marketing. Mitsubishi CONSISTENTLY made better cars than the Mustang or Camaro, and CONSISTENTLY was out sold by both. Your average consumer is never going to take a wrench to their car even to change the oil...

 

I owned the fastest car in the parking lot at my Job, (2005 EVO RS 550 wheel HP, mid 11's on pump fuel) and everybody at work thought I was a lying sack of crap until we did a track day at the 1/4 mile strip. Just because YOU know low $$$ investment = huge HP gains don't think that Joe Average believes this.... but if the sticker on a EVO said "FQ 450" rather than 292 HP he would believe and consider purchasing... but right now you can get a BASE MODLE Camaro or BASE MODLE Mustang both with more HP than an EVO MR. What you think Joe Average is going to purchase?

 

Keith

[Threedoor]

And can't perform like an evo. Which you (OP) forgot about. But you are comparing apples to oranges (other than the fact that these were all cars).

 

Didn't forget the EVO. A similar comparison could be done for "high end" performance cars with the 3000GT and EVO taking part against the high end domestic competition.... but as mentioned base mustang and base camaro out HP the EVO.

 

Keith

[Fanta]

Then you're forgetting the Lancer Ralliart!

 

Keep in mind too, your average consumer isn't buying a newer Mustang or Camaro for the fact that the V6 makes 300hp. They like the looks first. The 300hp is just additional oooooh to it.

 

But also you have to take into consideration the typical American mindset of if it has a 4-cylinder it must suck for performance, this is AMURICA SON! NOTHING LESS THAN A V6, AWE HAIL, GIMME THAT THERE VEE 8 YEEEHAW! Seriously, the average US consumer has a stigma against diesel engines and that a 4-cylinder engine is anemic and not capable of out performing a bigger engine.

[verde2002]

I am completely confused by this comparison, can't make any sense of it. We are excluding the Evo and the 3000gt Turbo, why? Let's compare the base model Evo like the RS against the base model mustang or camaro. Also keep in mind a clean 2003 Evo will still fetch close to $20k where a 03' mustang you can pick up for $3k if not less. This should tell you something.

[mstieg]

Then you're forgetting the Lancer Ralliart!

 

Keep in mind too, your average consumer isn't buying a newer Mustang or Camaro for the fact that the V6 makes 300hp. They like the looks first. The 300hp is just additional oooooh to it.

 

But also you have to take into consideration the typical American mindset of if it has a 4-cylinder it must suck for performance, this is AMURICA SON! NOTHING LESS THAN A V6, AWE HAIL, GIMME THAT THERE VEE 8 YEEEHAW! Seriously, the average US consumer has a stigma against diesel engines and that a 4-cylinder engine is anemic and not capable of out performing a bigger engine.

 

^ that AND the ricer image has given 4 bangers a very bad stereotype or being cheap, noisy, frail cars with the most noticable aftermarket support being mufflers, wings, rims, and poorly done body kits. V8s are seen as man's car, I4s are a kid's starter car OR eco-cheap/slowness.

Edited July 6, 2012 by mstieg

[verde2002]

I know I'm going to get a lot of crap for this but I see V8's as a lazy engineers way of getting 300hp rather than a man's car where a 4-cylinder turbo car with only 2.0 liters putting down 300hp stock is what impresses me.

[Fanta]

I'm more intrigued at how Dodge, Ford, Subaru/Toyota/Scion and Hyundai are all competing for the mid-20k young adult performance market with the Dodge Dart ( turbo rwd sedan with a 6spd ), Focus ST, BRZ/FR-S/GT-86 and Genesis Coupe. They ALL are targeting the same market, but all are doing it differently.

 

You have Ford with the V6 Mustang and the 2013 Ford Focus ST - a 250hp turbocharged 6spd 4dr hatchback

Dodge with the 2013 Dodge Dart rwd sedan with it's 2.0L Tigershark engine 6spd, which shares blood with the EVO X 4B11T and Hyundai Genesis Theta engine.

Subaru/Toyota/Scion with the BRZ/GT86/FRS, a pure driving machine that is based around chassis rigidity and low center of gravity. The thing is awesome from an engineering standpoint.

Hyundai Genesis Coupe - basically the car that instigated it all essentially back in 2010 with a mid-20k performance rwd coupe. An affordable sports car, new, to a young adult.

Chevy with their v6 300hp Camaro.

 

They're all basically targeting the same consumer market and price point. I'm intrigued to see if Nissan and Mitsubishi decide to join in or not.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Fanta

[Frenchi934]

Hp has nothing to do with what cars sell. You dont see many cts-v's out there do you? Its got more hp than everything in its price range.

 

Performance doesnt have much to do with sales either. Historically, Camaro has outperformed and sold less than mustang for any given year.

 

Its all about marketing. I had my car parked in the parking lot at atlanta motor speedway yesterday for a fireworks show. a factory v6 mustang with some wheels pulls up and parks 2 cars away and I'll be darned if 2 people didnt pull out their cell phones and take pictures of that pile of dump.

 

Theres a reason every woman in the country thinks a mustang is a fast car. You could tell 90% of people that an evo has this that and the other and they'd STILL associate the mustang as being a faster car.

 

Personally, i like owning something exponentially faster and cooler than most people even know exists.

[NikoFab]

I know I'm going to get a lot of crap for this but I see V8's as a lazy engineers way of getting 300hp rather than a man's car where a 4-cylinder turbo car with only 2.0 liters putting down 300hp stock is what impresses me.

no crap coming from me...that's one of the reasons I bought a new Eclipse GSX back in '97. The fact that, when stock, it could literally "play" with a mustang V-8 was awesome. To say nothing of the fact that after a measely additional $5K, I could whoop its butt.

 

Another $7K after that, it was one hell of a machine that would hand with any meet.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Nikolaya

[tankbob]

I would agree that mitsubishi has gone down the drain in past years after what they have done to the new evos. But comparing the newer eclipse to muscle cars doesnt seem like the way Id portray it.

[Fanta]

I would agree that mitsubishi has gone down the drain in past years after what they have done to the new evos.

 

What in sam's hill are you smoking son? The new Evos are freaking beasts.