Hawk wiring of the ignition system - It's ALIVE

[87quest_stv]

Ok guys Ive got a few questions. After spending most of my time on the net today trying to find information on the ignition wiring of the hawk with the bosch ignitor, and magna dizzy, I'm about at my wits end of trying to sort this out. All the posts that i've found have been from yrs ago. all the images and links to photos or wiring diagrams have been taken down or deleted or don't exist anymore. according the hawk wiring diagram and things from chiplee's posts and things from shelby;s posts I have conflicting information from the what the wiring diagram states.

 

On the diagram I need to wire the magna dizzy for Hall effect pickup. So the diagram says Use A1 which is green(G) to the pickup. and the white (W) is a sensor ground. Then the red/black (RB) is coming from the sensor +5V A6 terminal this wire A1 is a shielded wire with a green and a white wire in it.

 

At the bottom of the wiring diagram is A5 or ignition output red wire , Also in a shielded combo with a black wire.

 

according to chiplee's help file :

Get a Bosch ignitor module (Saab 900) PN 9222067024 This is the one the Hawk manufacture always uses, however just about any Bosch module will work. If you find one that looks anything like this get the number off of it and call efi hardware they'll be able to get you the wiring diagram for just about any bosch ignitor, and they're happy to do it.

Pin 16--------------(-coil wire)

Pin 15--------------(+coil wire)

Pin 7---------------(ignition output from Hawk)

Pin 3---------------(ignition ground)

*NOTE* this assumes the coil has a power supply. This module takes it's power from the hawk.

 

Does A5 ® go to pin 7? and the black wire with it go to pin 3? If so then how do A1 (G) and (W) hook up to the distributor and where do the + , - coil wires come from? The actual coil pos and neg terminal? I'm so confused and without seeing a wiring diagram of something that is hooked up and running is very confusing.

 

http://www.getyasumminimotos.com/Conquest/HAWKWiringDiagram.jpg

Edited December 27, 2011 by 87quest_stv

[chiplee]

ooof, it's gonna' take me a while to get my brain wrapped around this one, but I'll take a look at it tomorrow.

[87quest_stv]

Ok Shelby has helped me with some pictures. It looks like the A1 G wire goes to the dizzy harness signal wire. The W wire +shield goes to the ground on the dizzy harness.

The A5 R wire goes to pin 7 on the module and the black wire + shield(that was bundles with the red wire) goes to pin 3 on the module.

 

My only confusion is the power source for the dizzy harness and where the wires come off the coil.

for power source on the dizzy harness It looks like you need a 12V source that is good for both switched and start positions. This you then use a 1k Ohm resistor to pull the power down to 5V

My question on this is. on the wiring diagram. The A6 R/B wire is a 5V power source. I confirmed it with a volt meter. So can I just use this R/B A6 wire instead of using a 12V source with a resistor to pull it down to a 5V source?

 

Here's a pic of my coil. Do i just bypass the wiring harness crap and connect the wires to the ignitor module? Just as long as I keep a 12v source on the coil?

 

http://www.getyasumminimotos.com/Conquest/coil.JPG

Edited December 25, 2011 by 87quest_stv

[Lizzord30]

I am running the hawk with Magna dist but a different Ignitor so cant help you with wiring for yours. but I will say that I mounted my ignitor onto a aluminum plate then put a old Pentium heat sink on that to help dissipate the heat..... it was getting so hot I decided to upgrade the heat sink lol got a heat sink from a dual core AMD to go on next before i get it running for the spring. But I would make sure you have a good contact for the ignitor to dissipate some heat, and think its not a bad idea to add a heat sink also. Remember that should also be grounded, just to make sure I added a strap from body to the ignitor.

 

For the 12v power supply of the Ignitor I ran a wire and a new relay for that and injectors. With a fuse.

[87quest_stv]

This is what I did with mine. I;m still not sure I have this thing hooked up right. I hooked it up how I thought it should go.

on the ignitor I have:

Pin 16: - coil (ran a wire from the neg side of the coil to this)

Pin15: + coil (ran a wire from the pos side of the coil to this)

Pin 7: A5 red

Pin 3: A5 black. ( this is the black wire that came with the shielded A5 wire.)

 

 

 

Lizzord did you run a 1k resistor between the 12V source and the signal wire on the dizzy clip? I had an extra red/black wire from A6 which is +5 volts and am wondering if this will work instead of

using the resistor?

 

 

 

 

http://www.getyasumminimotos.com/Conquest/ignitor%20coil.JPG

http://www.getyasumminimotos.com/Conquest/ignitor%20heat%20sink.JPG

[Lizzord30]

Ok just looked at my car, the Dizzy doesnt get 12v gets a 5v with the resistor 1k Dont use 12v. and that is how I did it. Now the Ignitor needs 12v and for your pictures make sure your body of the ignitor has a good ground what i did was add a strap on the front side where the stud comes out. My ignitor is a 4 wire so posibly little different. What I would do is leave the dizzy out and turn by hand till your getting what seams like a decent signal on the pc. I think when turn the wheel it got up to like.... 1500rpms or something like that and if you have cap rotor and everything on should get spark (but be careful to not get shocked) and have a plugs out so can see them sparking. should see all of them going at seperate times. you will likely need to remove your valve cover to get the distributor lined up well and back in. (I have done it both ways and usualy is faster just removing the valve cover.)

[87quest_stv]

I have a 4 wire ignitor also. I just don't have the negative wire hooked up to the terminal yet in the pic.

I have everything hooked up now and the ignitor and resistor is grounded to th body real good. I made sure to get bare metal on metal.

 

I'm having some issues with the initial timing of the magna dizzy. I've rotated it out 180 degs like everyone has said to do. When I line it up and get it set in it looks like it's lining up with #1 pole on the cap. But I guess My questions is, Do i set the engine at TDC or -10BTDC before inserting the dizzy. I had it set at TDC before lining it up. But when I tried to start. it would just crank. Then pop as I turn the key off. Kinda frustrated atm.

[87quest_stv]

This is how I mounted my ignitor. I made a bracket out of a aluminum tubing then mounted it up under the driver head light assembly

 

http://www.getyasumminimotos.com/Conquest/ignitormounted.JPG

[Lizzord30]

i would crank it over without the plugs in and wihtout fuel and use the timeing light to check while it cranks. Put engine at TDC then figue where you want your number one cyl to line up with then aim the rotor at the cap place for that one then just keep the same fireing order. and remember the rotor turns when its pushed in so needs to be after its pushed in where it lines with the cly 1 on the cap. Tell you truth its always been a little of a pain for me to do it lol but just trial and error and get it to work. once you have spark and crank it over and its at 10 TDC (assoming you have the starting and base both set to 10TDC in the hawk) then add fuel and see what it does. Sometimes its tricky to get the right mixture to start but usualy once you get it started then its alot easyer to make adjustments from their.

[87quest_stv]

I pulled the dizzy out and pulled the plugs out then turned it by hand. It seemed to be firing in the right order. 1,3,4,2. But When I stopped turning the little gear whichever plug fired last. would then fire a second time. After the gear had stopped. Any clue what causes this?

[87quest_stv]

once you have spark and crank it over and its at 10 TDC (assoming you have the starting and base both set to 10TDC in the hawk)

 

My crank start timing says 9.8 BTDC on the ECU. You said in the quote above 10TDC did you mean BTDC?

[Lizzord30]

Sorry yes BTDC And if you mean at the end of when you spin it and it stops almost it goes twice, that seams to be normal or at lest mine did that maybe is getting rid of any residual spark. (altho not totally sure i understand what your saying).

[87quest_stv]

So I don't want to set that start timing to 0? then have the ecu set the run timing to what it should be after it started? Seems it's just not phased right.

 

EDIT: Yes after I stop spinning the little gear maybe a sec later the spark plug sparks again. Like you said maybe discharging extra stuff. But this leads me to believe the dist isn't phased right with the ecu because when I crank it 3-4 times and let off, it will POP. LIke that last extra discharge ignited some fuel.

Edited December 27, 2011 by 87quest_stv

[Lizzord30]

under starting set that to 10 BTDC (actualy i used that untill i got it running better and raised it some to get it higher idle when cold but thats becuse i dont use a ICS) its important what the dash on the hawk says is what your actual timing is at. I would adjust the distributor little to get that but should be close if you have it at right spot.

[87quest_stv]

Do you have your output mode under ignition set on dwell or pulse? I have mine set on dwell Edited December 27, 2011 by 87quest_stv

[87quest_stv]

Ok, I hooked up a timing light to see where I was cranking. It seems I'm at about 30-40 ATDC, can't get the distributor to line up where it needs to be. Going to reread a post about removing the cam gear and clocking it.

[TainterRacing]

Dont move the cam gear.

 

You need to pull the distributor out and put it back in need to move the gear on it I cant rember what way but move it one over I would all so have the valve cover off so you can make sure you put it one tooth over.

[87quest_stv]

I have the distributor in and timed to 10 BTDC. I think the injectors aren't synced with the dizzy.

I had the car running with an unmodified stock dizzy. I wasn't driving it because I knew the vacuum advance wouldn't work

I decided to go to the magna dizzy because of the ecu i'm running (hawk) and the adjustability of the magna dizzy

I have the hawk program set to HALL and the green wire for the pickup going into A1. is this right? or do I need to have it in A2?

 

When I had it running with the unmodded stock dizzy The green pickup wire was going into A2 on the ecu.

[87quest_stv]

Maybe I called it the wrong thing. I was referring to the little gear on the dizzy. removing it and putting in a different whole. (mine has 4 total)

as shown in this post here

http://www.b2600turbo.com/turck_magnadizzy.htm

[87quest_stv]

Ok here's the final product. took a couple times stabbing the distributor so it times right. I also found that I loose connection on my 12v source going to the dizzy harness.

Got the distributor set up so there is full adjustability for initial timing. once it was running I dialed it in, then let the hawk take over. once warmed up. It ran like a kitten.

 

As for my question a couple posts above about the A1 or A2 wiring. I left the green wire in the A1 slot. and left the program timing on HALL with dwell output.

 

Thanks everyone who helped out.

Edited December 27, 2011 by 87quest_stv

[Shelby]

the problem with the diagram is it's for an aussie igniter and we did not have them over here , so you can't go by it 100%, but the igniter has to have a 12 volt power supply to it,, the hawk only provides the 5 volt signal , the dist pick up uses the 5 volt signal not the igniter

[87quest_stv]

Yea. I got that squared away. I ran a 12V source to the ignitor,

 

I ended up with : (also need to make sure the ignitor is attached to a heat sink with diode electric white goo. and mount that to the chassis for a good ground.)

 

Pin 16: coil - ( ran a lead from the negative terminal on the coil)

Pin 15: coil + 12V (ran a lead from the positive terminal on the coil)

Pin 7: A5 red

Pin 5: A5 black + shield

 

then on the dizzy harness.

looking at the harness with the retaining clip to the left

 

 

{} - Ground - used white +shield (comes with A1 wire)

{} - Signal - used green \ (comes with A1 wire)

{} - Not Used

{} - 5V - used extra A6 black/red +5V wire from ECU

Edited December 30, 2011 by 87quest_stv

[87quest_stv]

Just an update. I spent pretty much all last night, about 5 hours or so, shrink wrapping and protecting all my wires real good. In the process of doing that.

I went with my gut that the extra A6 +5V power lead from the ecu that I had could be hooked up to the dizzy for the 5V power source it needed. Instead of

using a 12V source and resistor to pull the voltage down. Works real nice this way, and cleaner too. Engine bay is real neat, with no wires poking out. I'll take some pics tomorrow, well later this morning anyhow. I'm real excited about this. Haven't been able to drive my car for about 8yrs. Just need to tame the fuel delivery down a bit and it will be ready to go.

[Lizzord30]

Look forward to hearing about smokey burn outs lol!

[87quest_stv]

Look forward to hearing about smokey burn outs lol!

 

Hehe, did a couple of those yesterday. It really spools up quick with that 12a on it. Slips the clutch in 2nd. gonna have to install the new clutch I got for it.