cad Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 breakdown.... i think i somehow burned the #4 and #3 pistons ... i need to clean them up and see whats going on .... 2 of the headstuds had worked their way loose which was causing me to lift the head off the block at 14lbs of boost and pressurizing the cooling system above 8lbs heres some pics #4http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/theresnothingicanchange/2011-11-15150248.jpg#3http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/theresnothingicanchange/2011-11-15150256.jpg#2http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/theresnothingicanchange/2011-11-15150304.jpg#1http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/theresnothingicanchange/2011-11-15150323.jpg am i right or does someone else know whats going on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGC Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 The pits in the Piston tops and edges looks like Detonation due to lean conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Detonation and/or overheating ( even cylinder temps can go sky high with detonation) can cuase the studs to loosen, head expands greatly then cools and shrinks making studs loose. 14lb with what turbo? factory boost gauge? Wideband gauge installed? Dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markhansenconquest Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 good info dad, i love this site !!!!! and all the great pic's showing what's really going on .(a picture's worth a thousand words).,also the people with all there wisdom !!! telling you what your seeing so you can gain wisdom for yourself.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Detonation and/or overheating ( even cylinder temps can go sky high with detonation) can cuase the studs to loosen, head expands greatly then cools and shrinks making studs loose. 14lb with what turbo? factory boost gauge? Wideband gauge installed? Dadreally close to stock ....egr deleteand 2.5 inch straight pipe exhaustsligtly better intercooler and no name bovim presuming 12a, and no wideband also, is it just me, or do those look like aftermarket pistons? i dont see any arrows or stamps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cad Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) Detonation and/or overheating ( even cylinder temps can go sky high with detonation) can cuase the studs to loosen, head expands greatly then cools and shrinks making studs loose. 14lb with what turbo? factory boost gauge? Wideband gauge installed? Dadstock turbo with a manual boost controlleraftermarket boost gauge autolitewhats a wideband? is that the afr gauge? i dont have one of those yet im presuming 12a, and no wideband also, is it just me, or do those look like aftermarket pistons? i dont see any arrows or stamps supposedly the stock ones had issues in this motor so the previous owner installed some aftermarket forged ones... he showed me reciepts from a machine shop showing that this block had been machined and had pistons crank and connecting rods were installed but could not furnish a receipt for the rotating assymbly itself the legitamacy of that is beyond me Edited November 16, 2011 by cad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 stock turbo with a manual boost controlleraftermarket boost gauge autolitewhats a wideband? is that the afr gauge? i dont have one of those yetdefinitely look into getting one, make sure its a wideband not a narrowband, you will have to get a bung welded into your exhaust about 3 ft down stream of the turbo, but it gives you an idea of if your way off on fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cad Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 whats the difference . wide vs narrowband? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwolf Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Narrowband will only tell you if you are lean or rich so basically less than 14.7:1 or above 14.7:1 A wideband will actually tell you your accurate afr Narrowband is pretty much useless....wideband is worth every dime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cad Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 i remember seeing an afr spot on my turbotimer .... its not hooked up i wonder if it is wide or narrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 i remember seeing an afr spot on my turbotimer .... its not hooked up i wonder if it is wide or narrow?depends on the timer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Air fuel ration gauge will use a seperate O2 sensor. This way you can monitor your air/fuel ratio. It will show if you are starting to go lean,,, eg start raising boost and see the number increase. that way you can decrease the boost if nesc. You might get a plugged fuel filter and start to starve it for fuel.. you would have no idea it was happening without the gauge. IMHO- a wide band gauge should be the first thing to install before raising boost over stock levels. Dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cad Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) cleaning up the pistons i found a part number .... anyone know how to cross reference it?http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/theresnothingicanchange/imagejpeg_2_5.jpg oh and it wasnt burned its just alot of discolored crap on it Edited November 17, 2011 by cad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Its oil and too rich. Burnt oil turns to carbon. Be glad its not lead deposits from someone running leaded race fuel. You've got a motor built for a turbe three times the size of what you have. What did you do to it? I'm going to guess you did nothing wrong and this is just another example of ARP studs that come loose that should have been thread locked into the block and the torque instructions were misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cad Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 yeah this is my first time looking under the valve cover and in this deep your supposed to threadlock the arp's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Wiseco pistons K555M92 it's the odd bore of 92 MM ( .035) if you need rings you have to use wiseco rings # 9200XX Dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Did you read the ARP instructions? Thread lock is mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cad Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 no as mentioned this is my first time into this engine ... i didnt know i had headstuds till monday night ... so no instructions were included with the motor.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Here's basically about the torque wrench and using the lube under the turning surfaces -the nut and washer. http://arp-bolts.com/pages/technical_installation.shtml Here's the specific instructions for the head studs http://arp-bolts.com/instructions/207-4202.pdf Its "suggested" using thread locker in the block and from seeing loose studs or nuts or whatever, if I were you I'd put some on the threads in the block and it won't take much. It also says finger tight then I'd back off 1/2 turn but you have to do this when you are ready to tighten them down as thread locker cures in the absense of air so you can't put them in and wait until tomorrow to do the head because the threads only seal on one side and that's the side that makes contact when the stud is being pulled up. The holes need to be clean and not have oil or coolant in them, use some solvent and an air gun or a straw and a someway to dry it out. The reason for the tightening pattern is just so you start in the middle and zig zag your way out to each end if not the head doesn't mash down in a way that seals better. Ever roll something across a loose carpet and see how it can get the carpet loose in front of the wheels? That's the same kind of thing happening or might happen and is the reason for the pattern. If you don't have ARPs moly lube you can use 30W oil and their old instructions had that included and that uses a torque value of 120ftlbs, they have deleted that from the new instructions they want you to use their lube but their new formulation for that lube increased that value from 85 to 90ftlbs. I've seen and heard too many loose ARP studs stories and its been a year or so since I put any in but they'll get thread locked from now on. If the head didn't swell up so bad and the vibrations from those deep holes and then some detonation wasn't rattling them around and the recent cracked blocks there's something those have in common and its all those ARP studs. I've never seen a head bolt come loose and it only has threads to come loose on one end. Looks like that had a 9116 gasket on it from the crosshatch pattern or one similar design, you have to get all that cleaned off down to bare metal on both surfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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