RobZ Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) hey guys i just got my 87 going again after some of ur help with my dist. and timing issues. now the problem is i did a tps/isc reset got her dialed in and noticed smoke from the rear of the motor at the exhaust mani gasket area. so i thought maybe bad valve cover seal so i pulled the cover to find water in the oil on the head!?!? the car sounds good its not smoking at all out of the exhaust so maybe a crack in the head or head gasket?? anything you guys might think will help. want to make sure i go in the right direction here. thanks in advance...... Edited November 4, 2011 by RobZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Check the oil dip stick level. Is it way above normal? Do you see a brown milky color in the oil? Has the coolant level gone down a lot? If so you may have a blown head gasket,a cracked cylinder head or both. Did the car overheat prior to this happening? If not, it may be just a comprimised head gasket. Pictures would help. Bill Edited November 1, 2011 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) oil level is normal.coolant level is normal. its a milky brown under the oil cap on top of the head bolts and just a tiny bit on the dip stick. she wasnt over heating at all. i was originally thinking head gasket bad but then maybe a small crack in the head since it doesnt seem like alot of coolant in the oil and no smoke. i will get pics up soon thanks caliber.... also i just recently got the car running with ur guys help. this was a kids car that didnt know what he was doing. so im not sure if he overheated prior to me getting it Edited November 1, 2011 by RobZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbrad511 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 If the oil isn't milky it may just be condensation. I know it's common around here, especially this time of year. Best way to find out is to change the oil, something cheap, and see if the ugly reappears. If the level's not overfull I'd think it's probably ok. The smoke may have just been something burning off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 so i went and bought some cheap autozone oil to check for condensation as vbrad suggested changed oil and filter let her run for a couple mins. and same thing lil milky under cap on the headbolts lil on dipstick end etc. but it does look now like my oil level is going up which means must be coolant draining in there!!!! still no smoke and still sounds strong? took some pics will upload in the morning.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starionHG2.jpgis that enought to let water in lolhttp://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starionHG.jpga lil closer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starionblock.jpghttp://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starionweld.jpglooks like its been repaired not sure if this is ok or not?http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starionrtv.jpgthis plug on the back was literally filled in flush with black RTV???????http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starioncrack.jpgfound this good size crack in the turbo housing (hot side) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 You never noticed a miss? Time for a shop to look at the head. Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 dad, i just got her running yesterday and sounded ok til i saw smoke on the back of the exhaust mani. pulled the valve cover found coolant! so im at this stage now lol. so you think i should still get the head checked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Absolutely... needs milled at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 i was just lookin at your parts link. well you seem to have it all lol. what does a mill generally cost. should i check in town or are you able to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 You should be able to get it looked at local- ask your friends what shops they would use. Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 When you had the head off, did you see if it was cracked? Coolant coming in from a crack in the combustion chamber blows out the exhaust. A crack under the cam you should be able to see. The coolant getting into the oil can come from the timing cover. Do you have a way to pressurize your radiator? If you did that with the valve cover off I think you'll see where its coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 indiana, the head is still off currently.i pulled the arm assembly off the top and looked for cracks under the cam and it looks really good. but i dont know exactly how to check the chamber and the inside of the head. on a side note when i pulled this head off yesterday the PO had to have removed it before cause of the black gasket maker all on the head gasket!? and on the back of the head where the black plastic plug thing is (dont know its proper name) lol. but the head itself looks really clean. when i wiped away the oil residue with a rag it is schockingly clean like maybe it was worked on before POSSIBLY. i will post some pics of the head and let you guys look and give me your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starionhd1.jpghttp://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starionhd2.jpghttp://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starionhd3.jpghttp://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starionhd4.jpghttp://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starionhd5.jpgi cant find any visible cracks personally but it doesnt mean there isnt any internally right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Another thing i remembered to add was as soon as i got all the bolts out it took virtually no pressure to break the head free i leaned over with my hand on it and it slid! is that normal? and they looked to be original head bolts which from reading on here it seems to always be replace them or upgrade them to ARP!? just so you guys know a lil more info on this head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 so i was reading professor quests JVE thread (Lots of pics) He was showing that a head generally cracks at #2 #3 so decided to look at mine. wire brushed away some soot and found this!!!!http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/87starionturbo/starionhdcrack.jpgkinda of an unclear photo but 2 distinct cracks on #3 didnt take a pic of #2 but a very faint crack there as well!!I guess its time to hunt down a new head.. Awesome. i guess this is what you get when the PO says it was REBUILT lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) That head has been at least cleaned and maybe its a reman'd unit. Do the places between the valves appear to be welded and ground again? Is there a dowel in the block on the left front and right rear bolt holes? If not, there's no way a headgasket will remain sealed for long. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000128.JPG The cracks in the head wouldn't have caused coolant to be in the oil that quick. The blown gasket perhaps but at this point, I'd take the manifolds and timing cover off and start over. Its just too much trouble to have to do it again if there's a problem. I'd make sure the #3 main bearing cap is aligned too. Here's how and why: http://www.b2600turbo.com/thrust_bearings.htm Edited November 3, 2011 by Indiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 yea definately staring over now indiana. i got it this far apart why not lol. in a pic above i showed a weld on the head in a groove and it does appear to be some grinding between the valves. there is NO pins on the motor as shown in your pic. i think the PO thought he would do all this work on his own and claims a rebuilt head and motor lol to have just failed on me with no more than 20 mins of this thing running in my posession!! so i agree indiana apart it all goes and start from the bottom up haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 So INDY probably a silly question but is there any use to take this head to a shop and try to have it repaired or just hunt down a new one? ive met up with Scotty (SOTTY) here in town and im sure he has a good used one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Just ask him what he thinks of it. If the cracks are coming back or someone attempted to hide the cracks by grinding and its not grinder marks from a rewelded head, which I've seen, then I'd not bother to use that head again. If you just want a bare head to swap your valve train to here's one:. http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-AND-CHRYSLER-2-6L-FORKLIFT-CYLINDER-HEAD-81-90-/170392253866?hash=item27ac2b75aa&item=170392253866&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 ok ill check with scotty and let him take a look. that is actually pretty cheap for a head. thought i would be spending alot more. thanks INDY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobZ Posted November 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 i pulled the timing cover and sure enough the water port in there was leaking! the timing cover and the part of the oil pan gasket exposed was all rtv and looks to have failed. is this where the BSE kit should come in while its opened up. anything else i should check for also. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markhansenconquest Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) buy yourself a good india stone from norton and stone block head surface dont get a cheap one from harbor frieght they are made of sandstone they break down than there not flat .You will see high spots, use motor oil when you stone head ,clean up with brake cleaner!!!. look at dads web site and see the high spots.on the how to do a rebuild thread (im tool and diemaker)and no the stone dosnt come from india thats just the name of it.(india stone light brown in color medium grit. Edited November 4, 2011 by markhansenconquest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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